Electric hook up (1 Viewer)

[mrsrogers]

Posted Today at 12:24 by mrsrogers
We are completely new to motorhoming, we've booked our first mini trip for this weekend, the camp site says "electric hook up", do we have to pay for the electricity or is it included within the campsite nightly fee?

 

[joner8888]

Usually included in the price

 

[gozomike]

Hi

It's normaly included but a few sites do charge extra.

Mike

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[rainbow chasers]

If you look at site charges on their website (or Tariff) then you will see pitch fee £8 EHU - £2 - so tenner a night for eample.

Some like to posh it all up by calling them 'serviced' pitches. The basic 'serviced' pitch will have EHU and maybe a tap, Fully serviced has EHU, Tap, Waste, and Aerial point.

 

[dylan]

As the others have said usually included in the pitch price but if you don't want electric tell campsite when you book or when you turn up. :thumb:

 

[Sidney]

The most expensive charge I've seen is £5.00 for a night - which I find hard to justify!

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[scotjimland]

The most expensive charge I've seen is £5.00 for a night - which I find hard to justify!

Do you think so.. ?

Camp site pays about 15p per unit .. so it is quite easy in winter to use £5 .. that's about 33 units

in theory a camper could us 24 hrs x 3 kwh x 15p = £10.80

being more realistic.. 12 hrs at 3kw = 36kwh x 15p = £5.40 ..

Of course in summer the use is less.. the site owner hopes to break even on his leccy bill over the year..

A campsite cannot charge separately for electricity unless it is metered and charged at cost price...
What they can do is offer a choice of pitch with or without EHU .. hence the all inclusive pitch price..

 

[Sidney]

Do you think so.. ?

Camp site pays about 15p per unit .. so it is quite easy in winter to use £5 .. that's about 33 units

in theory a camper could us 24 hrs x 3 kwh x 15p = £10.80

being more realistic.. 12 hrs at 3kw = 36kwh x 15p = £5.40 ..

Of course in summer the use is less.. the site owner hopes to break even on his leccy bill over the year..

A campsite cannot charge separately for electricity unless it is metered and charged at cost price...
What they can do is offer a choice of pitch with or without EHU .. hence the all inclusive pitch price..

Would many motorhome users have a constant load of 1500watts over a 24 hour period? Are your sure that's realistic?

If a campsite makes it possible for a caravan or tent to turn up with halogen heaters and fan heaters to heat their awning/tent why should I be supplementing them? Camp site owners could change the MCB to a 6 amp (restricting the use to 1.3Kw) cut the price and save the environment. That's realistic.

Regardless £5.00 per night is opportunistic at best, but I'd call it something else.

 

[MikeD]

Cost of site 240v supply

Do you think so.. ?

Camp site pays about 15p per unit .. so it is quite easy in winter to use £5 .. that's about 33 units

in theory a camper could us 24 hrs x 3 kwh x 15p = £10.80

being more realistic.. 12 hrs at 3kw = 36kwh x 15p = £5.40 ..

Of course in summer the use is less.. the site owner hopes to break even on his leccy bill over the year..

A campsite cannot charge separately for electricity unless it is metered and charged at cost price...
What they can do is offer a choice of pitch with or without EHU .. hence the all inclusive pitch price..

I suspect that the actual cost of electricity is only a small part of it.

Putting the system in and periodic requirements of testing/maintenance etc make up a huge percentage of cost to a small site.

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[Parcverger]

As a small site owner, I can say that both Scotjimland and MikeD are correct. The initial cost of installing ehu's around our site was substantial, and we had to pay 14.000€ (mostly to EDF) to provide the hardware for a constant 16A supply. We now have a charge for the base supply included on our bill every month, and here in France our electricity bills include not just site usage but also contributions for local public supplies (eg, streetlighting). All work on electrics has to be carried out by prefessionals, and the independant annual certificate for our electrical installations costs around 400€.

We have looked at the cost of metering every pitch (we have 25) and this worked out at between 4K€ and 5K€ - can we justify this?oh:

In terms of usage, it is not unusual for guests to have more than one heater going during cold periods, many left on all day, and do not forget that many use air conditioning during the summer!

