cold starting a 508d update. (1 Viewer)

[WESTERNSTAR1]

Hi.thanks for all the previous responses.
I took the engine cover off today for a look.
it has a om314 4ltr diesel.
there are no glo plugs anywhere i could see.
it looks like the injector pipes screw straight into the engine.
it doesnt look like a conventional injector set up.
the truck is 1977.
a friend suggested maybe it has a lever on the pump for cold start?
it started fine this morning but its a lot warmer!
any further advice would be very welcome.
we are at a bit of a loss here.
i have a manual for it only its all in german!
it states the larger 6cyl engine has a cold start on the key,but not the 4cyl.
the rest is in german so a bit difficult to read.
any ideas here?
Cheers Don and Susie

 

[olley]

Hi no idea what pump you have but just incase it's like the old simms inline pumps, on the side of the pump theirs a button on the side of a lever, push the lever fully over and press the button in, this is the excess fuel button. Its the top of the two levers in the picture. The button is the black bit you can see on the lever pivot

Failing that you may just have to use easy start if your compressions are a bit down.

Olley

 

[Geo]

Hi no idea what pump you have but just incase it's like the old simms inline pumps, on the side of the pump theirs a button on the side of a lever, push the lever fully over and press the button in, this is the excess fuel button. Its the top of the two levers in the picture. The button is the black bit you can see on the lever pivot

Failing that you may just have to use easy start if your compressions are a bit down.

Olley

Buy plenty
once you start using that it will never start again without it
I cant even find your motor in the data sheets to offer any known issuesoh:

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[Fatalhud]

Hi Don/Susie

I use to own a 608D many years ago, But for the life of me cannot remember if it had a cold start lever.

All I can remember is it had a black knob which could be used for adjusting tickover (turn) or stopping the engine (pull), Although it was easier to kill the engine by putting your foot under the accelerator pedal and lifting it up

I think the main issue was to make sure you had a healthy battery to turn the engine over

The 608D had 24 volt electrics, including headlights/indicators
Am I right in saying the 508D has 24volt starting with a dropper box for 12v light,ect

Alan H

 

[Braunston]

Hi,

You said yesterday that you thought there was a glow plug in the inlet manifold, have you confirmed this only my Deutz Boat engine has a Glow Plug fitted on the inlet manifold and it needs to stay on for at least 30 secs and as the temperature gets colder for considerably longer.

Also be very careful using Easy Start if you have got a Glow Plug in the inlet manifold, if you use or the glow plug is automatically energized then spraying easy start down the inlet manifold should be avoided in my opinion, I certainly wouldn't use both at the same time.

From the outside looking at the inlet manifold all you can see is what looks like a rather fat spark plug head with a wire attached, on the inside of the inlet manifold you would see a rather thick coil of wire which when energised gets red hot, thus heating the inlet combustion air to aide the starting combustion.

Hope that helps, as I said in the other thread, to energise the plug if you have one could be either on the key switch or a separate button, normally what ever energises it would be a hold on type of operation so when you let go it goes off, hope that makes sense.

Hi.thanks for all the previous responses.
I took the engine cover off today for a look.
it has a om314 4ltr diesel.
there are no glo plugs anywhere i could see.
it looks like the injector pipes screw straight into the engine.
it doesnt look like a conventional injector set up.
the truck is 1977.
a friend suggested maybe it has a lever on the pump for cold start?
it started fine this morning but its a lot warmer!
any further advice would be very welcome.
we are at a bit of a loss here.
i have a manual for it only its all in german!
it states the larger 6cyl engine has a cold start on the key,but not the 4cyl.
the rest is in german so a bit difficult to read.
any ideas here?
Cheers Don and Susie

 

[adventure]

On the older Mercedes you had a knob to pull to start the engine, if you pulled this 3/4 of the way up and held it there it would pre heat the glow plugs, afetr a minute or so you pulled it all the way and it should start from cold.

