Tales of the Fiat "judder" (1 Viewer)

Dec 28, 2011
2,426
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Stokesley, North Yorks
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JoaCamp75Q by Pilote
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After owning our MH for four weeks now it has just been to North East Truck and Van to let them "diagnose" the reverse judder.
The conclusion is that yes, it does judder. Now documented for future reference.
The solution ?
Try to hold it at 1000 to 1200 rpm when reversing as it doesn't judder then.
When I raised concerns about the life of the clutch I was assured that as everything was now logged in with Fiat, any resulting damage would be rectified by them, at their cost. I believe that this is open ended, but I won't be holding my breath.
At the time there was another two MHs in requiring remedial work (this is a truck garage, not a MH one). One (a six wheel Swift) was in for recall work to have bolts replaced in the enginge that had fallen out :Eeek: , and the other, an Autotrail, was having a new turbo fitted. All three of them (mine included) were 12 reg.
The owner of the Swift said he wished he had never laid eyes on it and the owner of the Autotrail wanted his Peugout based MH back.
It doesn't inspire much confidence for the future.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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That sounds worrying, they cant put restrictions like that, on a new vehicle. What if you need to reverse up a steep hill. :Eeek:
 

Heyupluv

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Oct 7, 2008
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After owning our MH for four weeks now it has just been to North East Truck and Van to let them "diagnose" the reverse judder.
The conclusion is that yes, it does judder. Now documented for future reference.
The solution ?
Try to hold it at 1000 to 1200 rpm when reversing as it doesn't judder then.
When I raised concerns about the life of the clutch I was assured that as everything was now logged in with Fiat, any resulting damage would be rectified by them, at their cost. I believe that this is open ended, but I won't be holding my breath.
At the time there was another two MHs in requiring remedial work (this is a truck garage, not a MH one). One (a six wheel Swift) was in for recall work to have bolts replaced in the enginge that had fallen out :Eeek: , and the other, an Autotrail, was having a new turbo fitted. All three of them (mine included) were 12 reg.
The owner of the Swift said he wished he had never laid eyes on it and the owner of the Autotrail wanted his Peugout based MH back.
It doesn't inspire much confidence for the future.

Well if you try to hold engine at 1000...to...1200 rpm...what motorway was you and the mechanic reversing down,:whatthe: is there a limit on the motorway for reversing.......

At 70mph mine is doing 2000 rpm (forward::bigsmile:riving2:) :Eeek::Doh::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:......... this 1200 rpm is all the time even when you are doing a parallel park between two other vehicles ( without slipping the clutch)

I would have thought most of the time tick-over around 750-800rpm:thumb:.would have been suficiant:thumb:....I use very little throttle on mine:thumb:

just joking:RollEyes::winky::winky: I hope you get it sorted soon.....

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Last edited:
Dec 6, 2011
11,470
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When i had a problem on last motorhome ( an in warrenty Fiat x250 ) i phoned Fiat camper services and found them really helpfull. They gave me an incident number ( without this Fiat dont recognise you have a potential claim ) . They then booked the vehicle at the nearwst Fiat motorhome workshop for a mod kit to be fitted. They even called me after the fit to ensure i was happy.

Sorry dont have the number to hand but its on the Motorhome web pages. Hope this helps.

I would not be believing the garage that Fiat will replace the clutch because its being ridden!
 
OP
OP
knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
2,426
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Stokesley, North Yorks
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JoaCamp75Q by Pilote
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Still learning since 2010
Well if you try to hold engine at 1000...to...1200 rpm...what motorway was you and the mechanic reversing down,:whatthe: is there a limit on the motorway for reversing.......

At 70mph mine is doing 2000 rpm (forward::bigsmile:riving2:) :Eeek::Doh::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:......... this 1200 rpm is all the time even when you are doing a parallel park between two other vehicles ( without slipping the clutch)

I would have thought most of the time tick-over around 750-800rpm:thumb:.would have been suficiant:thumb:....I use very little throttle on mine:thumb:

just joking:RollEyes::winky::winky:

Without joking, 800 rpm is tickover and that generates enough power to reverse without slipping the clutch and get onto the levelling ramps, which should leave one foot over the clutch and one over the brake. Trying to hold the revs steady and stop in the correct position without rolling back down or over the back of the levellers is not easily achieved.....
Using the handbrake doesn't work so well as it is a transmission brake and makes the MH rock even more.