We quote an all-in cost because this allows our included charge for ehu to attract a lower VAT rate (7% this year, 10% next year) than if we quote it separately (19.6% this year, 20% next year). Well over 90% of our guests want ehu, so it makes sense to do it that way, but we can reduce the pitch price for those who do not.

There is no easy answer. We keep our prices as low as possible, and Funsters get a disciount that offers better terms than ACSI (we are too small for them, as they require 40 touring pitches). We will always look hard at costs, but can anyone see electricity prices coming down?

Bob
www.parcverger.com

 

[scotjimland]

Would many motorhome users have a constant load of 1500watts over a 24 hour period? Are your sure that's realistic?

If a campsite makes it possible for a caravan or tent to turn up with halogen heaters and fan heaters to heat their awning/tent why should I be supplementing them? Camp site owners could change the MCB to a 6 amp (restricting the use to 1.3Kw) cut the price and save the environment. That's realistic.

Regardless £5.00 per night is opportunistic at best, but I'd call it something else.

The EHU is supplied to each pitch regardless of unit.. be it caravan, camper van or American RV ... why single out caravans ? I have never used a 230v heater in my awning .. but I have used space heaters to keep an RV warm.. 24/7.

Are you saying that motorhomers don't use space 230v space heaters, kettles, toasters, etc etc .. and only use LPG and that RVs don't have washing machines and tumble driers, ice machines, roof air con units etc.. ?

Cutting the supply to 6amps is a different argument ... personally I would prefer all sites to have metered electric.. Them that use the most, pay the most.. and those who are frugal pay the least..

If you don't use or need leccy go to sites that don't have it ..

 

[Roryboys Dad]

Isn't a metered EHU a fairer system for all?

A couple of Euros to give either an amount of electricity (1 kw ?) or a length of time (2 hours ?) would encourage users to resrict their usage or have to pay more.

Least, or no, amount used is cheapest and those that want or need to use more will have to pay for the privilage.

If the site owner is putting in, or replacing, old hook ups then the extra cost should be relatively small but would be appreciated by those more thrifty people - and higher users could hardly begrudge paying more - tha don't get owt for nowt!

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[Sidney]

Isn't a metered EHU a fairer system for all?

Yes that would be fair. But you cannot install a meter and charge more than the cost of the net product. This was put in place to stop private landlords installing meters into bedsits and flats and charging far in excess of what was reasonable. ipso-facto there is no incentive for the land owner to install meters - because the cost of the infrastructure, running cables and installing meters will not be recouped.

I can go back nearly thirty years and tell you about my landlord who had a coin meter set at 50p per kwh in a bedsit. He could argue that his charge covered more than the cost of electricity... i.e. putting electricity into the bedsit and testing/maintenance took away some of the profit of renting out some space. Equally I'm sure many private landlords found the costs of inspecting gas appliances on rented property ate into their profitability too.

Despite the protestations I'll re-iterate... I find a charge of £5.00 for electricity hard to justify.

 

[olley]

On the site we are on at the moment the meters are incorporated into the EHU box's, so the owner goes around reading them. You are allowed 100kh per week in the pitch price. We use around 70-80Kh a week, running on electric for everything but the heating and hob. If I used the electric for heating as well I would expect that to rise to at least 300Kh.

Sitting in your motorhome/RV with loads of jumpers on is not my idea of relaxing, and with all the electrical stuff we have nowadays I can't see energy usage going down. Heating is by far our biggest energy use, they need to be better insulated so you don't need to use so much energy. That doesn't necessarily mean just thicker walls but more modern types of insulation than polystyrene.

Ian

 

[scotjimland]

The most expensive charge I've seen is £5.00 for a night - which I find hard to justify!

Despite the protestations I'll re-iterate... I find a charge of £5.00 for electricity hard to justify.

Was this, UK or EU site ?

as you are aware it is illegal to have a separate fixed charge for leccy.... it must either be included in the pitch price .. (in which case you don't actually know what the charge is) or metered..

