judder - what mileage? (1 Viewer)

2dogs

Free Member
Nov 2, 2011
257
73
Devon
Funster No
18,737
MH
Autocruise Rhythm
Exp
Spring 2012
Sorry to bring the subject up again:cry:

Does anyone know what the average mileage the "judder" would show itself and what percentage of vans have the problem?

I'm just a bit worried as I'm still looking for our first MH.

Cheers
2dogs
 

hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
605
36,108
Macclesfield
Funster No
5,089
MH
Zilch Mk1
Exp
From Aug 2007
From memory they judder from day 1.

The worry is that a judder-er will steadily be doing damage to the vehicle.
 
OP
OP
2dogs

2dogs

Free Member
Nov 2, 2011
257
73
Devon
Funster No
18,737
MH
Autocruise Rhythm
Exp
Spring 2012
Thanks Brian,

So in theory, if getting a second-hand van, a test reversing uphill should give me an indication. Is it just unlucky to get the problem? say 10-15% of vans or do most/all have it?

Cheers
2dogs

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Peter JohnsCross MH

Funster
Deceased RIP
Jan 5, 2008
9,617
6,194
East Sussex
Funster No
1,134
MH
Autotrail
Exp
1995
In the majority of cases, judder is caused by driving technique, too much welly on start/reverse

Just let the clutch put with no accelerator and the van will move under the engine management system.

I say this as a driver of many motorhomes, not as a dealer.

Peter
 

hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
605
36,108
Macclesfield
Funster No
5,089
MH
Zilch Mk1
Exp
From Aug 2007
So in theory, if getting a second-hand van, a test reversing uphill should give me an indication. Is it just unlucky to get the problem? say 10-15% of vans or do most/all have it?

Cheers
2dogs

It seemed incredibly random from what I read on the forums when the news broke. No doubt varied with weight distribution and chassis stiffness. And as Peter says you add in the driver as well. And the test. Some folk had to reverse up steep drives.

I seem to recall though, unlike what Peter says, FIAT originally said dial in something like 1300 revs and slip the clutch. Guaranteed to destroy the clutch which is not over engineered for the loads we put on them.
 

peter marshall

Free Member
Mar 5, 2009
2,466
1,704
Cleveleys,Lancashire
Funster No
5,822
MH
Low Line
Exp
9 Years
Hi
My Fiat never rearly juddered but it did hit the floor or something on start up, and I didn't reserve up hills, but on my recent service at Preston Fiat I ask them to check it out, they said it neaded doing so via calls from Milan and Preston to me it was done, the underfloor noise has now gone, present mileage 10,000 so it's not the mileage which is important, the problems are only on the new Ducatto not the previous model. Pete :thumb::thumb:

Ps they are a great van to drive though.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
2dogs

2dogs

Free Member
Nov 2, 2011
257
73
Devon
Funster No
18,737
MH
Autocruise Rhythm
Exp
Spring 2012
Thankis for the replies,

Brian, I can understand the issue of weight distribution and I would think having a longer overhang on the rear wheels could bring on the issue.

We are aiming for a rear lounge with central kitchen/washing area, would this help to place more of the weight evenly between the front and rear wheels?

Cheers
2dogs
 

meanders

Funster - Life Member
LIFE MEMBER
Jun 28, 2008
2,458
7,842
Ipswich, Suffolk
Funster No
3,075
MH
C class
Exp
Since 2004
Most of the affected vehicles should now have been corrected by recall, which should have corrected the problem. Since having the fix on ours we have had no further problems. Only vehicles from 2007 are affected and if you see one that you like you should be able to check that the necessary work has been completed.
 

hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
605
36,108
Macclesfield
Funster No
5,089
MH
Zilch Mk1
Exp
From Aug 2007
We are aiming for a rear lounge with central kitchen/washing area, would this help to place more of the weight evenly between the front and rear wheels?

2dogs

Unfair question, if FIAT, the makers can't predict the bad ones I sure as hell can't.

You need to check if the mods have been done.

If not is the vehicle still illegible.

