Disabled--vat free? (1 Viewer)

[Terry]

Hi in very simple terms what needs to be done to get a new van vat free ?
My mate is / gets motorbility at the highest rate,does that qualify him for it ?I think he has to get grab handles etc fitted but what else? Are there dealers out there that will give that vat free vans or do they choose not to ?
I have been looking for a second hand Merc (30k ish )for him but when somebody told me about vat free vans and the price reduction it throws up a few more irons in the fire IE new vans not necessary mercs Finding a dealer prepared to sell a vat free van is proving more difficult I found him a van he liked TEC but the dealer refused to sell it vat free saying it was discounted already and did not want the hassle of vat free as well oh:
terry

 

[simsy56]

l think being the higher rate of disability, he should qualify for vat free. Probably the best person to ask is Peter from Johns Cross on this forum.

Craig

 

[Gooney]

General rule of thumb as quoted by DLA is the purchaser must be wheelchair user claim VAT free.

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[Snowbird]

Not only would the van be VAT free but I am sure have read somewhere that any servicing or parts that are later fitted also are VAT free on a VAT free vehicle. If this is correct and you put this into the costings it becomes a no brainer.

 

[slobadoberbob]

Wheelchair or stretcher user

If you want the details p.m. Me..

I have all the form details from HMRC... A lot of dealers have had there collars felt for taking the vat off for unauthorised sales.

Yes servicing is covered under the rules, but not extras... If I have work done on my RV I often have to pay vat on one invoice and not on the other.. HMRC check the frms tha you have to supply (not the dealer) and no you cannot claim it back after... Has to be supplied less vat at the sale point.

I had to have alterations to my RV to comply with the regs.. HMRC will accept a wheel spinner as an adaption... But it is the declaration re wheelchair/ stretcher that is the issue.. Just getting DLA at the higher rate is not enough.

Bob

 

[simsy56]

General rule of thumb as quoted by DLA is the purchaser must be wheelchair user claim VAT free.

What if the user has upper body disabilities, and is able to walk?

Craig

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[slobadoberbob]

The words are very clear

The HMRC on vat releif for disabled people for new or second hand motor homes is very clear... You can down load the document or call the HMRC help line and they will send it to you... I am not at home at the moment so cannot publish the rom number... Hence if anyone wants info p.m. Me.


The declaration that has the be completed and handed over says wheelchair or stretcher user... You have to provide this completed declaration as shown in the booklet... Type your own one out... You also have to do one for the vat trader which gives the details of the work or services he is supplying.. Plus you also have to provide the copy of the original purchase receipt for the vehicle showing it was supplied new or second hand vat free... So it is not just a case of bowling up and getting vat off... I have been all down this route... I had my RV supplied vat free when it came into the UK... I also ave service work supplied vat free.. But not accessories... And remember I am in a wheelchair... If a dealer supplies a vehicle, batman can check.. And often do and can come after you for the vat adding a fine if it was an unlawful deduction.. Yes vat man has visted me to check a) the work b) I am the user and c) I am in a wheelchair... So if you think you have beaten the system.. Vat man can come anytime within 6 years.

Bob

 

[johnp10]

Doesn't all this apply only to a sole vehicle, rather than an extra leisure vehicle?
I would have thought it should be the case?
For a second vehicle (MH), surely this is no different to getting concessions on a car for an able bodied spouse?
My son is disabled, but he can only get concessions on a single vehicle for his own mobility, no concession given for a hobby vehicle.
Not fishing, just asking.
Interesting issue.

 

[Gooney]

What if the user has upper body disabilities, and is able to walk?

Craig

As bob says, it is a minefield of rules and regulations but on enquiring to the DLA helpline I was told unless you are wheelchair dependant there is no point in progressing a claim.

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[slobadoberbob]

different subject

Doesn't all this apply only to a sole vehicle, rather than an extra leisure vehicle?
I would have thought it should be the case?
For a second vehicle (MH), surely this is no different to getting concessions on a car for an able bodied spouse?
My son is disabled, but he can only get concessions on a single vehicle for his own mobility, no concession given for a hobby vehicle.
Not fishing, just asking.
Interesting issue.

It is a totally different subject.

