Propane Charging (1 Viewer)

[bullrush]

I expect this thread has been discussed before so being new to forums here goes :-
I have been refilling my Propane bottles for a few years now in garages selling LPG but this practice is frowned upon and I just can not see why.
When filling allways make sure you are using an empty bottle and go by the guide supplied ie 85% of bottle capasity. If you can change an empty bottle then you can recharge one in the garage.
There charging adapters sell for about £45 on Ebay and after 4 refills you are in profit.
This is especially handy when on the contenent (another adaptor required)
when on a long stay during the cold weather but again the garage owners are not to happy so do it descreatly.

 

[vwalan]

keep your head down or wear a crash helmet . low flying remarks might go your way . snap . been doing it since 76.

 

[Terry]

I expect this thread has been discussed before so being new to forums here goes :-
I have been refilling my Propane bottles for a few years now in garages selling LPG but this practice is frowned upon and I just can not see why.
When filling allways make sure you are using an empty bottle and go by the guide supplied ie 85% of bottle capasity. If you can change an empty bottle then you can recharge one in the garage.
There charging adapters sell for about £45 on Ebay and after 4 refills you are in profit.
This is especially handy when on the contenent (another adaptor required)
when on a long stay during the cold weather but again the garage owners are not to happy so do it descreatly.

Should be 80 % IE 3.9 kg bottle = 7.8 ltrs gas -6kgb = 12 ltrs gas etc,etc
You also got robbed on price
Link Removed
Link Removed
terry

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[vwalan]

actually if you get a 13kg bottle thts after the 80% 6kg is after as well rule of thumb 6kg is 12 litres . put less if you want .
just reaized thats what terry just said ./ i cant read properly . i must have been gassed as a child ha ha .

 

[johnp10]

Last summer I saw a brain dead pillock filling a gas cylinder (not gaslow) with a mickey mouse pigtail at a filling station whilst I was filling up.
I informed him that not only are these cylinders not user refillable, but thefuel companys dont allow it on safety grounds.
I politely asked him to stop filling until I had left for my safety, at which he came out with a load of f's and b's.
I reported him to the garage operator, who promptly turned the pump off.
I dont care how long you've been doing it or how safe you think it is, it's unsafe, particularly since the brain dead pillock in question had the thing laid on it's side (a major no no) in his car boot.
Why do people who spend a fortune on motorhomes try to cut corners at the expense of basic safety?
I suppose when the first brain dead pillock goes up with a bang it will be the garage's fault?
If it was safe and legal, the fuel companies would be encourageing it.

Keep doing it, but not near me.
If I see it I WILL report it, I value mine and my family's life more than your wallet.

End of inerest in this, we 've been here before.

Oh, one last query. This talk of cylinder weights in relation to fill: do you fill with the cylinders sitting on bathroom scales?

 

[vwalan]

is that your interest or the interest of others . ?
smile your on candid camera .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[johnp10]

is that your interest or the interest of others . ?
smile your on candid camera .

Mine, Alan.
We've been here before and will again go around in circles with those with a brain accepting it's unsafe, and those without saying how long they,ve been doing it.
Remember the cylinders are the property of the gas companies, who ban self filling for safety as well as commercial resons.

I'm going before I get bored with this issue (again), or before the self styled, unqualified dangerous goods experts come along with the usual crap.

Oh, one last query. This talk of cylinder weights in relation to fill: do you fill with the cylinders sitting on bathroom scales?

 

[chrisgreen]

never seen the point of illegally filling gas bottlesoh:
i have gaslow,i can and do top up my bottles whenever i visit a fueling station,no need to wait till the bottles are empty,no need to go under cover,and when i have finished with my gaslow system i will sell it on and get my money back.:thumb:
i use 47kg bottles for my central heating and cannot fill them cheaper than i buy them for and they deliver them and connect them, i dont need to touch them.:thumb:
i still would not fill the 47kg bottles if i saved 50% its illegal and unsafe

 

[vwalan]

but you cant save with the 47kg bottles but you could save at home with a tank .45.6 i was quoted yesterday from flogas if i change to them and cheaper tank rental. might do it . been with calor but needs must. they also mentioned 45 plus vat at 5%if i open an acount with them for domestric gas. 24 plus for 19 kg bottles . seems cheap. i use the fillers in emergency . normally would use spanish or morocan bottles . much cheaper . get home with two full bottles and that sees me through the summer in the truck . but its nice to know i can top up if needed in other countries . wish we had prices like maroc about 4 quid to fill a 12 kg bottle . thats exchange .
its not ilegal .you can buy bottles in many countries just for filling .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[chrisgreen]

had a tank in the front garden suplyed by calor free of charged ,car crashed into it and pushed it off its plinth calor refitted it free,and claimed off his insurance
twelve months later i caught the driver on the fiddle while filling it and went to bottles.
the driver said it was full but i could see the condensation line only a third the way up the tank,so pulled him about it and asked him to prove it was full by the autoshut off,he managed to get another 150lt in it, but my ticket said 500lt delivered,and he realised i was on to him,and said sorry mate i thought it was full,i did'nt argue i just canceled the contract and changed over to bottles:thumb:

