Site Fees (1 Viewer)

[Larrynwin]

The cost where we have camped in the US in the last couple of weeks has ranged from $28 to $38 , on todays exchange rate £18.66 to £25.33.

These were all fully serviced hard standing pitches with picnic table, 30/60amp Electric, water tap and black/grey dump pipe. Also free Wi-Fi , toilet and shower blocks, swimming pool and most also had a hot tub. :thumb:
Oh and always a warm welcome

Other site facilities were chargeable eg laundry and bulk LPG

Does this make our campsites in the UK look poor value for money ? :Sad:

 

[GJH]

No, as with just about everything it means that free market forces operate differently all over the world.

 

[slobadoberbob]

It is called rip off Britain

It is called rip off britian

The yanks would never get away with what we offer.. So little for so much.

Never been on a USA site that did not offer the works.. Rather it is the norm ...here you are suprised if you A) get it and B) it is not an extra charge.

Bob

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[GJH]

[HI]It is called rip off britian[/HI]

The yanks would never get away with what we offer.. So little for so much.

Never been on a USA site that did not offer the works.. Rather it is the norm ...here you are suprised if you A) get it and B) it is not an extra charge.

Bob

Justification please Bob.

What are the costs, in total, of setting up and running a caravan site that "offers the works" both here and in the USA?

What are the likely numbers of customers that such a site would attract in this country (with relatively few motorhomes) against the USA (which has RVs because of the different long distance travel culture) - and don't forget to factor in those in this country who object to paying site fees because "we've spent a lot on buying a motorhome full of facilities so why should we be expected to pay for extra".

 

[slobadoberbob]

ah good a debate starting

Justification please Bob.

What are the costs, in total, of setting up and running a caravan site that "offers the works" both here and in the USA?

What are the likely numbers of customers that such a site would attract in this country (with relatively few motorhomes) against the USA (which has RVs because of the different long distance travel culture) - and don't forget to factor in those in this country who object to paying site fees because "we've spent a lot on buying a motorhome full of facilities so why should we be expected to pay for extra".

Ah a debate starting ..goodie....

So I presume that the cost of setting up a camp site in the USA or the UK is the same ... have to start somewhere.

Even if you want to claim it is cheaper to do so in the USA, they give you more for your money than you get on a UK site.

In the USA I would expect cable TV connection, a telephone point, Wifi is a given and city water and black dump connection. Plus most give a picnic table or BBQ area.

In the UK you pay for all the extras... cannot imagine in the USA I would pay for a shower... why.. well the RV has a show and I would be connected to city water and water disposal.

I would have a serious 30amp to 60 amp power tree so i can run all my 110v items.

Why is it more expensive to run a camp site in the UK? all have set up costs in the UK or the USA... it is the basics you get over here. I can often get better facilities in France than I get in the UK. Certainly more room pitch size... and that goes for the USA as well and in Canada.

The issue is in the UK it is euroboxes that insist on having silly cassette toilets.. real motor homes have black tanks... who wants to lug a boxful of Sh** across a field. Water points in the UK are in the most a joke... even in France I get one on my pitch. Not have to run hoses miles or drag a water container along. For all that work I can bet you we pay more than equivalent in the USA. Until you have camped over there and seen how it is done you will never understand..............

ALL TOGETHER NOW... IT IS AN AMERICAN THING

You need to start with the basics .. the motor home (i.e Euro box or ice cream van) then it will progress to the camp site... either owned by two large concerns like the CC or the C&CC (that do not want motorhomes... as they are run by people that think caravan only... stick in the muds).... or commercial companies that want to fleece you of every penny .. extra for the shows.. extra for the hook up, extra for the awning, extra for the car on the back....

I rest my case in round one.


Bob:Blush:

 

[JJ]

All well and good on a price level but Larry... but aren't you surrounded by a load of ugly, gas guzzling RVs... with lots of out of shape men all comparing sizes...

JJ :Cool:

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[joner8888]

British sites must be creaming it in somehow.
I go to quite a few sites now and have noticed £ muti 0000,s construction going on with pools ,static vans ect.
What with the banks not forking out loans nowadays, the money comes from some where

 

[GJH]

Ah a debate starting ..goodie....

So [HI]I presume[/HI] that the cost of setting up a camp site in the USA or the UK is the same ... have to start somewhere.

Sorry Bob, not good enough. We need evidence not supposition

 

[GJH]

British sites must be creaming it in somehow.
I go to quite a few sites now and have noticed £ muti 0000,s construction going on with pools ,static vans ect.
What with the banks not forking out loans nowadays, [HI]the money comes from some where[/HI]

Could it be the savings on loan/mortgage repayments because interest rates are so low?