If someone has DLA at the higher rate, they get the option of the allowance of having transport provided in the form a with a lease agreement or a hire purchase agreement via Motability (charity) .. the allowance is taken away and a lease for is provided normally for 3 years or 5 years if it is a wheelchair loading vehicle Motability as a charity do not pay VAT on the lease (the vehicles they buy from the makers)... if it is a hp agreement the vehicle carries the flu VAT.

What we are talking about is providing service to the disabled (Chronically... i hate that word ill or affected).

You can for example sign a exemption certificate for many disabled aids at shows or on line.. a disabled scooter may come in to the bracket or a set of loading ramps for a power wheelchair etc.,

But... (I am home now) .. if you get form Notice 701/59 March 2002 (still valid) blue booklet with VAT on front and Motor vehicles for disabled people in white... HM Customs and Excise 37 pages.

It has all the rules and examples of the forms you need to produce.

The phone number used to be 0845 010 9000

The actual declaration words are:

1) I am a chronically sick or have a disabling condition by reason of (give full and specific description of your condition)

2) the adapted vehicle is for my personal use

3( I usually use a wheelchair or stretcher to be mobile

and I claim relief from value added tax.

This is from page 26 of the Notice 701/59 under section 13.

But you have to use three sections of the booklet to comply.

But motability and higher DLA has nothing to do with the vat relief in motor homes.


Bob

 

[Destination Unknown]

Hand Controls

I have spina bifida and use crutches to get around from birth. We do get mobility from the state but that does not entitle you to vat free purchase.
If you are registered disabled and need a adapted veh to drive then most but not all dealers can help, it is up to the dealer. Forms have to be signed and given to te dealer to claim vat exempt. If the vat people are not 100% satisfied when checked you could still have to pay vat.
To claim vat on a item it must help or make it easier for the disabled person, a car/motorhome ect must have a permanent fixed adaption, ie handcontrols,wheelchair fixings ect.
It is best to speak with the dealers what they can do for you.
Be carefull any false claims may come back...

 

[simsy56]

As bob says, it is a minefield of rules and regulations but on enquiring to the DLA helpline I was told unless you are wheelchair dependant there is no point in progressing a claim.

So, is a person only disabled if his/her legs do not work, and nothing else? l have been into all this before. I am disabled, after having my leg amputated as the result of a motorcycle accident. And, as you say, if you are not confined to a wheelchair or stretcher(I have yet to find someone who needs a stretcher to be mobile), you are not classed as disabled.

Confused,

Craig

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[slobadoberbob]

not 100% right - sorry

I have spina bifida and use crutches to get around from birth. We do get mobility from the state but that does not entitle you to vat free purchase.
If you are registered disabled and need a adapted veh to drive then most but not all dealers can help, it is up to the dealer. Forms have to be signed and given to te dealer to claim vat exempt. If the vat people are not 100% satisfied when checked you could still have to pay vat.
To claim vat on a item it must help or make it easier for the disabled person, a car/motorhome ect must have a permanent fixed adaption, ie handcontrols,wheelchair fixings ect.
It is best to speak with the dealers what they can do for you.
Be carefull any false claims may come back...

HMCR clearly state what can be considered as an adaption::::

while on page 10 under section 3.3 What is a permanent' adaption? says

An adaption is permanent if it can be used for as long as the disabled wheelchair [not it says wheelchair] user requires it. Generally the adaption would require welding or bolting to the vehicle.

if you continue to read section 3.4 page 10 it says

A substantial adaption enables a wheelchair {that word wheelchair again] user to use a vehicle which he could not use before it was adapted. for example a spinner device, such as a knob on a steering wheel, may not seem substantial to an able bodied person but it would be substantial for a disabled wheelchair [again wheelchair] user who could not otherwise drive the vehicle.

other examples are swivel seat. a hoist to lift wheelchair into or on to the vehicle .. whole list of possible items on page 11 under section 3.5.

BUT.. the word wheelchair / stretcher is the key word...

By the way are you aware if you are a full time wheelchair user you are entailed to the council tax to be reduced by one band... they check each year you are in the wheelchair with an unannounced visit. but saves a fair bit each year.

It is a case of knowing the rules .. as my old law master said.. Bob, know the law and apply the law... same with VAT regs.