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OP
OP
knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
2,426
2,769
Stokesley, North Yorks
Funster No
19,259
MH
JoaCamp75Q by Pilote
Exp
Still learning since 2010
When i had a problem on last motorhome ( an in warrenty Fiat x250 ) i phoned Fiat camper services and found them really helpfull. They gave me an incident number ( without this Fiat dont recognise you have a potential claim ) . They then booked the vehicle at the nearwst Fiat motorhome workshop for a mod kit to be fitted. They even called me after the fit to ensure i was happy.

Sorry dont have the number to hand but its on the Motorhome web pages. Hope this helps.

I would not be believing the garage that Fiat will replace the clutch because its being ridden!

Thanks for the info. I will look it up ont' t'net.

I am with you regards replacing the clutch, even though they assure me that is what will happen.
 
Aug 27, 2009
19,788
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Hertfordshire
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40 years
When i had a problem on last motorhome ( an in warrenty Fiat x250 ) i phoned Fiat camper services and found them really helpfull. They gave me an incident number ( without this Fiat dont recognise you have a potential claim ) .[HI] They then booked the vehicle at the nearwst Fiat motorhome workshop for a mod kit to be fitted. [/HI] They even called me after the fit to ensure i was happy.

Sorry dont have the number to hand but its on the Motorhome web pagesill. Hope this helps.

I would not be believing the garage that Fiat will replace the clutch because its being ridden!
Am I missing something, Fiat have known about this judder fault for a number of years, why do newly produced vans still require a post production mod kit to be fitted:Doh:
 
OP
OP
knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
2,426
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Stokesley, North Yorks
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JoaCamp75Q by Pilote
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Still learning since 2010
Am I missing something, Fiat have known about this judder fault for a number of years, why do newly produced vans still require a post production mod kit to be fitted:Doh:

Cos Fiat are in denial. :Angry:

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Dec 6, 2011
11,470
25,058
South Wales
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19,136
MH
Coach built Adria
Exp
Since 2007
Am I missing something, Fiat have known about this judder fault for a number of years, why do newly produced vans still require a post production mod kit to be fitted:Doh:

Not sure, except i am aware motorhome builders buy "shed loads" of chassis at one time to get best deal on price. So a chassis can be hanging about for a long time in someones yard.

This is borne out by the fact that all Fiat repairers want to see the V5 to copy to Fiat to prove date of registration and therefore get paid for the job...:thumb:u
 
OP
OP
knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
2,426
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Stokesley, North Yorks
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JoaCamp75Q by Pilote
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Still learning since 2010
Not sure, except i am aware motorhome builders buy "shed loads" of chassis at one time to get best deal on price. So a chassis can be hanging about for a long time in someones yard.

This is borne out by the fact that all Fiat repairers want to see the V5 to copy to Fiat to prove date of registration and therefore get paid for the job...:thumb:u

I was asked for my V5 this morning. Didn't have it with me but they did a lot of checking via vin and registration.
 
Dec 6, 2011
11,470
25,058
South Wales
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MH
Coach built Adria
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Since 2007
Is the van a 2012 euro V emissions?

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OP
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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
2,426
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Stokesley, North Yorks
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JoaCamp75Q by Pilote
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Still learning since 2010
It's 2011 but was only registered when we bought it four weeks ago.
The dealer who had the Autotrail franchise went bust and this is one of his stock, eventually taken over by another dealer.
It's a Ducato 160 Multijet, 3ltr., 6 speed.
 

DuxDeluxe

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 10, 2008
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Not doubting you in any way but a bit surprised that they owned up to a problem on the 3.0 litre. Supposedly no judder exists on these.........