If not test incredibly thoroughly or better, run a mile.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

beachcaster

Free Member
Dec 18, 2010
3,044
3,161
east sussex
Funster No
14,709
MH
C Class
Exp
a few years
I have a 2009 3 litre auto fiat...........no sign of judder at all
and really lovely to drive. Love the auto box, it may be a computer assisted auto....but you would never know.

barry
 
Mar 2, 2011
506
986
uk
Funster No
15,500
MH
c.. autocruise starblazer
Exp
8 years
Most of the affected vehicles should now have been corrected by recall, which should have corrected the problem. Since having the fix on ours we have had no further problems. Only vehicles from 2007 are affected and if you see one that you like you should be able to check that the necessary work has been completed.


hi

Before buying our MH ,I checked as much as I knew how to , ref possible problems with the X250 2.3 judder problem. Among the first checks being test drive ( no problems apparent ) , plus on to Fiat websites and VOSA recalls site . No recall details specifically regarding the reverse judder found.

Dealer told me there is no official recall on the problem. The procedure apparently being that it was/is done on a case for case basis if the customer contacts Fiat. Vehicle then checked at an official Fiat dealership. Any problems found , remedial work carried out .

Have I been looking in the wrong places , ref recall ? or have I been waffled at by the dealer and Fiat UK ?
 

RKE

Free Member
Sep 21, 2011
94
82
Somerset
Funster No
18,249
MH
Just sold ours!
Exp
10
hi

Before buying our MH ,I checked as much as I knew how to , ref possible problems with the X250 2.3 judder problem. Among the first checks being test drive ( no problems apparent ) , plus on to Fiat websites and VOSA recalls site . No recall details specifically regarding the reverse judder found.

Dealer told me there is no official recall on the problem. The procedure apparently being that it was/is done on a case for case basis if the customer contacts Fiat. Vehicle then checked at an official Fiat dealership. Any problems found , remedial work carried out .

Have I been looking in the wrong places , ref recall ? or have I been waffled at by the dealer and Fiat UK ?

No, As far as I'm aware your dealer is correct.... there never has been an official recall regarding this problem....
Indeed, it took some considerable efforts by certain individuals to get Fiat to even recognise there was a problem at all!

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Mar 2, 2011
506
986
uk
Funster No
15,500
MH
c.. autocruise starblazer
Exp
8 years
No, As far as I'm aware your dealer is correct.... there never has been an official recall regarding this problem....
Indeed, it took some considerable efforts by certain individuals to get Fiat to even recognise there was a problem at all!


Many thanks for your reply .I kind of thought that to be honest but just wanted to be sure . The dealer concerned is regularly at the major shows , so not really in their interest to get something like recalls wrong . I think I know who you mean regarding considerable efforts by individuals . Andy Stothart maybe?

So far no problems with our X250 engine MH. And it has had a fair bit of testing already , via reversing on hills during our trips .
 
OP
OP
2dogs

2dogs

Free Member
Nov 2, 2011
257
73
Devon
Funster No
18,737
MH
Autocruise Rhythm
Exp
Spring 2012
Thanks again,

We'll just have to go careful when sourcing the van.

Cheers
2dogs
 

hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
605
36,108
Macclesfield
Funster No
5,089
MH
Zilch Mk1
Exp
From Aug 2007
Indeed, it took some considerable efforts by certain individuals to get Fiat to even recognise there was a problem at all!

And boy did they fight dirty before the might of the internet got the better of them.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Aug 27, 2009
19,788
23,032
Hertfordshire
Funster No
8,178
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
40 years
In the majority of cases, judder is caused by driving technique, too much welly on start/reverse

Just let the clutch put with no accelerator and the van will move under the engine management system.
I say this as a driver of many motorhomes, not as a dealer.
Peter
i'm surprised that Fiat have wasted their time and money on recalls if there is no problem. Is there a problem or isn't there a problem.:Sad:
 

peter marshall

Free Member
Mar 5, 2009
2,466
1,704
Cleveleys,Lancashire
Funster No
5,822
MH
Low Line
Exp
9 Years
hi

Before buying our MH ,I checked as much as I knew how to , ref possible problems with the X250 2.3 judder problem. Among the first checks being test drive ( no problems apparent ) , plus on to Fiat websites and VOSA recalls site . No recall details specifically regarding the reverse judder found.

Dealer told me there is no official recall on the problem. The procedure apparently being that it was/is done on a case for case basis if the customer contacts Fiat. Vehicle then checked at an official Fiat dealership. Any problems found , remedial work carried out .

Have I been looking in the wrong places , ref recall ? or have I been waffled at by the dealer and Fiat UK ?

Hi Tom
No I had the same info from both Fiat Preston and Milan, But tested by Preston and autherised by Milan, good job done and always was pleased with the Fiat. Pete :thumb::thumb:
 

pat101

Free Member
Mar 16, 2008
42
25
cornwall
Funster No
1,829
Exp
3
Hi, Out of the two vans I have had 2.3 and the present 3.0 litre. The 2.3 had the judder but could be corrected by clutch and throttle control.