Dealers will on the whole know a lot less about it than speaking to VAT man.. plus as I said in another post a lot of dealers had there collars felt a while back for false declarations ... I suggest you speak to the VAT information service or get the booklet 701/59 and have an interesting read.. it is in plan english.

Bob

 

[slobadoberbob]

I am disabled as you know

So, is a person only disabled if his/her legs do not work, and nothing else? l have been into all this before. I am disabled, after having my leg amputated as the result of a motorcycle accident. And, as you say, if you are not confined to a wheelchair or stretcher(I have yet to find someone who needs a stretcher to be mobile), you are not classed as disabled.

Confused,

Craig

I am disabled as you know... I am in a wheelchair full time these days.

You see I have one leg:Blush: but what you do not see it is amputated at the hip.. that is why I lean over (bloody webble).. under the SSAT - Social Security Appeals Tribunal rules I am classed the same as a double amputee .. Double amputees are classed as 98% disabled... that is the highest rating given.

Many DDA people that have the award are not actually entitled to it... under the governments review a lot are losing the entitlement as they should never have been given it at all.. badly abused like the blue badge system which at long last has now been taken over by the councils and are 10 times harder to get. Doctors have no part in getting them issues now. You have to be unable to walk 50' to qualify. Proper enforcement on the way at last.

I know some owners of motor homes that should never have been given a vat relief.. it is there conscience and may be a future VAT man on the doorstep that will deal with it.

The issue should there be a vat relief at all is something for another post to debate.

But I have a few times said in this longer train of posts.. get the forms and see if you comply with the rules.

Bob:thumb:

 

[johnp10]

Bob,
None of this application procedure info, whilst no doubt valuable to some folk, answers my query.

Surely the rules regarding concessions / exemptions relate, or should relate, to the essential transport vehicle, not to subsequent hobby / luxury vehicles?

How far do these concessions extend extend in terms of the number of vehicles?
The question I am asking is:
Surely these VAT free concessions on purchase / maintenance etc. don't extend beyond a sole use main vehicle and therefore should only relate to a MH if it is the only or main means of transport, and not to any further vehicles?
(A guy locally has this set up, his wife is disabled).

I have seen on here in the a statement that all disability concessions are put to the MH , making a hobby, rather than essential transport, cheaper. (followed by "hee hee")
Is that an indication that the premise of single rather than multiple concessions are the norm?
That would seem reasonable to me, whereas multiples dont.

I'm still in the dark on this one.

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[darklord]

Good luck to all who genuinley seek assistance to get increased mobility. I have only very scant knowledge of such claims through daughter and grandson, BUT, I can offer a word of warning with regards to who you are dealing with. HMRC are by far, THE most powerfull institution in the country that you are likely to come into contact with, They have powers, that you would not believe, they have the right to do things that the police can only dream of, so please, in your dealing with them, dot all "I's", cross all "T's", and do not for a minute think that you can fox them,...good luck.

 

[slobadoberbob]

the rules do not say it has to be only one vehicle

Bob,
None of this application procedure info, whilst no doubt valuable to some folk, answers my query.

Surely the rules regarding concessions / exemptions relate, or should relate, to the essential transport vehicle, not to subsequent hobby / luxury vehicles?

How far do these concessions extend extend in terms of the number of vehicles?
The question I am asking is:
Surely these VAT free concessions on purchase / maintenance etc. don't extend beyond a sole use main vehicle and therefore should only relate to a MH if it is the only or main means of transport, and not to any further vehicles?
(A guy locally has this set up, his wife is disabled).

I have seen on here in the a statement that all disability concessions are put to the MH , making a hobby, rather than essential transport, cheaper. (followed by "hee hee")
Is that an indication that the premise of single rather than multiple concessions are the norm?
That would seem reasonable to me, whereas multiples dont.

I'm still in the dark on this one.

The rules do not say it is only one vehicle. in fact the rules covers Disabled people, Charities (may have many vehicles) and also eligible bodies under group 15 schedule 8 of the Value added tax Act 1994.

The charity .. is really mini bus up to 12 seats Rules changed 1st April 2001..

section 2.7 Domestic or Personal use says:

To Qualify for zero-rating the adapted vehicle must be for the domestic or personal use of the disabled wheelchair (wheelchair again) user . This may also include vehicles (note the plural) that are used by the disabled wheelchair (wheelchair again) user in his work capacity provided it is incidental to the vehicle's main use as a private vehicle.