 

[Emmenay]

"but this practice is frowned upon and I just can not see why"


Now where is my bag of popcorn :hardhat:

 

[chrisgreen]

"but this practice is frowned upon and I just can not see why"


Now where is my bag of popcorn :hardhat:

cause there is no 80% safety shut off valve on calor bottles,there is on gaslow:thumb:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[vwalan]

ive had a 1200 litre tank for years . they only charge for what goes in . should be a computerized read out . . my tank was free but they charge 16.15 every quarter. not usually noticed but in winter i let the tank get really low before i leave then i notice it as no gas to pay for . i thought of changing to bottles last year . but as i stayed here tank was cheaper . i can hook up to a bottle if i run out . got all the fittings in place . was handy years ago if didnt want a big fill up. as it is there is now a flogas depot at the end of my road so bottles are probably the way .
they also have an auto gas pump . is on one of olleys list s now i hope .
big easy space for bigger rv,s .


as to the 80%shut off valve there should be an 80-90 % shut off at the pumps .
there isnt one on calor tanks . there is a bleed off but can fill to 90% with ther bleed of shut . then their pump stops . very occasionaly one of the trucks can get my guage to 95 %.

 

[GJH]

"this practice is frowned upon and I just can not see why."


As others have said, dangerous and illegal. If it were not the adaptors would be available everywhere, not just on eBay.

Never mind what standards - or lack of - are applied in other countries, do what you like there but act legally and responsibly here.

 

[scotjimland]

What Calor say ..

» Highly Dangerous
Calor has become aware of increasing numbers of people using adaptors to fill LPG cylinders from autogas dispensers. This practice is not only unlawful but also highly dangerous as there is a strong probability of leaks occurring and cylinders being overfilled.
The filling of LPG cylinders is potentially an extremely hazardous activity, and safe filling requires appropriate expertise and training of operators, use of certified equipment, safe working procedures and a safe environment. Automotive LPG filling stations incorporate safety measures to ensure the safe refuelling of vehicles but they do not include all of the necessary safety elements required for filling LPG cylinders. Furthermore, commercial LPG is supplied in two forms - propane and butane - and filling a cylinder with the wrong type of LPG can lead to serious appliance malfunction and can cause safety devices to fail.
Members of the public who refill LPG cylinders using autogas refuelling equipment not only create a serious risk to their own safety and the safety of others, but are also contravening UK Health and Safety Regulations, Weights and Measures Regulations and Consumer Safety legislation. These Regulations impose important legal duties on the site operator to ensure the safety of both their employees and members of the public. In the event of an accident as a result of this type of activity, the site operator could be liable to prosecution. Calor is therefore urging autogas refuelling site operators to be vigilant and take appropriate action to prevent the unlawful and potentially dangerous re-filling cylinders in this manner.
Dr Terry Ritter, Calor’s Head of Health and Safety said “The public might think it is an easy and convenient way to top up a cylinder, but they are actually putting themselves and others at risk of serious injury or even death.[HI] Calor has taken successful court action against individuals for unauthorised filling and will continue to do so.[/HI]”

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Terry]

Yet another load of I'll informed twaddle It simply is not illegal to fill your own bottles It is recommend that you do not fill them
As to being dangerous there is probably less danger filling a bottle with a adapter than there is to filling a refill system bottle No pipes and joints or linkage to leek oh: no 80% gauge to fail or anything like that so less to go wrong :thumb: There are lot's of posts on refillable bottles going wrong, pigtails leaking, 80% gauge going faulty etc etc None about a adapter going wrong oh:indeed just about the only thing to go wrong is it could snap thus rendering it useless Then there is human error but I put it to you if you cannot do your 2 x table you should not be using one anyway
Terry

 

[jonandshell]

Except, Terry, it is NOT your bottle.

The bottle is always the property of Calor!

 

[Emmenay]

"but this practice is frowned upon and I just can not see why"


Now where is my bag of popcorn :hardhat:

Just to clarify, "but this practice is frowned upon and I just can not see why" is the OP's opinion not mine, no no no not mine....:thumb:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jonandshell]

In fact, if you didn't sign the original contract and have a Calor bottle, it is not being rented by you and therefore it is stolen goods!
It is well known that Calor do the rounds at car boot sales and repossess their bottles from time to time!

 

[Terry]

oh:

Except, Terry, it is NOT your bottle.

The bottle is always the property of Calor!

oh: oh:oh:who said its a Calor bottle ? also before anyone jumps on Jim's post we went over this last year-laws are past by parliament not by Calor recommend practice
Terry

 

[chrisgreen]

Yet another load of I'll informed twaddle It simply is not illegal to fill your own bottles It is recommend that you do not fill them
As to being dangerous there is probably less danger filling a bottle with a adapter than there is to filling a refill system bottle No pipes and joints or linkage to leek oh: no 80% gauge to fail or anything like that so less to go wrong :thumb: There are lot's of posts on refillable bottles going wrong, pigtails leaking, 80% gauge going faulty etc etc None about a adapter going wrong oh:indeed just about the only thing to go wrong is it could snap thus rendering it useless Then there is human error but I put it to you if you cannot do your 2 x table you should not be using one anyway
Terry

the only cost you illegal fillers save is the cost of CE approved filling system so whats that? £400 a small cost considering the cost of a motorhome and safety,and remember with a refillable system, i need no spanners, no lifting bottles ,no stealth, just pull up and fill, pay and leave.
and i put it to you that if you cannot afford a reliable legal refilling system you should not be illegaly filling bottles with an adaptor knocked up in someones shed and flogged on ebay,you should instead just stick with exchanging bottles as your bottles were designed for:Sad:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Emmenay]

I have just paid out and fitted the whole gaslow thing. As Chrisgreen said pull up, fill up, pay and go. My reason for fitting it was because I didn't want to be the one standing on a garage forecourt with the focus on me when somebody complains about me filling a standard bottle.

 

[jonandshell]

oh:

oh: oh:oh:who said its a Calor bottle ? also before anyone jumps on Jim's post we went over this last year-laws are past by parliament not by Calor recommend practice
Terry

Yes, but you are breaking Calor's rental contract and thus liable for a civil action to be taken against you.
If you haven't signed a rental agreement, you have stolen goods and that is a criminal matter!

 

[Terry]

Yes, but you are breaking Calor's rental contract and thus liable for a civil action to be taken against you.
If you haven't signed a rental agreement, you have stolen goods and that is a criminal matter!

Do you honestly believe only Calor make bottles?
Terry

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jonandshell]

Of couse not!
You can always paint it yellow and write Gaslow on it!!

LOL oh:

 

[jb0371old]

You can get an alugas sytem fitted for £175. I met a bloke who sells these adaptors at the newark show, he was trying to convince me that it was a safe practice and if you overfilled it you could just vent off the excess to the atmosphere, I mentioned the 80% safety cut off valve in refillable bottles, he went a bit quiet and just mentioned that the fuel pump would do hat for you, if thats so then why are there the shut off valves in the bottles. The other issue is that the gas bottle (no matter who actually owns it or sold it) should be checked out which does happen when you exchange it. I am a scuba diver and my two air bottles need a visual inspection every two years and a hydrostatic every 5 years, whch I am assuming would be similar with a gas bottle. Another issue is that if you have an accident in your van and the assesor comes around and sees a ebay filler item he could reason that the cause of the damage could habve been casused by that, obviously it probably wouldnt be but if they can get out of paying they will try anything. Just my two penneth worth, and I will be paying the £175 for peace of mind and not having to worry about running out of gas.

 

[jonandshell]

You can get an alugas sytem fitted for £175. I met a bloke who sells these adaptors at the newark show, he was trying to convince me that it was a safe practice and if you overfilled it you could just vent off the excess to the atmosphere, I mentioned the 80% safety cut off valve in refillable bottles, he went a bit quiet and just mentioned that the fuel pump would do hat for you, if thats so then why are there the shut off valves in the bottles. The other issue is that the gas bottle (no matter who actually owns it or sold it) should be checked out which does happen when you exchange it. I am a scuba diver and my two air bottles need a visual inspection every two years and a hydrostatic every 5 years, whch I am assuming would be similar with a gas bottle. Another issue is that if you have an accident in your van and the assesor comes around and sees a ebay filler item he could reason that the cause of the damage could habve been casused by that, obviously it probably wouldnt be but if they can get out of paying they will try anything. Just my two penneth worth, and I will be paying the £175 for peace of mind and not having to worry about running out of gas.

Or you can paint a Calor bottle with silver Hammerite!!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ShiftZZ]

Definitive answer please ..

What is the legal status of filling your own (non Galslow/Alugas) cylinder?

Not what you do, turning a blind eye etc, just the actual law.

 

[Terry]

Definitive answer please ..

What is the legal status of filling your own (non Galslow/Alugas) cylinder?

Not what you do, turning a blind eye etc, just the actual law.

Simple answer no law against it just against ADVICE given by calor oh: Laws are passed by government :thumb:
This is my last post on it until it comes around next year like gassing
PS if the law has changed in the last year I am unaware
Terry

 

[ShiftZZ]

So therefore there is no legal issue, so what about insurance issue?

a) You have modified the vehicle?
b) You have not followed the guidelines by Calor.

Am I right in my logic that unless you told your insurance company and they agreed to modify your policy, then any damage caused by the unauthorised modification of your gas system may invalidate your insurance?

If there was an accident, either on the forecourt or anywhere else that caused injury as a direct result of these devices, then the public liability section of your insurance would not be valid. if you so you could face a big hefty bill..

Just wondering.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}