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[Wildman]

British sites must be creaming it in somehow.
I go to quite a few sites now and have noticed £ muti 0000,s construction going on with pools ,static vans ect.
What with the banks not forking out loans nowadays, the money comes from some where

We must be living in a different world, there is certainly a huge difference between camp sites and CL's (or other 5 van sites) Carry on camping comes to mind where everything you want to do costs an extra ten bob please We pitched our price at £7 per night for a tent, motorhome, caravan or RV with no extras. We are not on mains drainage and have to pay to have the septic tank emptied. An RV could easily fill it if we are not careful so where is the profit in that. Electricity supply has been quoted at £10,000 it will never happen. Much cheaper maybe to supply a solar panel for each pitch. Motorhomes are self contained and most manage within those constraints. The RV fraternity seem to want to take all the luxuries and space of home with them, a B&B would work out much cheaper over the course of a year for those that travel without pets.
British campsite owners are constricted by so many rules and regulations they don't stand a chance. In Europe and America things are much more relaxed making it possible to actually earn a living by providing a service rather than being penalised for attempting to. everybody who has visited tells me how lucky I am. I do agree, but would be more lucky if I did not need to actually earn a living. When we first opened I got many upsetting comments from people who thought the CL should be Free for funsters, and they were not joking. Well the answer is simple I like all of you have to earn a living. I wish I did not. The numbers of people using the facilities in the USA make them affordable if we had the same population in the UK things would follow suit. Everything in the states is bigger and better (debatable) because of the population.

 

[aba]

the main difference really is americans class camping as real basic back to nature thing and on the whole is more popular with the teenage end in a tent.

motorhoming is just that in american terms a motor on your home.

the euro zone seems to have a different terminology as a motorhome in euro terms is a camping car same as a camper van and if you look at it for what is actually is its a tent on wheels ok so its not canvas but not as far from a tent as an american RV that is basically a mobile house.


here in the uk big brother wants to know too much about who and where we are than in america so is less likely to allow the true freedom that they get with their mobile homes.

and besides that our roads aren't really suited to the bigger ones.
lets face it it may once have been great britain but we are so behind the times technology wise its a wonder were not just a big lump of history.

maybe thats a good advertisement to get the tourist industry going...............................

COME TO BRITAIN AND SEE HOW THINGS USED TO BE

 

[slobadoberbob]

evidence I get paid to supply so it is supposition

Sorry Bob, not good enough. We need evidence not supposition

I get paid to the evidence bit (research) so it is supposition on the basis of having used camp sites in the USA and Canada and in the UK... as they say I cannot describe a rat... (well Rolland I can - still alive) ... but I sure know one when I see one [a rat that is] .. in this case I know value for the money and getting less for the money in the UK...

As I often say... it is an American thing... when did you last get free wifi (not as added in to the bill) in the UK?

But as said.. someone is spending money on sites and if it is not coming from the banks.. it is off the back of the profits they make... and it is the campers that are paying for that investment that the owners will in turn sell to create more wealth.... still not a patch on an American site.. where drive through is the normal... unlike here in the UK where you have to shunt back and forth to get on and off. Where a car in tow is an oddity rather than normal.

Bob:Blush:

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[GJH]

I get paid to the evidence bit (research) so it is supposition on the basis of having used camp sites in the USA and Canada and in the UK... as they say I cannot describe a rat... (well Rolland I can - still alive) ... but I sure know one when I see one [a rat that is] .. in this case I know value for the money and getting less for the money in the UK...

The question was "What are the costs, in total, of setting up and running a caravan site that "offers the works" both here and in the USA?". It is simply invalid to say "I presume that the cost of setting up a camp site in the USA or the UK is the same". If one is going to make a presumption then the likelihood is that the ratio would be the same as that of charges - though that would probably be inaccurate as well.

As I often say... it is an American thing... when did you last get free wifi (not as added in to the bill) in the UK?

We all know very well that there is no such thing as free WiFi. It is either charged for separately or included in the up front charge - just as in places likes pubs and cafes where it forms part of the cost of your drink/meal.

But as said.. someone is spending money on sites and if it is not coming from the banks.. it is off the back of the profits they make... and it is the campers that are paying for that investment that the owners will in turn sell to create more wealth.... still not a patch on an American site.. where drive through is the normal... unlike here in the UK where you have to shunt back and forth to get on and off. Where a car in tow is an oddity rather than normal.

Bob:Blush:

Customers of any business contribute to profits, which can fund investment or owner income. Why single out caravan sites for special treatment?

As to a car in tow, that simply highlights one of the the differences in long distance travel culture between the UK and the USA.

Who has to shunt back & forth to get on and off a pitch? We certainly don't in a 22 foot motorhome. Drive through might be normal in the USA but they have a lot more land to play with - one of the other big differences.

Frankly I get sick and tired of hearing the phrase "rip off Britain" when the allegation can not be substantiated by hard evidence.

 

[Larrynwin]

All well and good on a price level but Larry... but aren't you surrounded by a load of ugly, gas guzzling RVs... with lots of out of shape men all comparing sizes...