You cannot zero rate vehicles supplied to businesses regardless wo uses them or how they have been adapted i.e you cannot zero rate a taxi.

lets start at the beginning... what is a wheelchair user as that is the key word in this booklet.

section 2.2 tells us.

What is a wheelchair user?
For the purpose of this relief a wheelchair user is anyone who has to use a wheelchair (electrically powered or otherwise)in order to be mobile.

A disabled person with a degenerative condition, such as multiple sclerosis, who does not need to use a wheelchair all the time, but only when the condition requires it, also qualifies as a wheelchair user... Please note Craig.

A person who only occasionally uses a wheelchair such as:

1) when visiting a shopping centre or gardens: or
2) temporally because he has a broken leg

is not considered to normally use a wheelchair and is not eligible for the relief.

(A motility scooter is not a wheelchair (section 2.3)

But the document is clear that it is not restricted to one vehicle. and as I have said DLA and motability have nothing to do with VAT relief on motor homes or mini buses (charities). LET ME ADD TO THIS MY SELF THAT IF YOU BUY A CAR THAT IS CONVERTED FOR WHEELCHAIR USER YOU GET THAT WORK VAT FREE.. i.e RAMPS, WINCH, CHANGES TO FLOOR AND REAR END ADAPTIONS, HAND CONTROLS ETC.,)

and yes a family member can purchase one for a member of the family .. covered by section 2.6

Hope that makes it clear.. if not come back

Bob P.S I DO NOT SEE ANY HE HE in it.. it is a serious issue and very hard to comply with. Some may think it is an easy dodge.. it is not.. as I say I have had VATMAN check the work and see all the papers relating to it not once but twice in the past 5 years.

 

[simsy56]

Yes Bob, but mine is not a degenerative condition, and they have told me that I am not classed as a wheelchair user, which i am from time to time.

By the way Bob, do you fancy going halves on a pair of flippers?

Craig

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[Peter JohnsCross MH]

If someone feels they have a genuine case for the supply of a VAT free motorhome, we will do our best to investigate and supply.

What we will not do and never have done is 'con' buyers into believing they can get the concession.

Peter

 

[Terry]

Bloody hell this has moved on a bit since I posted After all this reading I have spoken with my mate and he is now going for the discounted vehicle and sod the vat :thumb: It is a long drive (4 hrs) away so taking him Thursday to look at it and hopefully they may deliver when it is ready :thumb: Thanks everyone :thumb:
terry

 

[slobadoberbob]

If your friend meets the regulations it is worth it

If your friend meets the regulations then it is worth hunting out a dealer that will do the paperwork. Often it is they do not understand what they need to do. If in doubt they can speak to there own vat office and they will advise them (the dealer).

Like Peter of Johns Cross said, if they can help someone that is entitled they try to help. I know often it is meeting the rules and regs that is the stumbling block.

The vat relief should have not effect on any discount your friend gets on a new or for that matter second hand motor home.. the relief also applies to second hand. The vat relief is on the difference between the buy and sell on the dealers books. He is not keen on you knowing this as it is simple then to work out how much profit he is making. ..called on the margin.

But as I have said all along there is a booklet that sets out the terms and conditions in plain english and very simple to understand (well for an ex lawyer it is).. the main stumbling block is the wheelchair use.. it is key to the whole thing, with a few exceptions.

Hope he gets what he is looking for. But he may be wiser to spread his net wider. This is not something that is new or unheard of... it has been in operation for many many many years.


Bob

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[johnp10]

Bob,

I dont doubt the need for disability vehicles and the necessary concessions involved in purchase and maintenance where basic mobility is the issue.
Also I accept that these concessions are obtained in general terms in exchange for mobility allowances.
I am not having a go at disabled people here, all that is as it should be.

It just doesnt seem right that having been given these concessions, they should carry over to subsequent vehicles, vehicles for family members etc.

BTW, The "hee hee" comment wasnt mine, it was from a post regarding another issue.
Cant be bothered looking for it as in context it denigrates what we are talikng about.
This is a serious issue, of which I know little.
That's why I'm asking questions, nothing more.