Sorry if this is a repeat from the earlier post but there seems to be abit missing

nick

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[AuldCodger]

Hi,
Been driving Merc. Commercials for forty years and except for the days of frozen derv (imagine lighting a fire under your pride and joy, no not the missus ) they always start but as has been said DO NOT USE cold start, an engine killer, I would be surprised that it was still available

 

[chesterfield hooligan]

Hi a merry Christmas to everyone
Just to say why engines become addicted to 'easy start'. Is when the engine is started with it,it knocks on startup is because the 'easy start' ignights at a lower compression but gives a higher detionation knock which helps it start but shatters the top compression ring so that the engine needs another shot the next time ect untill you have to use it all the time
yours Brian and Marion

 

[olley]

Can't agree with you guys, heard that story before but never found it to be true, the V8 perkies often needed a squirt in the cold weather but were fine in the summer, the RR diesels even had an easy start cartridge, you dropped it into a tube, screwed the lid on and as you did it punctured the cartridge, again fine in the summer, and RR diesels were crap.

Never had much to do with van diesels so it might be true for them.

Olley

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[ruffingitsmoothly]

Can't agree with you guys, heard that story before but never found it to be true, the V8 perkies often needed a squirt in the cold weather but were fine in the summer, the RR diesels even had an easy start cartridge, you dropped it into a tube, screwed the lid on and as you did it punctured the cartridge, again fine in the summer, and RR diesels were crap.

Never had much to do with van diesels so it might be true for them.

Olley

Hi Olley cannot agree more in fact the old Transits with the York engine used to have the same system you would charge it up and then use it for starting yet in summer they were fine, well. fine as them old diesels could be

Regards Pat

 

[Terence]

508 cold start

I owned a 508 for over ten years and my experience was 1/
There are no Glow plugs because the engine is direct injectin 2/ The vehicle system is 12 volts other than the starter motor which is 24 volts and is operated via a great big solenoid under the drivers seat which switches the two batteries into series whilst the starter button is being pressed. As soon as the starter button is released and the engine is running the solenoid reverts to 12 volts and the batteries charge in the normal way with the alternator.
The two batteries have to be in good nick and of equal power for the system to work.
I did experience the contact screws working loose on the solenoid that impeded starting, other than that it never failed.
Hope that has been of help.

Terence

PS If any one would like FOC a pre fuel filter glass and screw retaining clip I have one.

 

[Stephen & Jeannie]

I wonder ????

Any "old timer " truckies remember lighting newspapers under the engine to warm the diesel up !!!

I used to drive an AEC Mandator !!! What a bitch !!!

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[Heyupluv]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWqANVpJ1Ck"]OM314 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IexqLYrGvrg"]1975 Mercedes Benz 300D VERY Cold Start Winter W115 OM617 (-19F) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vwSvhJuiY"]om314 - YouTube[/ame]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=5sItU2rCPN0

 

[winand]

That second video is not an OM314 engine, but an OM615 or OM616 (which do have glow plugs)

I now own my second MB508 bus with an OM314 "coldstarter" motor (so no glow plugs).
When it's cold (below 0 Celc) then it's take little longer to start.
Mercedes advises a thinner oil in there manual, but since 15W40 is the only (cheap) Mineral(!) oil available, almost every 508 owner uses this oil.
Because this oil is much thicker when cold, starting can take up to say 6 attempts, each time you hear the motor turning a little faster, warminging up due to friction i guess.
Also, When air is cold, it not as easy to compress, so keep that in mind to.

Nothing to worry about, it always starts eventually.

(and yes, try to STAY AWAY from start pilot sprays, it can damage your engine when used often!)

 

[Snowbird]

A little off topic but I was looking at some ex German ambulances built on the Merc 508d with between 1000 and 5000 kms from new. They were all in as new condition and for sale here in the UK by an ex MOD dealer at £3800. They would almost break for parts at that money but would make super self builds.

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[scotjimland]

A little off topic but I was looking at some ex German ambulances built on the Merc 508d with between 1000 and 5000 kms from new. They were all in as new condition and for sale here in the UK by an ex MOD dealer at £3800. They would almost break for parts at that money but would make super self builds.

been looking, and very tempted Dave..

http://www.ljacksonandco.com/index.php?option=com_joodb&view=article&joobase=3&id=1016&Itemid=136

 

[Snowbird]

Thats them Jim. Bomb proof mechanics and although elderly they are a steel at that money. Just wish I had the time to do a self build.

 

[jhorsf]

Probably a lot better to do than an old VW

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[Snowbird]

If you click on the "View full speck" button on Jims link it shows what they look like in civy paint.

 

[Terry]

At just shy of £4800 inc vat you must be joking You would never get your money back Sure they are bomb proof engines but so are tractors -not quite wide enough too old oh: spares in another 5 / 10yrs ? bad now so god only knows about then -drove like slugs when new--- got to be committed to keeping it a long time-would you want one that long or get fed up?
You could buy a newer 2005 ish model ambulance with a great shape for converting,better,faster and more mpg -and still a bomb proof engine - just leccys that let them down
terry

 

[scotjimland]

At just shy of £4800 inc vat you must be joking You would never get your money back Sure they are bomb proof engines but so are tractors -not quite wide enough too old oh: spares in another 5 / 10yrs ? bad now so god only knows about then -drove like slugs when new--- got to be committed to keeping it a long time-would you want one that long or get fed up?
You could buy a newer 2005 ish model ambulance with a great shape for converting,better,faster and more mpg -and still a bomb proof engine -[HI] just leccys that let them down [/HI]
terry

how many miles on a 2005 ambulance Terry ? ..

I'm guessing but at 7 year old, say 30- 50k a year = 210- 350k ?

plus, I don't want a van run by a computer .. if that goes tits up in Morocco .. or further afield.. how do you get a) parts b) someone to fix it .. ?
I want low tech and bomb proof.., rear wheel drive.. and if it does need fixing it can be done by a blacksmith..

so there.. stick that in yer pipe and smoke it ...

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[Snowbird]

At just shy of £4800 inc vat you must be joking You would never get your money back Sure they are bomb proof engines but so are tractors -not quite wide enough too old oh: spares in another 5 / 10yrs ? bad now so god only knows about then -drove like slugs when new--- got to be committed to keeping it a long time-would you want one that long or get fed up?
You could buy a newer 2005 ish model ambulance with a great shape for converting,better,faster and more mpg -and still a bomb proof engine - just leccys that let them down
terry

I think you should look outside the box here Terry. These are not ex ambulances with 200000 miles on the clock which are only switched off for oil changes.
The Merc 508 is the chosen form of transport by serious world travellers, as all parts are available on any street corner anywhere in the world.
If I went to the trouble of converting one of these it would be kept for the duration, as it would be built exactly to my needs, so resale value would not come into the equation. Admittedly they are far from the fastest thing on the road but these should have the high ratio dif, and I never travel above 60 MPH anyway. I think the 308-408 and 508 are one of the most self converted vans in Europe so either they all got it wrong or there is a reason for that. Any parts for Mercedes commercials are available from Stuttgart over night if not available locally, and that's for vehicles over 40 years old, including headlights which Fiat think should go out of production when 10 years old. Even after fitting they would cost less than 10k and where could you get a motorhome that would last a lifetime for that money.

 

[Wildman]

I sold our 508d 3 years ago, it did 17mpg and I could not here a word sue was saying whilst the engine was running. spares were beginning to get scarce then.

 

[Reallyretired]

I sold our 508d 3 years ago, it did 17mpg and [HI]I could not here a word sue was saying [/HI]whilst the engine was running. spares were beginning to get scarce then.

Perhaps I should get one then

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[Terry]

Thinking outside the box and smoking my none existing pipe take a good look -they are short wheelbase models and as such only have 10 ft in the back hardly enough room for all the stuff you need for an extended trip unless you are thinking of sleeping in a tent: BigGrin:
I look at things on the practical side plus a resale side of things -Is Chas small enough to sleep across the front seats? How much room left after you put a bed up and fit in a loo/shower/cooker and kitchen sink?
Yes there are plenty converted in Europe simply because what other vans were available that size 25 yrs ago other than Mercs ? Trannys had not really caught on and Iveco was not really around much, at that time and the rest of euro vans were small by comparison. YES IF they were the MWB/LWB MODELS but they aren’t and in my mind not much use for any more than a single possible double traveller.(at a squash) Even then you would need a roof rack for all the stuff I imagine you would need.
For 10 k yep you could do it :thumb:and have a lot of good trips in it and yes it would last a lifetime but would I want one? Don’t know I want to convert another van but I also keep thinking nothing wrong with this one we have I deffo do not need the newest van just one that is practical for our needs :thumb: the rest I can fit where I need/want it
terry

 

[Snowbird]

Loads of room if it was converted like this one. Link Removed

 

[scotjimland]

Thinking outside the box and smoking my none existing pipe take a good look -they are short wheelbase models and as such only have 10 ft in the back hardly enough room for all the stuff you need for an extended trip unless you are thinking of sleeping in a tent: BigGrin:
I look at things on the practical side plus a resale side of things -Is Chas small enough to sleep across the front seats? How much room left after you put a bed up and fit in a loo/shower/cooker and kitchen sink?
Yes there are plenty converted in Europe simply because what other vans were available that size 25 yrs ago other than Mercs ? Trannys had not really caught on and Iveco was not really around much, at that time and the rest of euro vans were small by comparison. YES IF they were the MWB/LWB MODELS but they aren’t and in my mind not much use for any more than a single possible double traveller.(at a squash) Even then you would need a roof rack for all the stuff I imagine you would need.
For 10 k yep you could do it :thumb:and have a lot of good trips in it and yes it would last a lifetime but would I want one? Don’t know I want to convert another van but I also keep thinking nothing wrong with this one we have I deffo do not need the newest van just one that is practical for our needs :thumb: the rest I can fit where I need/want it
terry

I take everything you say on board Terry .. advice is always welcome

My next van won't be for a family.. initially Chaz will come but in a few years she will be either staying at home or living elsewhere.. :Sad:

I have a tent for use when staying on a site.. I actually prefer sleeping in a tent .. and also a small trailer for the extra load.

I want a really practical camper that can go and park just about anywhere ... bomb proof engine without electronics.. self sufficient, dependable and rugged.. on board facilities will be basic, but well built..

I know it will be a slug and probably noisy.. (I used to drive one for work,) they are not an Autobahn cruiser.. that's for sure..

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[Terry]

Loads of room if it was converted like this one. Link Removed

That's 2 ft longer makes a BIG difference:thumb:
Strange the link takes you to a different place on tablet
Terry

 

[Terry]

I take everything you say on board Terry .. advice is always welcome

My next van won't be for a family.. initially Chaz will come but in a few years she will be either staying at home or living elsewhere.. :Sad:

I have a tent for use when staying on a site.. I actually prefer sleeping in a tent .. and also a small trailer for the extra load.

I want a really practical camper that can go and park just about anywhere ... bomb proof engine without electronics.. self sufficient, dependable and rugged.. on board facilities will be basic, but well built..

I know it will be a slug and probably noisy.. (I used to drive one for work,) they are not an Autobahn cruiser.. that's for sure..

Yep it will do most of what you require but an extra 2 or 3 ft longer would be better
Terry

 

[winand]

A ex army ambulance 508 for 4800 pounds seems fair, in Holland they go for approx. 8000 euros.
They are becoming thin numbered however. A well known trader in Holland now only has the newer 609 Vario ambulances:

Link Removed

You can buy an original, or a painted and camp outfitted version and even rent one..

I quote a poster: "you will never get your money back".. Well, that's not the point is it?
It's also about loving old vans, bulletproof mechanics without any electronics (you can fix them anywere). Sure, they're loud, slow, many do smell and smoke.. but i love it

I have restored my current 508 (350cm wheelbase version) and building it into a camper..
Check out: http://508.winand.nl/
(a translation option is provided above the menu)

If you have any technical questions for 508, 406/407, there is an very active forum in Holland with (for the most part) old MB bus lovers:

http://www.campertechniek.eu
(no translation here, but posting your question in english will result in english answers ;-))

Also nice to know is that this is the former forum of the MB camper club "dubbellucht" which has it's own website:

http://www.dubbellucht.nl

They have a large parts depot and many members. On club weekends twice a year approx 300 could show up..

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