Regulator guidance .. an example

Administration / maintenance costs: as example 1

On average, 280 of the pitches are occupied for a 25 week season - 7000 "pitch
weeks".
Total expenditure on electricity (including standing charges) for the last year was
£16,500, of which £6,500 was for use in the club, offices etc.
Therefore, only £10,000 worth of electricity was effectively resold to tenants and
is subject to the maximum price rule. [HI]The remainder will be recovered separately
(e.g. through pitch fees).[/HI]
In order to set fees for the next season, the site operator decides to add a 2 per
cent inflation factor.
Maximum price for electricity:
£10,000 x 102% = £1.46 pw
7,000 "pitch weeks
Administration / maintenance costs: as example 1
Please note these examples are for guidance only and[HI] resellers should use
methodology that suits best as long as the Maximum Resale pass-through
rule is adhered to[/HI].

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[Wildman]

The most expensive charge I've seen is £5.00 for a night - which I find hard to justify!

Do you really think so. Our CL (5 vans) does not have electricery, the powers that be want £10,000 to install it. Now that will only be the supply, the EHU points will cost a lot extra but forgetting that and forgetting that people actually use leccy that I would be charged for then I need to get 2000 van nights paid just to cover the installation that would take around 10 years during which time I would also lose interest on the cash had it been left in the bank. So looked at realistically £5 is not such a rip off after all though few would choose to pay it. A motorhome is self contained and with the addition of a solar panel does not need to be reliant on an umbilical life support system. If you cannot do without all of the comforts of home then maybe touring and stopping at B&B's is the way to go. Or get an Rv with a huge built in Genny.

 

[Sidney]

Owners can charge whatever they want for a pitch with electricity but if the charge is £5.00 I don't think I'll be using those facilities for long or at all.

How on do I calculate the price of electricity = cost of a pitch with elecricity minus cost pitch without electricity. It's not rocket science is it

I know my use over a 24 hour period would be around 3-5kw - gas heating, led lights, low energy kettle, LCD TV etc. Why set a fee based on the worse case scenario?

UK or abroad - who's charging the most? From my own travels I've seen £5 fees in the UK but never seen 6€ in France or Spain.

Please don't think you're paraphrasing me by using the words "Rip off" :Angry: I said I found £5 p/n hard to justify. I'm not Jeremy Vine!

 

[Wildman]

Please don't think you're paraphrasing me by using the words "Rip off" :Angry: I said I found £5 p/n hard to justify. I'm not Jeremy Vine!

my apologies if it sounded like that it was not intended to be so.

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[oldun]

Would many motorhome users have a constant load of 1500watts over a 24 hour period? Are your sure that's realistic?

If a campsite makes it possible for a caravan or tent to turn up with halogen heaters and fan heaters to heat their awning/tent why should I be supplementing them? Camp site owners could change the MCB to a 6 amp (restricting the use to 1.3Kw) cut the price and save the environment. That's realistic.

Regardless £5.00 per night is opportunistic at best, but I'd call it something else.

You are forgetting the installation costs, maintenance of system, other fixed charges when running a campsite (rates, insurance, salaries, bank charges, maintenace of site, develpoment of site) and profit. You must also understand that for most of the year the site is running only part full.

These costs have to be added somewhere in the charges so some may be tacked onto the electrical charge.

If you are a professional worker are you main considerations, when pricing a job, just being fair to the punters? I think not.

 

[Sidney]

You are forgetting the installation costs, maintenance of system, other fixed charges when running a campsite (rates, insurance, salaries, bank charges, maintenace of site, develpoment of site) and profit. You must also understand that for most of the year the site is running only part full.

These costs have to be added somewhere in the charges so some may be tacked onto the electrical charge.

If you are a professional worker are you main considerations, when pricing a job, just being fair to the punters? I think not.

The problem is charge £5.00 or more and many would think, "I've paid for it, I'll use it".

Charge less and an owner may make more profit :thumb:

 

[SUGGY]

As an aside , i was speaking to a warden at a Caravan Club site last year and he said that the caravan club nationally had an electric bill of £4 million for the year ! .

The impression he gave was that people were leaving heaters on in the caravans and in the awnings when they went out at night .

Based on the concept iv'e been charged for it so i will use it ....

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[scotjimland]

The problem is charge £5.00 or more and many would think,[HI] "I've paid for it, I'll use it". [/HI]

Charge less and an owner may make more profit :thumb:

You are correct.. sadly there are those who have that attitude.. but I can assure you, lowering prices won't change that one iota..

as an example..

I have friends who own and run a CL.. (they also both work full time) ..

in 2008 they were charging £10 per night, inc leccy.. at the end of the financial year they were in deep debt with a HUGE electric bill.. which they had to borrow money to pay off.

In 2009 , they put the pitch fee up to £12 to try to cover the electric ... and still made a loss.

I advised them to fit meters.. and in 2011 they fitted 'pay to use' card meters.. rate was set at the current retail price of 14p per kwh..

they reduced the site fee to £10, and for the first time in years.. they not only broke even but made a profit.... and no big surprise electric bills.

At first there were the 'usual' complainers.. the ones who expect to heat a van 24/7 and have the site pay. .. but now almost everyone thinks it's a good idea.. those who don't.... don't come back.. but it must be popular as they are pretty much fully booked all year..

 

[Barclaybasher]

Went out most weekends last Winter, nightly fees were between £15 - £22 including EHU.

One site near Scarborough metered by card, freezing cold, they said "we'll put a pounds worth on for you" - their card - "that should do you".oh:

We did have the oil heater on, lasted to about 11pm, then heard a clicking sound - 500w inverter had taken over as the mains electric had gone off - cost me a new inverter !

The worst site I have ever been on and the most expensive (new inverter):Angry:

 

[thehutchies]

in theory a camper could us 24 hrs x 3 kwh x 15p = £10.80

being more realistic.. 12 hrs at 3kw = 36kwh x 15p = £5.40 ..

Of course in summer the use is less.. the site owner hopes to break even on his leccy bill over the year..

Would many motorhome users have a constant load of 1500watts over a 24 hour period? Are your sure that's realistic?
.

Jim's figures are perfectly realistic.

I would guess that, on the colder days, we are using around 1.5kW, averaged over 24 hrs.

We use it because we need it, not just because we've paid for it.

In the middle of summer, the site owner makes a bigger profit on our site fees, in the winter a smaller profit.

We are both happy with that arrangement

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[darklord]

I suggest you all try "camping", might be a novel idea, but travelling around without being tethered to a 240v supply, might make a refreshing change.
It may even excercise the old grey matter, deciding which alternative you prefer, gas/solar/genny/alternator, then seeing how long you can last without "hooking up".
I find it amusing that car manufacturers are frantically finding ways to increase the distance electric cars can travel without their "hook up", but MH owners seem to be decreasing the distance, and complaining about the cost.
MAYBE, we could join forces, and use the same supply, then those motorhomers who cannot do without their "fix", can park in a town centre car park where leccy cars park.......luvverly.

 

[thehutchies]

I suggest you all try "camping", might be a novel idea, but travelling around without being tethered to a 240v supply, might make a refreshing change.
It may even excercise the old grey matter, deciding which alternative you prefer, gas/solar/genny/alternator, then seeing how long you can last without "hooking up".
I find it amusing that car manufacturers are frantically finding ways to increase the distance electric cars can travel without their "hook up", but MH owners seem to be decreasing the distance, and complaining about the cost.
MAYBE, we could join forces, and use the same supply, then those motorhomers who cannot do without their "fix", can park in a town centre car park where leccy cars park.......luvverly.

Not all of us are 'camping'

There are many different ways to enjoy 'motorhoming'.

 

[darklord]

If people are compalining about the cost of leccy, they aint enjoying t much are they:thumb:

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[thehutchies]

If people are compalining about the cost of leccy, they aint enjoying t much are they:thumb:

How would we run the convection/microwave oven, the electric heaters, the spin drier, the tumble drier, the XBox 360, the Wii, the flat screen TVs and the air conditioning without a mains supply?

We're not complaining

(And many people here are only happy when they are complaining )

 

[darklord]

 

[motorhomelover]

Do you think so.. ?

Camp site pays about 15p per unit .. so it is quite easy in winter to use £5 .. that's about 33 units

in theory a camper could us 24 hrs x 3 kwh x 15p = £10.80

being more realistic.. 12 hrs at 3kw = 36kwh x 15p = £5.40 ..

Of course in summer the use is less.. the site owner hopes to break even on his leccy bill over the year..

A campsite cannot charge separately for electricity unless it is metered and charged at cost price...
What they can do is offer a choice of pitch with or without EHU .. hence the all inclusive pitch price..

not many sites can run 3KW lucky if you get 16amp
most sites charge more than the average can use so as not to loose money and to recoup investment cost

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