Help! Have you a MH based on Merc LHD 410D chassis? (1 Viewer)

[veevee]

Hello I need help please

This is a continuation of a thread started re a manual gear change mystery on the Hymer S 670 1992 based on a LHD Mercedes 410 D chassis

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Briefly, after buying our new to us Hymer MH I found that the 4th and 5th gear position had been transposed, so changing from 3rd to 4th was to the right and back and not to the right and forward.
It appears that the gearbox was overhauled within the last year, but I can't find out as it was an estate sale.

On taking a look underneath it's easy to see the gear selector mechanism on the LH side of the gearbox as it is mostly external to the gearbox (LH when looking from the drivers seat forward)

After help from a Mercedes 208 D owner it appears as though it's possible that the 4th/5th activation lever, the front of 3 that sit alongside the LH side of the gearbox may have been fittted upside down?

Some of the T1 Transporter range had boxes with 2 lever pointing up and 1 down, and some had all 3 levers pointing up, but I don't know what is correct for a 410 D in LHD form (not that LHD will necessarily make any difference?).

So, if someone has a MH based on a LHD Mercedes 410 D with GVW of 4.6 tonnes, and in the year range of 1988 - 1994, would they be so kind as to compare the 3 selector activation levers with the ones in the photo below please.
The lever in question is the front one (LH in the photo) that is alloy coloured. I am hoping that this should point upwards rather than down, but have no proof of that.

The rear most lever is the 2nd/3rd gear lever which is in the 2nd gear engaged position, the others are in the neutral position.

Any help will be most gratefully received, this is a real problem that I have to solve.

Thank you

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[aba]

from the initial look of the positions of the linkage rods this looks like this is correct but i only say it looks correct.
if you did remove the front lever and turned it so it points up instead of down then you would reverse the position of the gear stick for the 2 gears on that lever.

presumably this is the 5 speed gearbox with reverse left and forward and first gear left and back.

 

[veevee]

Hello Andy

Yes it's the 5 speed gearbox with reverse and first where you say.

The logic is correct but when I removed the 4/5 activating lever the connecting rod from the gear lever housing to the avtivating lever is completely wrong and can't be utilised along the top, so it's not just a case of someone fitting it upside down.

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[taffybloke]

The two connecting rods on the black levers terminate facing away from the G/box and the alloy lever rod teminates towards the box. I was wondering if the alloy lever is painted black on the other side like the box??

Mike

 

[veevee]

No, the alloy rod is the same both sides, but a good idea though.

I'm pretty sure that the lever wont fit if reversed as it will hit the casing.

It appears as though this is a replacement lever and possibly connecting rod too, but why that should be?

 

[bigmillie]

This a shot of my 207d

I am sure that is the same 5 speed g/box


First pic is mine

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[aba]

No, the alloy rod is the same both sides, but a good idea though.

I'm pretty sure that the lever wont fit if reversed as it will hit the casing.

It appears as though this is a replacement lever and possibly connecting rod too, but why that should be?

i personally would remove the lever off the gearbox spline and rotate it so it is upwards leaving the connecting rod as it is.
i am sure it will clear the other levers unless it has been bent to fit the way it is now.

if you were closer to me i'd come and try it for you as even if the rod is different it wont take too much altering to make it right.

 

[veevee]

i personally would remove the lever off the gearbox spline and rotate it so it is upwards leaving the connecting rod as it is.
i am sure it will clear the other levers unless it has been bent to fit the way it is now.

if you were closer to me i'd come and try it for you as even if the rod is different it wont take too much altering to make it right.

That's a very kind thought Andy, I have removed the lever and turned it through 180o, the lever is fine but the rod is so far out it's not true.
As you, laying under it I thought it may just fit, but not a chance. It would take a mighty amount of re-shaping to make it fit as it changes direction twice but not at the points it does now.

With a bit of luck I'll find someone who has the 410 D setup, that's my best way of confirming at least which orientation the lever is and after that it's a lesser problem.

