"A" frames (I know ........) (1 Viewer)

[knokinonabit]

Not being an "A" framer myself, it appears that the problems arise because the brakes don't work on the toad.
I've just been on Armitages of Ferrybridge web site and they have "A" frames that have braking systems and lighting systems. Even a parking brake and jockey wheel.

I may be miles behind the times here, but doesn't that sort out the legal aspect, or am I just being naive. :Blush:

Sorry to open this up again if you knew about it all along. :hardhat:

 

[Wildman]

Hi it sorts part of the problem, however a vehicle on an "A" frame becomes a trailer and has to be capable of being reversed. due to the steering geometry of the car, camber angle etc that is almost but not entirely impossible.But lots of people do tow for many hundreds of miles every year. How you fare if pulled depends on what plod had for breakfast, hee hee. Definitely illegal in Spain and some other countries so be careful. Try a search on here for thousands of posts on the subject for and against, no point in reinventing the wheel.

 

[vwalan]

think you will find that although they have brakes when going forwards . that comply .
when going backwards doesnt have auto reverse braking . ie .the brakes would come on if you reversed back ,specially up a hill .
there are systems that dont use the sliding hitch . and these would comply in my mind . i cant see the sliding hitch ones complying properly .
but really it makes much more sense to get a mini artic .or a 5er.

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[Dodgey]

Most round here use 'legal' ones, ie braked, either overrun cable connected to the toads footbrake pedal or electric, the electric type either sence movment and apply pressuere via a ram to the footbrake pedal again or the ram (and it's mechanism) have a direct elctrical connection to a control box connected to the towing vehicles brake pedal, well the brake light switch.

None braked or recovery are the ones you're thinking off and apart from recovery they aren't suitable really for the task, not least of which because they are bound by specific laws, ie recovery only and speed limited to name but two. To complicat I beleive some can be braked but I don't know how.

Fundamentaly a recovery frame clamps to the vehicle suspension whereas the sort MHs typically use use dedicated brackets to connect, attached to the chassis, or structural part of the toad vehicle.

Reversing is contentios, the rules state reverse but not how for or any manoverabilty, and a framed car will go backwards, but not for, unless you're very luck or sneak someone in the drivers seat to steer

I deliberatly used the term 'legal', as I think we all agree it's a bit of a grey area as here in the UK they are neither legal or illegal and as long as trailer regs are observed you're at least in the right (legal) direction, well until a law is passed or precedent set in court.

A frames arn't new, been around decades, safe, simple and personal choice.

 

[knokinonabit]

So it is me being a bit slow then :Blush:

Thought I may have stumbled onto something new, but apparently not. oh:

I don't intend using one myself anyway. Much prefer the (legal) motorbike in the trailer. :thumb:

 

[vwalan]

recovery dollies have a speed limit .recovery aframes dont .
only conventional trailer speeds .
dollies are classed different . 40 on motorways .20 mph on other roads .

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[Dodgey]

but really it makes much more sense to get a mini artic .or a 5er.

This presumes you always want a car with you, what if it's occational, what if it's not every time, what if the car is a 'fun' car, MH = flexible, all others pose limitations?

 

[Jim]

There might be loads of reasons why A frames are illegal (I don't know of any, and no one has yet convinced me they are illegal) but reversing is not one of them. I have seen A frames reversed loads of times.

 

[vwalan]

no limitations with mine probably goes places many motorhomes fear to tread . and i carry my m,bike in the back. might even be shorter than many m,homes .lower and narrower.
3m high .7ft6ins wide .10mtr long .
every one knows artic is more manouverable than a rigid.
plus only one insurance one tax (m,home /car).
can agree that a 4x4 truck ie. canter would be nice under the front but cant have it all.
mind i do have aframe ,towboy dollie and loads of recovery equipment here should i want to do it different . bike trailers, front wheel lift and kliponoff carriers .
but artic is definately the ultimate way to do it .hee hee . :thumb:
but dont go too big is the answer .

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[pappajohn]

There might be loads of reasons why A frames are illegal (I don't know of any, and no one has yet convinced me they are illegal) but reversing is not one of them. I have seen A frames reversed loads of times.