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May 23, 2008
2,480
3,481
Near Durham City
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2,787
MH
Carthago
Exp
Since 1984
After owning our MH for four weeks now it has just been to North East Truck and Van to let them "diagnose" the reverse judder.
The conclusion is that yes, it does judder. Now documented for future reference.
The solution ?
Try to hold it at 1000 to 1200 rpm when reversing as it doesn't judder then.
When I raised concerns about the life of the clutch I was assured that as everything was now logged in with Fiat, any resulting damage would be rectified by them, at their cost. I believe that this is open ended, but I won't be holding my breath.
At the time there was another two MHs in requiring remedial work (this is a truck garage, not a MH one). One (a six wheel Swift) was in for recall work to have bolts replaced in the enginge that had fallen out :Eeek: , and the other, an Autotrail, was having a new turbo fitted. All three of them (mine included) were 12 reg.
The owner of the Swift said he wished he had never laid eyes on it and the owner of the Autotrail wanted his Peugout based MH back.
It doesn't inspire much confidence for the future.

I don't know which engine you have but the 3 litre was supposed to be ok, but somer were not. I presented my vehicle to my Peugeot dealer at Darlington in 2008 because of severe vibration, not judder, when reversing. They assured me that the fault was logged and if any future problems arose they would cover the repair. This proved tobe a total load of the usual crap they feed us to make us go away. Last year and 11000 miles the dreaded slip started so I returned to the dealer, and guess what? They would not honour there promise and a new clutch was required. I then went to a proper garage who stated the clutch slip was minimal only occuring at a certain rev range. Needless to say that vehicle was moved on and I bought a Renault, only one fault in 6000 miles so fingers crossed.
Good luck with your vehicle but be very careful who and what you believe.
 
Sep 29, 2009
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Not sure, except i am aware motorhome builders buy "shed loads" of chassis at one time to get best deal on price. So a chassis can be hanging about for a long time in someones yard.

This is borne out by the fact that all Fiat repairers want to see the V5 to copy to Fiat to prove date of registration and therefore get paid for the job...:thumb:u
.
agree here
my previous van 09 registered was delivered to converter in 2007[delivery papers were in owners folder.] judder started after getting caught in france haveing to reverse up steep road which was allmost imposable .full upgrade arranged by fiat top service. different van to drive. much less noise in cab could reverse without clutch slip around my house from the rear.

now have 2012 euro 5 chassis. same low reverse so no judder problem,about 25% better economy, less gearchanges[better tourqe range]
i never heard an acceptance of problem on the bigger engine although 1 or 2 have experienced i beleive
best of luck sorting
 
May 23, 2008
2,480
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Not doubting you in any way but a bit surprised that they owned up to a problem on the 3.0 litre. Supposedly no judder exists on these.........

I thought that in 2008 when I purchased my van. After returning to my dealer 17 times, yes 17 times for recalls I became very chatty with the lads at the dealership workshop.
They said it was more of a heavy vibration on the 3 litre because of the increased weight but it was, and always will be, a problem.

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jhorsf

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May 15, 2009
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I think it depends of just what the converter ordered with the 3 litre as there are 3 different ratio final drive units fitted
 

Minxy

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Aug 22, 2007
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Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
Is there STILL a problem with new Fiats?:whatthe: I thought it was all sorted now otherwise I wouldn't have bought one (getting it in just over a week :thumb:).

Is there a way of checking the build date of the chassis - with our Ford we could go to the Ford ETIS web and check it on there - is there such a thing for Fiats?
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Well that`s our 13th year & still loving it.
Fiat gear box problem

Oh dear, I just can`t believe the amount of stories about this reverse judder problem on the Fiat and Peugeots commercial vehicles.

If you own or have owned a 6sp Fiat Ducato or Peugeot Boxer engined motorhome or commercial van from 2006 until the new Euro 5 engine then it had the reverse gearbox problem.
Lots of people bought a vehicle in 2011/12 and thought they were safe from this problem, well you wern`t, it all depends how long the vehicle has stood in the yard waiting for delivery to the dealerships.
Note!! look at the dates stamped on the tyres this will give an indication when the vehicle was first made.