Again thank you

 

[veevee]

This a shot of my 207d

I am sure that is the same 5 speed g/box


First pic is mine

Hello Charlie

Thanks for the photo, hope you didn't take it tonight!

I have seen MB diagrams of of the front lever in both positions, I think a 207 and 208 but not 100% on that.
What I have seen only confirms that there were at least two types of selector lever positions, but not so far what is correct for a 410 D.

I also know there were two types of gearbox, mine is the 5 speed and I believe the other 4 speed with a form of overdrive.

Thanks again

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[bigmillie]

I have just had a look in my workshop manual it covers 207d,307d,210d and 410d

No pictures of linkage !

Although the engine sizes differ they all use the same 5 speed gearbox 711.713

The 4 speed box 711.110 was used prior to about 1985 ish

I am wondering if somebody has used the selector link from a 4 speed box on your 5 speed one

Hope you find out soon

 

[veevee]

I have just had a look in my workshop manual it covers 207d,307d,210d and 410d

No pictures of linkage !

Although the engine sizes differ they all use the same 5 speed gearbox 711.713

The 4 speed box 711.110 was used prior to about 1985 ish

I am wondering if somebody has used the selector link from a 4 speed box on your 5 speed one

Hope you find out soon

Don't really mean to question you, but are you 100% re the gearbox numbers above and that a 711.110 is a 4 speed box, I just need to be 110% sure?

 

[bigmillie]

Don't really mean to question you, but are you 100% re the gearbox numbers above and that a 711.110 is a 4 speed box, I just need to be 110% sure?

Only going by the data in the manual (Peter Russek)

States Fitted Transmission

Four speed 711.110 (G1/18-5-5/6/6.5)
Five speed 711.113 (G1/18-5/4.7)

I have to look at my linkage tomorrow as it is getting stiff due to road salt (good old WD40)

I will read the g/box plate on mine to see if it reveals any thing useful :thumb:


Just had a look in a old owners handbook it shows a four speed gear lever


found a pic shows all 3 levers pointing up


reverse left and up
first up
second down
third right and up
fouth right and down

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[veevee]

Only going by the data in the manual (Peter Russek)

States Fitted Transmission

Four speed 711.110 (G1/18-5-5/6/6.5)
Five speed 711.113 (G1/18-5/4.7)

I have to look at my linkage tomorrow as it is getting stiff due to road salt (good old WD40)

I will read the g/box plate on mine to see if it reveals any thing useful :thumb:


Just had a look in a old owners handbook it shows a four speed gear lever


found a pic shows all 3 levers pointing up


reverse left and up
first up
second down
third right and up
fouth right and down

Just spent a few hours going through all the paperwork I can find, plus the OE handbook and a copy of Peter Russek too.

The best bit is the yellow build sheet that came with all vehicles new.

The gearbox type is written as - 711110

The gearbox number is written as - 534483

Both of these tie up with my gearbox.

Also have a photo copy of a van brochure from September 1990, it lists the 4600 kg GVW 410 D with the 5 cylinder engine having a gearbox model of - G1/18-5/6. 15

All of these tie up with the plate on my gearbox (below), phew!

The vehicles with the same 5 speed synchro gearbox are - Petrol 210/310/410 and 4600 kg GVW 410 Diesel

The 5 speed overdrive synchromesh gearbox is used by - all Diesel 208D/308D/310D and 3500 kg GVW 410D

The Russek manual shows exactly what you wrote, but I guess they transposed something as the Mercedes literature has to be more believeable I think/hope.
They also got a 4th and 5th gear in the same gearbox with the same ratio, just a lack of proof reading probably.

Thank you very much, just need someone with the same base MH to come along now.

 

[veevee]

After all the technical data in the previous posts, here is a short summary of the help I need please.

Has anyone a MH based on a 1988 to 1994 Mercedes 410 D manual 5 speed gearbox, 5 cylinder 2.9 diesel engine on a 4600 kg chassis?

Only this diesel model or all the petrol (rare?) variants have the same gearbox. The 410 D with the 3500 kg chassis has a different gearbox according to a Mercedes brochure.

If you have such a MH, is it possible to compare the selector levers against those in the photo in the first post please, I would be very grateful.

Thank you

 

[pudseykeith]

Hello I need help please

Hi VeeVee
just a thought, why not take your picture to the local commercial Merc dealer. You will proberbly find them more than willing to help and advise. well that is my experiance. The stores will have a diagram of the g/box:thumb:
PK

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[icantremember]

Hi veevee, your gearbox problem looks to be most confusing.......I just wondered if you had looked on this forum for help

http://www.benzworld.org/

 

[bigmillie]

Yes Peter Russek have made a right mess of the gearbox info

however I checked the plate on my gearbox and we do have the same apart from the serial number

 

[veevee]

Hi VeeVee
just a thought, why not take your picture to the local commercial Merc dealer. You will proberbly find them more than willing to help and advise. well that is my experiance. The stores will have a diagram of the g/box:thumb:
PK

Hello PK

I may well do that but don't have a Mercedes dealer very close to us here in France (where the MH is at the moment), and to be honest it's been difficult enough to try to write this clearly in English, in French, well....
When we get back to the UK in 3 weeks I will visit the local MB truck dealers as I want to order a couple of bits, and if this is not cleared by then will do as you say.

Thanks

Hi veevee, your gearbox problem looks to be most confusing.......I just wondered if you had looked on this forum for help

Hello Joyce & brian

Yes did contact that forum and a helpfull member kindly mailed over some of the data sheets. But haven't found anyone with knowledge of the same model that I have.

Thanks

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[bigmillie]

Found a Russian site ( use google translator)

enter vin no and you can get all the info you require :thumb:

 

[veevee]

Yes Peter Russek have made a right mess of the gearbox info

however I checked the plate on my gearbox and we do have the same apart from the serial number

Thanks Charlie

That's spot on isn't it. Did you free up your gear linkage at the same time?

Don't understand all the data from Mercedes, but am pretty sure that the model range ran from ? to 1987 and then an update from 1988 to 1994 after which the Sprinter took over.

So, the selector levers are slightly different in shape although we have the same gearbox. And assuming the internals weren't modified all three levers should point upwards.
The front connecting rod for 4/5 gears is a completely different shape to mine, this is a problem that can be cured but a mystery as to why this has happened.

Thanks very much for the photos, it's very thoughtful of you.

While I am writing, are you pleased with the Mercedes part of your MH?

 

[bigmillie]

Thanks Charlie

That's spot on isn't it. Did you free up your gear linkage at the same time?

Don't understand all the data from Mercedes, but am pretty sure that the model range ran from ? to 1987 and then an update from 1988 to 1994 after which the Sprinter took over.

So, the selector levers are slightly different in shape although we have the same gearbox. And assuming the internals weren't modified all three levers should point upwards.
The front connecting rod for 4/5 gears is a completely different shape to mine, this is a problem that can be cured but a mystery as to why this has happened.

Thanks very much for the photos, it's very thoughtful of you.

While I am writing, are you pleased with the Mercedes part of your MH?

The Merc site on last post is good if your vin dont work you can look it up

even found the part no's for all the linkage


The Merc side of my old girl is fantastic :thumb touch wood)

Yes the WD40 has made the gearchange silky smooth

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[veevee]

Found a Russian site ( use google translator)

enter vin no and you can get all the info you require :thumb:

Blimey, what a find!

The parts page for linkage lists 3 sets of linkage, two with the arms pointing up and one with the front arm pointing down. The connecting rod in the first diagram looks like mine, but when still connected to the gear lever arm and swung upwards to enable the selector arm to face upwards, it doesn't work but fouls the housing.

From the drawing it looks like the second diagram is the connecting rod for me, but I'll talk to Mercedes about this in a few weeks time.

That is a great help, what a find.

Thanks

Jamie