I hate to start an other A frame war BUT......if the brake linkage is correctly adjusted you cannot reverse an A frame except down hill.

the rolling resistance of the toad will be higher than the overrun hitch spring/damper resistance and thus will apply the brakes.
once the wheels castor left or right the resistance is then 100%..effectively stopping the car dead.

downhill, of course, the car will try to run away against the hitch so the hitch wont slide, so the brakes wont come on....unless the wheels castor left or right as above.

final comments from me on the subject :thumb:

 

[vwalan]

hi pappa that why you need the leccy operated brakes , no pressing on brake pedal no brakes coming on . or air both work fine.

 

[Chris]

I quite fancy an A frame myself.

Not to use in Spain but everywhere else.

Assuming I have the towing power could I stick an A frame on a. BMW 5 series?

I don't really see much point towing a dinky car.

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[pappajohn]

I quite fancy an A frame myself.

Not to use in Spain but everywhere else.

Assuming I have the towing power could I stick an A frame on a. BMW 5 series?

I don't really see much point towing a dinky car.

providing it aint an auto and the vans train weight is rated for the weight of the BMW, then i cant see any reason why not.

 

[Chris]

It's autooh:

 

[pappajohn]

It's autooh:

Well, you can still tow it but have a load of new gearboxes to hand

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[scotjimland]

I quite fancy an A frame myself.

Not to use in Spain but everywhere else.

Assuming I have the towing power[HI] could I stick an A frame on a. BMW 5 series?[/HI]

I don't really see much point towing a dinky car.

that's putting the cart before the horse..

better buying a nice caravan ... :thumb:

 

[Jim]

I hate to start an other A frame war BUT......if the brake linkage is correctly adjusted you cannot reverse an A frame except down hill.

the rolling resistance of the toad will be higher than the overrun hitch spring/damper resistance and thus will apply the brakes.
once the wheels castor left or right the resistance is then 100%..effectively stopping the car dead.

downhill, of course, the car will try to run away against the hitch so the hitch wont slide, so the brakes wont come on....unless the wheels castor left or right as above.

final comments from me on the subject :thumb:

Not with an unbraked frame with a brake buddy, buddy

 

[buttons]

I hate to start an other A frame war BUT......if the brake linkage is correctly adjusted
[HI]you cannot reverse an A frame except down hill.
[/HI] the rolling resistance of the toad will be higher than the overrun hitch spring/damper resistance and thus will apply the brakes.
once the wheels castor left or right the resistance is then 100%..effectively stopping the car dead.

downhill, of course, the car will try to run away against the hitch so the hitch wont slide, so the brakes wont come on....unless the wheels castor left or right as above.

final comments from me on the subject :thumb:

Similar to a Fiat then.

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[pappajohn]

Not with an unbraked frame with a brake buddy, buddy

Ok wise ass.....I'll give you that one

 

[vwalan]

we aret doing too bad ,you said last comment by you on it ages ago . hee hee.

 

[pappajohn]

we aret doing too bad ,you said last comment by you on it ages ago . hee hee.

didnt mean not commenting on the thread Alan..just not commenting on the legalities and usability of A frames. :thumb:

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[Xoxoc]

Some automatics can be towed without problem - don't know if the BMW is one though.

Some a-frames (like the Blue Ox Aventa that I have for sale ) aren't braked and so can be reversed without suffering the sliding hitch issue that PJ mentions above

 

[knokinonabit]

Some automatics can be towed without problem - don't know if the BMW is one though.

Some a-frames (like the Blue Ox Aventa that I have for sale ) aren't braked and so can be reversed without suffering the sliding hitch issue that PJ mentions above

My reason for posting this thread was to point out that a particular make of "A" frame had a braking system, so effectively making it "more" legal, if that makes sense. Surely your unbraked "A" frame is "less" legal.

Blooming heck, it's a mine field, innit !!!!!!!

 

[Xoxoc]

My reason for posting this thread was to point out that a particular make of "A" frame had a braking system, so effectively making it "more" legal, if that makes sense. Surely your unbraked "A" frame is "less" legal.

Blooming heck, it's a mine field, innit !!!!!!!

I understand why you might think that that but of course the manufacture, sale, purchase and ownership of an unbraked a-frame is not illegal.

When in use I always used a Brake Buddy braking system (also for sale ) and therefore I had a braked trailer attached whenever I was towing the car.

HTH

Bryan

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[slobadoberbob]

boring

boring, boring and boring...

Bob

 

[knokinonabit]

boring, boring and boring...

Bob

Probably as boring as reading about someone trying to sell an RV........................again and again and again !

Sorry Bob, couldn't resist that :thumb:

It's only boring to those of you who have been there and done that.
Us novices have yet to learn it all.