JJ :Cool:

JJ I'll have you know that I am slim and good looking and nothing like what you describe
As for the young Austrian couple next door touring in a small conversion, it would be a nightmare to be in such a confined space all night with her :smalllove::smalllove:

 

[Larrynwin]

We must be living in a different world, there is certainly a huge difference between camp sites and CL's (or other 5 van sites) Carry on camping comes to mind where everything you want to do costs an extra ten bob please We pitched our price at £7 per night for a tent, motorhome, caravan or RV with no extras. We are not on mains drainage and have to pay to have the septic tank emptied. An RV could easily fill it if we are not careful so where is the profit in that. Electricity supply has been quoted at £10,000 it will never happen. Much cheaper maybe to supply a solar panel for each pitch. Motorhomes are self contained and most manage within those constraints. The RV fraternity seem to want to take all the luxuries and space of home with them, a B&B would work out much cheaper over the course of a year for those that travel without pets.
British campsite owners are constricted by so many rules and regulations they don't stand a chance. In Europe and America things are much more relaxed making it possible to actually earn a living by providing a service rather than being penalised for attempting to. everybody who has visited tells me how lucky I am. I do agree, but would be more lucky if I did not need to actually earn a living. When we first opened I got many upsetting comments from people who thought the CL should be Free for funsters, and they were not joking. Well the answer is simple I like all of you have to earn a living. I wish I did not. The numbers of people using the facilities in the USA make them affordable if we had the same population in the UK things would follow suit. Everything in the states is bigger and better (debatable) because of the population.

Two people in an RV poo and wee no more than two people in a camper van and frequently take it away with them .
As for luxuries of home, these are basic needs which we all perhaps expect as a minimum way of living , why pay good money to travel and take a holiday and have to carry your waste around, seems like going back in time.
Many site facilities if planned better initially would cost little more when first set up.
I think its perhaps a mindset of thats all they need when in fact some sites , not all with far better facilities would soon return the initial outlay .

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[aba]

i seem to remember a post by sloberdobabob about an awning and him putting it out and leaving it out for the duration of their stay of around 4 weeks if i remember right.
now as to the problem of toilet waste 4 weeks is a long time and in the first instance if he had a cassete toilet it would probably need emptying every 3-4 days which i can imagine would be a right pain in the bum but i feel its easier to dispose of 15-17 litres every few days than 120 litres in one hit.

also there are a number of funsters that i know of that have had the black tank swapped for a cassette.

mainly i suppose because its easier in europe to empty a smaller container. lets face it if you happen to get the black tank full through mis-management or just bad luck can you just bob into one of those 24 hour public toilets and flush it or do you have to hold on until you find a black dump somewhere.

as has been said its an american thing and their sewers and infrastructure of the country are suited to their ways.
this is not america its a small island in the middle of the sea with bad management and a very selfish stiff upper lip society.

 

[Larrynwin]

i seem to remember a post by sloberdobabob about an awning and him putting it out and leaving it out for the duration of their stay of around 4 weeks if i remember right.
now as to the problem of toilet waste 4 weeks is a long time and in the first instance if he had a cassete toilet it would probably need emptying every 3-4 days which i can imagine would be a right pain in the bum but i feel its easier to dispose of 15-17 litres every few days than 120 litres in one hit.

also there are a number of funsters that i know of that have had the black tank swapped for a cassette.

mainly i suppose because its easier in europe to empty a smaller container. lets face it if you happen to get the black tank full through mis-management or just bad luck can you just bob into one of those 24 hour public toilets and flush it or do you have to hold on until you find a black dump somewhere.

as has been said its an american thing and their sewers and infrastructure of the country are suited to their ways.
this is not america its a small island in the middle of the sea with bad management and a very selfish stiff upper lip society.

Don't agree Andy , now on my third RV and when planning a trip I know that our black and grey tanks will last us a week and is a very simple task and on most sites there is a drain cover that accesses the sewage system whether mains or septic tank. 120 lts once a week is no different to taking it every other day , most of us produce the same whether in an RV or Camper , if we don't want to move the RV we use the waste hog every couple of days, we are prepared for all eventualities :thumb:

 

[Wildman]

Two people in an RV poo and wee no more than two people in a camper van and frequently take it away with them .
As for luxuries of home, these are basic needs which we all perhaps expect as a minimum way of living , why pay good money to travel and take a holiday and have to carry your waste around, seems like going back in time.
Many site facilities if planned better initially would cost little more when first set up.
I think its perhaps a mindset of thats all they need when in fact some sites , not all with far better facilities would soon return the initial outlay .

I think perhaps Larry you misunderstood me, a CL is only licenced for 5 vans even with full occupation the income is never going to be there to pay for better facilities. 10 grand for electric installation would never be earned in my lifetime.

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[Larrynwin]

I think perhaps Larry you misunderstood me, a CL is only licenced for 5 vans even with full occupation the income is never going to be there to pay for better facilities. 10 grand for electric installation would never be earned in my lifetime.

Yes I appreciate that Roger, the CLs provide a quiet low cost camping alternative .
I do believe that our larger club and commercial sites could provide better facilities for the money they demand

Larry