The 3.0 litre is fine apart from one thing!!. At about 9500 miles I had a main bearing failure which basically trashed the box. All fixed under warranty I should add.

Hopefully my problem was a one off but may be another consideration to take in when buying a van.

Pat.

ps also have transits as work vehicles which are complete shit.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
2dogs

2dogs

Free Member
Nov 2, 2011
257
73
Devon
Funster No
18,737
MH
Autocruise Rhythm
Exp
Spring 2012
Thanks about the transit Pat,

I was going to start another thread on alternative vehicles to the normal.

Cheers
2dogs
 
Mar 2, 2011
506
986
uk
Funster No
15,500
MH
c.. autocruise starblazer
Exp
8 years
Hi Tom
No I had the same info from both Fiat Preston and Milan, But tested by Preston and autherised by Milan, good job done and always was pleased with the Fiat. Pete :thumb::thumb:

Thanks Pete .

In fairness to Fiat and from what I have read recently , they do seem to be accepting of the problem now . With a willingness to work with customers in order to resolve issues....... As said earlier I have fortunately not had any problems . However its good to know that they are being positive about the issue .Which was clearly not the case in the early days of the problem.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
605
36,108
Macclesfield
Funster No
5,089
MH
Zilch Mk1
Exp
From Aug 2007
Thanks Pete .

In fairness to Fiat and from what I have read recently , they do seem to be accepting of the problem now .

Oh come on. FAIR ?

They did everything they could to dump their problem on their customers. Early ones were stung for new gearboxes, clutches because it was Driver Error.

They were eventually hammered into the ground by the magnificent efforts of one man in particular in the UK ( very sorry can't remember his name now ) and a few abroad.

Fair, don't be so &^&^%$£ generous.
 

peejay

Free Member
Jun 20, 2009
34
25
South Cheshire
Funster No
7,187
MH
WildAx
Exp
Started Nov '09
Juddert -what judder

Sorry to bring the subject up again:cry:

Does anyone know what the average mileage the "judder" would show itself and what percentage of vans have the problem?

I'm just a bit worried as I'm still looking for our first MH.

Cheers
2dogs

I bough my Wildaxe motorhome as a previous demo model with 38,000 miles on the clock, a Citroen relay. " does it judder?" no was the reply, being a trusting idiot I took it as true. Well after a test i found it did judder. I took it to the Citroen agent who said they would contact Citroen but not to hold my breath. Some time later the agent asked me to take it in to check the gearbox part number, after a while they said it had the wrong gearbox in and the would replace it along with the clutch and flywheel. After it was done I tested it and it still judders.
I work as a delivery driver in a Ford connect, I do about 200 to 300 miles a day and the van has now done 122,000 miles, it is often loaded to the limit and sometimes requires slipping the clutch. It never judders! If this van can stand that, and it does get a far mount of reversing, my Citroen will last because I don't reverse it very often or very far. I just hope the Citroen clutch is as good as the Ford.:Eeek:
 
Mar 2, 2011
506
986
uk
Funster No
15,500
MH
c.. autocruise starblazer
Exp
8 years
Oh come on. FAIR ?

They did everything they could to dump their problem on their customers. Early ones were stung for new gearboxes, clutches because it was Driver Error.

They were eventually hammered into the ground by the magnificent efforts of one man in particular in the UK ( very sorry can't remember his name now ) and a few abroad.

Fair, don't be so &^&^%$£ generous.

===========

Hello Brian .I dont mean for a moment that Fiat were being fair early on in the fiasco , far from it . Their earlier denial and handling of the problem caused grief and hardship to a lot of owners , for which Fiat deserve NO credit.

I mean "now" Fiat seem to be handling it in a more fair and customer oriented manner . Due in the main to the relentless pressures and great efforts which individuals like Andy Stothart put on them , giving Fiat a deserved PR roasting . The roll on being their "brand" and possibly bottom line took a deserved battering. They had a flawed product and even more flawed approach to dealing with the problem. So Fiat had to turn things around.



I"m not that naive that I credit them with turning things around purely to assist the customer . Them being benevolent doesnt come in to it. More like turning around the "brand " damage to their bottom line. Maybe overly generous , the word fair was used to reflect how they appear to approach the problem "now".

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top