Peugeots "Boxers" owned up to the problem very early on in it`s discovery and quickly sorted out the necessary repairs etc.
Fiat on the other hand decided to ignore the problem, first stating that it was "characteristic of the engine" The only reason the 3 ltr were thought not to have the problem was that the 3 ltr was the only engine that you could have the auto gearbox fitted to at the this time and the auto gear box didn`t suffer from the problems that the 6sp manual gearbox had.

So there is a fix for the 2.3 ltr engines which when you go through the proper channels ie. report the fault to Fiat.
They will under a recall warranty pay for the modification to be fitted, this is only for the 2.3ltr engines.
THERE ISN`T A FIX FOR THE 3LTR MANUAL GEARBOX VEHICLE.

This following website will provide you with more indepth information
http://www.seered.co.uk/fiat.htm

I wish you all the luck in the world if you have this problem.

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OP
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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
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I have been in contact with the Iveco garage that looked at the MH yesterday to try and find the actual year that the Fiat part was manufactured.
The bad news is that it was 2010, so it is Euro 4 and it would appear to have not had the judder rectified.
To say that I am gutted is an understatement.
Looks like I am in for a long fight.
If all else fails I will go to Trading Standards as it "is not fit for purpose".
As a long time AA member (nothing to do with alcohol before you comment) I will try and get them to do an engineers report and let them have a go at Fiat.
Never have I wanted a new vehicle to break and let me down, but I do now. :Mad:
 

hilldweller

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Dec 5, 2008
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Looks like I am in for a long fight.

Nothing like the original X250 purchasers.

It's so well documented now you've only a bit of a battle on your hands. But as usual your legal recourse is with the dealer who sold it you, put the frighteners on them.

It all panned out long ago on The Dark Side. At first they tried new engine mounts and software change, that failed, then went the whole hog with engine mounts, revised reverse and I think clutch.
 
Aug 29, 2010
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Is it possible that there might be one X250 based MH out there without reverse judder or does it apply to every single one?

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hilldweller

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Dec 5, 2008
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Is it possible that there might be one X250 based MH out there without reverse judder or does it apply to every single one?

Indeed, they did not all judder.

Judder is about a vibration of the whole vehicle. That means every design is different depending on the stiffness of the whole.

Of course it's possible that a non-judderer could judder later as the body ages.
 
OP
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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
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Indeed, they did not all judder.

Judder is about a vibration of the whole vehicle. That means every design is different depending on the stiffness of the whole.

Of course it's possible that a non-judderer could judder later as the body ages.

I believe that the vibration/judder that I feel and hear is mechanical in it's origin and not because of the type of body. If it didn't do it in the first place, then no matter what body it had, it would never do it.

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Dec 6, 2011
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Is there STILL a problem with new Fiats?:whatthe: I thought it was all sorted now otherwise I wouldn't have bought one (getting it in just over a week :thumb:).


i have a Euro V Adria on x250 plus Fiat special camper chassis 2.3ltr 6 speed.
its way better than the Euro 4 2.3 ltr more power, better economy by as much as 3 mpg and thats with only 3500 miles on clock. great torque will pull most motorway hills in 6th maintaining close to 70mph ( except the very steep ones then its 5th ). drives a dream ::bigsmile:

and

as yet no sign of any judder. ( remember i had experience on my last x250 of judder so should notice if it was present now.)


so lets hope you feel the same about your new Fiat when it comes in a few days.

just to re - make the point;-

If anyone has a problem they need to speak to Fiat camper customer services and registrer the problem and get an incedent number. without it "you dont gave a recognised problem" and there will be no follow up by Fiat.:thumb:
 

hilldweller

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I believe that the vibration/judder that I feel and hear is mechanical in it's origin and not because of the type of body. If it didn't do it in the first place, then no matter what body it had, it would never do it.

Certainly mechanical in origin but remember this is basically a delivery van drive train loaded to it's limit.

Instead of a very rigid steel body it's got this huge lump mounted on two great chassis arms, which can bend/flex depending on the rigidity of the box bolted to them. There is the mechanism for massive vibrations.
 
OP
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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
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The bodywork probably acts like a sound box then and magnifies everything.

Charming. :Doh:

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