 

[slobadoberbob]

no offence taken, an understanding is desirable

Bob,

I dont doubt the need for disability vehicles and the necessary concessions involved in purchase and maintenance where basic mobility is the issue.
Also I accept that these concessions are obtained in general terms in exchange for mobility allowances.
I am not having a go at disabled people here, all that is as it should be.

It just doesnt seem right that having been given these concessions, they should carry over to subsequent vehicles, vehicles for family members etc.

BTW, The "hee hee" comment wasnt mine, it was from a post regarding another issue.
Cant be bothered looking for it as in context it denigrates what we are talikng about.
This is a serious issue, of which I know little.
That's why I'm asking questions, nothing more.

I can see (I think I can) where you are coming from. It is a similar issue to not paying to cross a bridge like Dartford, Humber or down in Cornwall. (but Dartford is limited to one registered vehicle if the ANR system is used or by voucher but still is to one registered disabled vehicle at DVLA.

Same as if a person gets the higher level DLA they get an entailment to the DLA 404 which is one road fund licence free (vehicle has to be registered as disabled and in the use for the disabled person... lots of rules and regs loverly..:Blush.

The higher DLA I covered in an earlier post.. this is where the benefit has been hand back to DSS and a car is provided under a lease system which is then handed back at the ned of the lease .. they also have an HP scheme where it works the same way as any other hp... but is under written by Motability and has the advantage of ownership of the car at the end of 3 / 4 or 5 years dependant how long the person has signed up for. Remember this is inlace of the money the benefit provides.

The VAT relief provided by HMRC is not aimed at a motor home. it is aimed at getting the more disabled person out and about. You might be surprised to learn just how many cars cannot take a wheelchair, even one folded up... (A Lincoln town car for example cannot carry on or an S type Merc...) .. so often the disabled person has to look at a bigger vehicle like a Viano (mercedes).. or any one of a lot of people type movers.. they have to have it adapted and that costs is offset by the removal of VAT on the vehicle and adaptions if done in one go... if not in one go it is only the adaptions.

Many companies out there do this kind of work.. like Chris Elliott Adaptions of Peterborough, often seen at shows with his stand.

HMG decided to allow motor homes to come within the range of adapted vehicles many many moons ago. After several court cases HMRC had to amend the rules to cover things like wheel spinners. etc.,

Now I as you know use a wheelchair at shows around my RV and inside it. I also am sitting in it now. But I also have a power wheelchair (provided like the wheelchair by the NHS) I have a scooter (paid for by me)... my car is on the movability 5 year hire purchase scheme .. it is a bog standard car other than the fact it is automatic. I am lucky I have my right leg still... but in the past I have had to have hand adaptions fitted when it has been a normal car with clutch. That car is provided under the movability scheme as I cannot walk at all. So I only get one bit of the cherry John.

My RV was paid for by me. The adaptions I had done to the RV before I took delivery were again paid for by me. As was the purchase price. But as this was imported from the USA it carried VAT at 17.5% and I was able to have that removed and the vehicle was supplied VAT exempt.

I did not get anything really off... as if I purchased one on ebay private I would not have paid vat in any case. If I purchased from a dealer I might have managed to get the vat off the margin (between the buying price the dealer paid and the selling price (i.e of his profit value).

The only people that get the VAT of a new motor home are those that buy new from dealers like Johns Cross that can show that they meet the government regulations. or second hand again if they comply and the dealer is willing to do so, as they are not keen on disclosing how much they are making off you when you buy second hand.:Sad:

BUt John, it is not a case of someone getting something for nothing, or two bites of the pie.. I bet you a pound to a penny they would much rather pay the VAT than be disabled.

I sometime say walk a mile in my shoes .. wish i could walk:Blush: I would swap at the drop of a hat..... so if HMG allows me to take advantage of various offers due to being disabled, yes I will take them up... same with the one band down on council tax.. every little helps as ASADA says...

But John is you do not ask you do not know... as we often say on this site, there is no silly question.. I for one would rather spend time explaining than to just ignore the question.. who knows someone out there today learned something about how to proceed.. well I like to think so.... not the most exciting subject I know.

Keep asking...

Bob:thumb: