Insuring a motorhome in Portugal (1 Viewer)

RogeTeri

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I intend buying my first motorhome in the next few weeks. I have been looking at different insurers some of whom claim to cover your motorhome abroad for 360days. Having contacted them this appears to be a misrepresentation as I am being told that if you are out of the country for more than six months in a year then you lose your UK resident status resulting in a claim being declined as you must be a UK resident. So that seems to have scuppered my original plan of keeping UK plates and my insurance in UK. So it seems that I can take up UK insurance and go abroad but before six months are up I will need to re register with Portuguese plates and take out insurance there.

What experiences/ideas has any one got around this subject. I would like advice on the best route to insurance and whether I can avoid having to get Portuguese plates without having to spend 6 months in the UK. What else do I need to know before I dive in? Would really appreciate some sound advice from some experienced funsters!

All the best to you all Roge and Teri
 
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pappajohn

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my interpretation on this is different to yours.

the country you are visiting for more than 6 months may require you to apply for residency and that will mean re-registering your van.

the UK residency should only be void if you emigrate to another none EU country.

my daughter took a 12 month working holiday to Australia the onwards to Indonesia for 6 months.....she had no problem returning to the UK.

all you need do is go over to Spain for the day, buy something in Spain as proof you've been and your 6 months will start again.
 

Billy23

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my interpretation on this is different to yours.

the country you are visiting for more than 6 months may require you to apply for residency and that will mean re-registering your van.

the UK residency should only be void if you emigrate to another none EU country.

my daughter took a 12 month working holiday to Australia the onwards to Indonesia for 6 months.....she had no problem returning to the UK.

all you need do is go over to Spain for the day, buy something in Spain as proof you've been and your 6 months will start again.

Nope, residency as I understand it, is if you spend more tha 180 days in the country, per year, so going to another country for the day don't work .

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Billy23

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Having thought a bit more about it, I have heard that on or two people got round the problem (with a UK car) by contacting a company called Ibex insurance in Gibraltar, don't know if they insure MH but might be worth an email, just Google Ibex.

Hope that helps.
 

pappajohn

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Nope, residency as I understand it, is if you spend more tha 180 days in the country, per year, so going to another country for the day don't work .
I stand corrected.......but read below.

EU nationals can come to Portugal as visitors and remain for up to 180 days, although after 90 days they must apply for an extension to remain as a visitor for a further 90 days or apply for a residence card ( autorização de residência).

and this which is more pertinant to the question

Cars and driving licences
Q: What is the procedure if I wish to bring my car with me to Portugal?

A: As a tourist, you may keep your vehicle in Portugal for a maximum of 180 days in any 12-month period provided it is for your own private use and you do not loan it to anyone else during that period. Do not leave Portugal without your vehicle. If you do, you may be subject to a fine. If your stay exceeds 180 days or you intend to take-up residence in Portugal, you must apply for the permanent importation of your vehicle to the nearest office of the Direcção-Geral das Alfândegas (Customs authority). You have only 6 months within which to do this from the date of your arrival so it is advisable to start the importation process as soon as possible. For further information, see our information leaflet and the customs website (in Portuguese).
 
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RogeTeri

RogeTeri

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my interpretation on this is different to yours.

the country you are visiting for more than 6 months may require you to apply for residency and that will mean re-registering your van.

the UK residency should only be void if you emigrate to another none EU country.

my daughter took a 12 month working holiday to Australia the onwards to Indonesia for 6 months.....she had no problem returning to the UK.

all you need do is go over to Spain for the day, buy something in Spain as proof you've been and your 6 months will start again.

I don't think this will work to be honest as to hold the insurance the insurance companies say you have to be a uk resident and once out of uk for more than 6 months you loose that residency status. Of course you remain a UK citizen but a non resident one and once there you can't hold UK insurance. I think you can't then insure in Portugal with UK plates hence the need to change plates. I must admit I thought that simply leaving Portugal for Spain would reset the counter, was even prepared to drive back to uk for a few weeks, but the insurers seem to count the time spent in uk over the insurance period and they are saying this must be more than 6 months.:Cool:

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RogeTeri

RogeTeri

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Nope, residency as I understand it, is if you spend more tha 180 days in the country, per year, so going to another country for the day don't work .

Yes this is what I understand. Don't think there is a way round this.
 
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RogeTeri

RogeTeri

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Having thought a bit more about it, I have heard that on or two people got round the problem (with a UK car) by contacting a company called Ibex insurance in Gibraltar, don't know if they insure MH but might be worth an email, just Google Ibex.

Hope that helps.

Thanks i will give that a try
 

Billy23

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I stand corrected.......but read below.

EU nationals can come to Portugal as visitors and remain for up to 180 days, although after 90 days they must apply for an extension to remain as a visitor for a further 90 days or apply for a residence card ( autorização de residência).

No problem, I can really only talk about Spain and I thought that Portugal would be the same, in Spain they don't seem to worry about the 90 day bit, it is straight into the 180 day rule. Having said that they change everything......daily :ROFLMAO:

Also to register a car/MH in Spain you have to be a property owner or have a written and signed rental contract and I guess that would be the same in Portugal, unlike the UK when you buy a vehicle you just tell the guy you buy it from that your name is John Doe and that fine.:thumb:

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RogeTeri

RogeTeri

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I stand corrected.......but read below.

EU nationals can come to Portugal as visitors and remain for up to 180 days, although after 90 days they must apply for an extension to remain as a visitor for a further 90 days or apply for a residence card ( autorização de residência).

and this which is more pertinant to the question

Cars and driving licences
Q: What is the procedure if I wish to bring my car with me to Portugal?

A: As a tourist, you may keep your vehicle in Portugal for a maximum of 180 days in any 12-month period provided it is for your own private use and you do not loan it to anyone else during that period. Do not leave Portugal without your vehicle. If you do, you may be subject to a fine. If your stay exceeds 180 days or you intend to take-up residence in Portugal, you must apply for the permanent importation of your vehicle to the nearest office of the Direcção-Geral das Alfândegas (Customs authority). You have only 6 months within which to do this from the date of your arrival so it is advisable to start the importation process as soon as possible. For further information, see our information leaflet and the customs website (in Portuguese).

Thanks very much it seems my fears are correct. Thanks for the trouble you have gone through with your reply, much appreciated
 

Billy23

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Thanks very much it seems my fears are correct. Thanks for the trouble you have gone through with your reply, much appreciated

You don't have to thank us .......yet, I will bet we have a long way to go with this question, he! he! :Rofl1

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RogeTeri

RogeTeri

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I know what you are saying about open borders. But going right back to the thread of this, If I am insuring the motorhome in the UK then I have to declare that I am a UK resident. Easily done! However, if there was an insurable accident then the insurance company would not have to prove that I was outside of the UK for more than 6months. I would be called on to prove, (by way of travel documents and tickets etc.), that I have been resident in the UK for more than 6 months and therefore holding residency which is a requirement of the insurance. If there is no accident, I agree you can likely get away with it. The trouble is, if you have an accident you will be in do-do with the insurance, your claim will be declined and your insurance voided. This could leave you with a damaged/written off motorhome and no protection for the loss. It's a catch 22 situation!

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alfandM

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Why not just ask jj how it works ,he should know better than any one:thumb:
 

sedge

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All insurance contracts are made on the legal basis of uberrima fides - ie utmost good faith. That applies equally to both parties - the insurer and the policyholder.

If you lie or accidentally even give em wrong info, and they find out whether by fair means or accidentally - then they can 'avoid' the cover. That's to say they treat it as if you never had the cover in the first place and no you ain't entitled to get yer premium back.

Now if you accidentally spell your name wrong and say your middle name is Sydney when it's really Sidney - in practice I doubt if they would bat an eyelid but OTOH perhaps they could - however then you'd have em in Court and I expect the Court would probably decide the co weren't being reasonable. If you told em the wrong cc of the engine though, methinks the outcome would be different.

I think being 'economical with the truth' is no better than out and out lying, meself.

Roger - I think you are being very sensible.

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my interpretation on this is different to yours.

the country you are visiting for more than 6 months may require you to apply for residency and that will mean re-registering your van.

the UK residency should only be void if you emigrate to another none EU country.

my daughter took a 12 month working holiday to Australia the onwards to Indonesia for 6 months.....she had no problem returning to the UK.

all you need do is go over to Spain for the day, buy something in Spain as proof you've been and your 6 months will start again.

Sorry to disagree with you Pappa John but nipping into another country for a day does not quaify you for another six months, when I lived in Spain a few expats tried this by going to Gib for the day, they were soon shown the error of their ways by the Guardia and prosecuted for not registering their cars on Spanish pltes and for also for registering at the local town hall not
 
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RogeTeri

RogeTeri

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All insurance contracts are made on the legal basis of uberrima fides - ie utmost good faith. That applies equally to both parties - the insurer and the policyholder.

If you lie or accidentally even give em wrong info, and they find out whether by fair means or accidentally - then they can 'avoid' the cover. That's to say they treat it as if you never had the cover in the first place and no you ain't entitled to get yer premium back.

Now if you accidentally spell your name wrong and say your middle name is Sydney when it's really Sidney - in practice I doubt if they would bat an eyelid but OTOH perhaps they could - however then you'd have em in Court and I expect the Court would probably decide the co weren't being reasonable. If you told em the wrong cc of the engine though, methinks the outcome would be different.

I think being 'economical with the truth' is no better than out and out lying, meself.

Roger - I think you are being very sensible.



Sedge you are quite right in what you say, Utmost good faith is the key and you can easily be found out as this is classed as insurance fraud. When making a claim the onus would be put on you to prove where you have been and when and this information should be readily available to the insured so the insurance company could rightly withhold payment of a claim until such reasonable proof is provided.

I am a little annoyed with some insurers who are claiming to offer 365 day EU cover when in fact they demand residency status. I think it may lead some policy holders to break the rules inadvertently. This combined with the question, 'are you a UK resident?" can also confuse as for example I was unaware until very recently that you lose that status after 6 months abroad.
 
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Sundowners

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I think that if you have a property in Portugal and intend to stay there, you should bite the bullet and become a Portuguese resident:thumb:
You can register your car as temp. import, (so get a local MOT) but I really don't know how you go about it--------we met an English woman last winter that had done it
Otherwise it looks like you may have to spend 6 months in UK:Sad:
ALL vehicles are registered when leaving/returning UK and we have been told that insurance Cos. have access to this info. ??--------IF you had to make a big claim I think they would like to avoid paying out:Sad:
Nigel & Pamala

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RogeTeri

RogeTeri

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I think you are right. Was hoping to have missed something but from what I've heard there seems no (legal) alternative.
 

Cocoro

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What about 'Fulltimers'?? Most Motorhome specialist insurers say that you must be on the electoral role and have a permanent address/home in the UK. If not, then a 'Full Timers' policy is all they can offer you. I haven't asked about the terms of this policy apart from being told the premium doubles or even triples. But this does mean you deemed not to have a permanent home in the UK. I first thought that this surely means the insurers expect you to travel far and wide including abroad. But then I guess there are full timers who never leave the UK also.

It may be worth talking to the Insurers about this kind of policy. Even at three times the premium, if it means you are free to travel far and wide and still remain insured it is cheaper and less hassle than re-registering your vehicle.

With regard to Residency, I think the rules are there to control the movement of people illegally settling in the country of their choice. With regard to leisure travellers, who have no intention of settling in another country and do intend to return after whatever period of time travelling around, the rules just don't allow for this. We're caught up in the web of control mechanisms that were perhaps never intended to target us.

A deer ran out in front of me in 2007 In Denmark and caused sufficient damage to disable my van for anything other than trotting along at 40kph. My UK insurers at the time, Bakers of Cheltenham allowed me to repair the van there which suited me. There were no questions of time spent abroad, travel receipt request or anything.

I don't believe you automatically become non-resident when you spend longer than six months out of the UK. In fact, it's become harder and harder to become non-resident nowadays as the government are more likely to investigate your reasons for wanting to leave rather than be quick to lose you. As a British Resident you can only be classed as non- resident if you spend not more than three months of the year in the UK averaged out over the previous four years. This rule changes dramatically this April as to be unequivocally classed as non-resident you must not spend longer than 45 days a year in the UK! This increasing step by step depending on certain criteria such as do you have a home in the UK, did you work in the UK, do you have immediate family in the UK etc.

It's not sooo easy to become Non-Resident. The real issue is the country where you are staying and if they are bothered or interested in you as a traveller if you stay longer than the EU standard of six months.

I say speak to your insurer, ask them directly if 'they' class you as non resident if you spend longer than six months out of the country while travelling or not. And enquire about the full timing policy which may suit you and them better.
 
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RogeTeri

RogeTeri

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This sounds good advice. I think mainstream insurers are going to be far less ready to offer cover to full or nearly full timers. This leaves more specialists insurers who may offer cover. All insurers assess the risk and then charge a premium they deem fir to cover the risk, so it is not surprising to find this becoming a multiple of a basic premium. The UK Gov website seems to support this six month ruling on residency and the insurers I've spoken to seem to hide behind this. My fear is that there will be guys out there thinking they have cover only to find they've fallen foul of the residency when they make a claim.
I think it would be a good idea to spend some time investigating this with insurers and seeing who does provide what. Perhaps someone out there has already done so?

A full timer policy at an inflated premium may well be the answer to the hassle you can expect in replaying.

Seeing that we are all EU citizens I think it is about time that Brussels comes up with an EU policy that is open to all member states to travel anywhere within the EU. After all they want to control everything else we do.

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Cocoro

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Ha! you've got me nervous now! I've just had a quote for my Carthago Mondial which I am about to bring into the UK. I may have to ask them their thoughts on this before I proceed.

Thought I had it done, researched and sorted. Don't think I can bare anymore ringing around for more quotes!
 

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