Where to keep generator (1 Viewer)

golly

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I have been thinking of getting a small generator but wondered where do people keep them when traveling. I am not too sure if I like the idea of keeping it in the garage which is under the bed, a bit like having a petrol bomb under your pillow.:Eeek:.
The other option is solar, but I haven't got a lot of roof area, Maplins have a deal on a 60w free standing one. Anyone got a free standing panel and if so what do you think of them .

cheers

John
 

Wildman

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before you lash out on solar or a generator maybe you should tot up the amount of amp/hours you actually need to produce. do you stay on sites for long periods of time, use EHU, or do you wild camp moving every day sometime it is easier just to add another battery.
 

pappajohn

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my kipor lived in the rear locker along with a gallon of fuel.
as long as the tops are screwed on i had no fuel smell....and no fuel smell means no fuel vapour and no fire.

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chrisgreen

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we keep our little honda under the table when not in use but always run it out of fuel before stowing it.also makes it better to start when left with no fuel init as modern petrol goes stale very quickly.
i cannot see a problem with it sat in your garage as long at it has no fuel in it.


chris
 
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golly

golly

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before you lash out on solar or a generator maybe you should tot up the amount of amp/hours you actually need to produce. do you stay on sites for long periods of time, use EHU, or do you wild camp moving every day sometime it is easier just to add another battery.

At the moment I only have one battery, under the passenger seat, up to now we have stayed mainly on sites with EHU but do prefer smaller sites and it would be good to have the option.

We are going away in a couple of weeks to a none EHU site just to find out how long the battery will last, we have LED lights and the TV is just a 10" Avtex so not much drain, we don't watch much anyway.

John
 

slobadoberbob

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why do you think it is a time bomb?

I have been thinking of getting a small generator but wondered where do people keep them when traveling. I am not too sure if I like the idea of keeping it in the garage which is under the bed, a bit like having a petrol bomb under your pillow.:Eeek:.
The other option is solar, but I haven't got a lot of roof area, Maplins have a deal on a 60w free standing one. Anyone got a free standing panel and if so what do you think of them .

cheers

John

I wonder why you think it is a time bomb? I have a 4 kw generator mounted on the chassis as do most American RV's they normally run on petrol (some diesel and some LPG0 does it mean that the massive fuel tanks under my RV are a big bomb waiting to go off?

Generators do not just explode... in fact most small gennie have small fuel tanks.But Roger (Wildman) is correct you need to work out what it is you need from the power? are you trying to recharge the batteries (domestic / engine) or run a tv? or what equipment is it you want to power?

Do you have enough batteries and a inverter? how much can you draw from said batteries? how many watts do you need.

In the UK with our weather to make a real difference you need 2 x 160 watt solar panels and they are not great in cloudy or winter days.. ok to keep the batteries topped up but not to run serious equipment.

For example I run a mains 230v 26"tv a 1700 watt start up microwave... that needs serious power either from batteries or by generator. Most will settle for a 1kw or 2 kw genny to meet most of there needs.. BUt a 60 watt solar panel is a toy and will not get you far.

Ask about.. I am sure this post will produce (nearly said generate) so views I am sure.. work out what you need and then work out costs and benefits.


Bob:Eeek:

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Jim

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I always try to have a strap to a tie-down point on my genny, concious of the fact that a fraction of a second after my seat belt saves me from that low speed crash, a genny still doing 30mph hits me or one of the kids on the back of the head:Eeek:
 
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golly

golly

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I wonder why you think it is a time bomb? I have a 4 kw generator mounted on the chassis as do most American RV's they normally run on petrol (some diesel and some LPG0 does it mean that the massive fuel tanks under my RV are a big bomb waiting to go off?

Generators do not just explode... in fact most small gennie have small fuel tanks.But Roger (Wildman) is correct you need to work out what it is you need from the power? are you trying to recharge the batteries (domestic / engine) or run a tv? or what equipment is it you want to power?

Do you have enough batteries and a inverter? how much can you draw from said batteries? how many watts do you need.

In the UK with our weather to make a real difference you need 2 x 160 watt solar panels and they are not great in cloudy or winter days.. ok to keep the batteries topped up but not to run serious equipment.

For example I run a mains 230v 26"tv a 1700 watt start up microwave... that needs serious power either from batteries or by generator. Most will settle for a 1kw or 2 kw genny to meet most of there needs.. BUt a 60 watt solar panel is a toy and will not get you far.

Ask about.. I am sure this post will produce (nearly said generate) so views I am sure.. work out what you need and then work out costs and benefits.


Bob:Eeek:

I would only be using it to recharge habitation battery, wouldn't need to use any mains appliances, so were talking lights, tv, fan for the blown air heating when needed. It may well be more cost effective to just take the van out for a run to charge the battery.

John
 

icantremember

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lpg conversion

Hi John,

I too was concerned about petrol fumes in the m/h so we settled on small Honda with lpg conversion by Edge Technology......we always have lpg on board & don't have to worry about petrol cans! We store it in locker under a bed.

http://www.edgetechnology.co.uk

Brian

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pappajohn

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I always try to have a strap to a tie-down point on my genny, concious of the fact that a fraction of a second after my seat belt saves me from that low speed crash, a genny still doing 30mph hits me or one of the kids on the back of the head:Eeek:

Jim, problem easily sorted.....dont store it in an overhead locker :ROFLMAO:
 

GJH

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First of all I concur with what Roger (Wildman) said about calculating how much power you are likely to need. Secondly I am a fan of free-standing solar panels.

We bought a 50W version of the Link Removed free standing solar panel towards the back end of 2006, a few months after we bought our van.

At the time we had single a 85ah battery. We replaced that with a 110ah battery in March last year. We replaced our tungsten filament lighting with LED a couple of years ago. Our TV & satellite set-up is low power and we don't use it very much. We don't have blown-air heating but also don't use much heating anyway in the summer months.

We have never had a problem with running low on power in the months of March to September (which is when we use the van without EHU).

We were away in April for 12 days over 3 locations, none of which had EHU, and in May/June for 17 days in 4 locations, only the second of which (5 nights) had EHU. The panel was providing more than enough to keep the leisure battery topped up and for recharging of items like the netbook, phones and e-readers. In between the two trips I fitted a Battery Charge Master so the panel was keeping the starter battery topped up as well on the second trip.
 
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golly

golly

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Hi John,

I too was concerned about petrol fumes in the m/h so we settled on small Honda with lpg conversion by Edge Technology......we always have lpg on board & don't have to worry about petrol cans! We store it in locker under a bed.

http://www.edgetechnology.co.uk

Brian


thanks Brian, I have seen the gas conversion type advertised but it's a further cost, and I don't know if I could justify it.

John

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carl65

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I have two generators under the bed, Honda and Kipor never smelt any thing keep in the boxes they came in seems fine, but bring and buy this weekend so may relive myself of one of them !!!
 
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golly

golly

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First of all I concur with what Roger (Wildman) said about calculating how much power you are likely to need. Secondly I am a fan of free-standing solar panels.

We bought a 50W version of the Link Removed free standing solar panel towards the back end of 2006, a few months after we bought our van.

At the time we had single a 85ah battery. We replaced that with a 110ah battery in March last year. We replaced our tungsten filament lighting with LED a couple of years ago. Our TV & satellite set-up is low power and we don't use it very much. We don't have blown-air heating but also don't use much heating anyway in the summer months.

We have never had a problem with running low on power in the months of March to September (which is when we use the van without EHU).

We were away in April for 12 days over 3 locations, none of which had EHU, and in May/June for 17 days in 4 locations, only the second of which (5 nights) had EHU. The panel was providing more than enough to keep the leisure battery topped up and for recharging of items like the netbook, phones and e-readers. In between the two trips I fitted a Battery Charge Master so the panel was keeping the starter battery topped up as well on the second trip.

Thanks Graham, There is a charge Master fitted to the van, was on when I got it. One thing I thought of was security of a free standing unit. I presume you haven't had any problems.

John
 

gozomike

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Hi John


I have been using one of the 40 watt folding panels from
Link Removed since the Peterborough show.



As stated it gives just over 2 amps when in direct sun light and kept at a reasonable angle to the sun. Great at shows, it has worked well for me. Security could be a problem it’s OK when you are near the van but I would not like to leave it out in a lot of locations.



They are on sale at most of the shows and it is easy to connect them.



Mike

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golly

golly

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Hi John


I have been using one of the 40 watt folding panels from Link Removed since the Peterborough show.



As stated it gives just over 2 amps when in direct sun light and kept at a reasonable angle to the sun. Great at shows, it has worked well for me. Security could be a problem it’s OK when you are near the van but I would not like to leave it out in a lot of locations.


They are on sale at most of the shows and it is easy to connect them.


Mike

Thanks Mike I saw this one advertised at Maplin Link Removed

seems a good price, but I know nothing about the technical side of solar power.

John
 

icantremember

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I picked up my lpg converted genny on fleebay, almost unused for around 400 squid & for convenience have an external gas point on the m/h..........they are out there.

Brian
 

pappajohn

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have a read of this (Solar panel types) about efficiency before buying solar panels......

Oh!!! and the maplins amorphous panel isnt waterproof......only weatherproof....so would need fully sealing with silicone sealer etc

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GJH

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Thanks Graham, There is a charge Master fitted to the van, was on when I got it. One thing I thought of was security of a free standing unit. I presume you haven't had any problems.

John

The panel we have has a security cable attached (top right of the pic on the page I linked to). It came with a padlock which I didn't think very good so bought a bike cable with combination lock. I can attach it to the front tie down eye or the hab step at the rear of the van (depending which end is most convenient for how we are pitched).

Last time Aldi had the siren padlocks on offer we got an end of line one that had been reduced. Fits nicely over the upper crossbar on the stand.

Nothing is totally thief proof but we've used the panel at various shows, meets, CLs and not had a problem.
 

GJH

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have a read of this (Solar panel types) about efficiency before buying solar panels......

Oh!!! and the maplins amorphous panel isnt waterproof......only weatherproof....so would need fully sealing with silicone sealer etc

Very good point. I'm sure ours is crystalline rather than amorphous. It's been used in everything from hot sun to heavy hail over the last 4 and a half years and never suffered any ill effects.
 

wasp

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Squire

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we keep our little honda under the table when not in use but always run it out of fuel before stowing it.also makes it better to start when left with no fuel init as modern petrol goes stale very quickly.
i cannot see a problem with it sat in your garage as long at it has no fuel in it.


chris


Does it? That's a new one on me. How does it go stale? I can understand it evaporating and disappearing if the filler cap isn't sealed properly, but 'stale'? Sometimes I have to leave my car parked up for two or three months at a time but I've never noticed anything amiss when it's been re-started. Always seemed perfect. Same with my chain saw, too - and that's often left several months although I expect the petrol-oil ratio WILL have altered as the petrol evaporates. Still re-starts OK though.
 

chrisgreen

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if i leave my little 125 with petrol in the carb for more than a week it wont start untill i drain out the carb.
if i leave my chainsaw for months with petrol init it will start after to or three pulls.
if i leave my 1100 motorbike more than a week it wont start untill i drain the carbs down.
my mowers fuel goes stale.
if you leave a can of fuel sealed it wont go stale.
the chainsaw fuel tank is sealed.
the bikes tanks are sealed but the carbs are not so the fuel left in the carbs goes stale.
is your car injection.
if it is,this would explain why the fuel does not go stale.
a guy posted a thread on the darkside that he could not start his genny ,done the all the things like cleaning the plug and stuff after about 10 posts later i posted change the fuel and drain the carb after doing this it started.
his fuel had gone stale.
when you prime your chainsaw you are pumping fresh fuel around the diapram(sp) from a sealed tank.

chris
 
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old-mo

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Does it? That's a new one on me. How does it go stale? I can understand it evaporating and disappearing if the filler cap isn't sealed properly, but 'stale'? Sometimes I have to leave my car parked up for two or three months at a time but I've never noticed anything amiss when it's been re-started. Always seemed perfect. Same with my chain saw, too - and that's often left several months although I expect the petrol-oil ratio WILL have altered as the petrol evaporates. Still re-starts OK though.

This write up is long winded but informative.. :thumb:

Google is your friend.


According to Shell Australia’s Technical Advice Centre Manager, Warren Scott, you can generally store fuel in a sealed container for around six months before it starts to deteriorate. This assumes it’s kept relatively cool and away from direct sunlight.

“But if the container is not properly sealed or it’s repeatedly opened, [fuel] will start to evaporate and you lose some of the light components in the fuel,” Mr Warren says.

Those light components include highly important butane. As these components are lost, the fuel loses its volatility. Mr Warren says this makes the car difficult to start.

In warm conditions, fuel is especially prone to oxidisation which causes lacquer and gums to form. As a result, the fuel turns dark in colour, loses its clarity and smells like paint stripper.


Gary Whitfield, Senior Fuel Chemist at BP Australia, says that in the right conditions, fuel can last up to 12 months. But once the container is opened, the fuel will start to degrade.

“Once the seal is broken, a vapour space is formed in the container and the fuel will start to deteriorate more rapidly,” he says.

Okay, so what about fuel that’s left in your car’s tank for a long period of time?

Mr Whitfield claims fuel in a car’s tank can last for up to four weeks before it becomes considerably denser. When this happens, the engine is effectively over-fuelled (without any change in injector pulse-width) and there’s an increased chance of carbon deposition onto spark plugs and inside the combustion chamber. This can cause driveability problems such as stutters and misses.

“Regular unleaded fuel will lose a small amount of octane over time but in our low-sulphur and high detergent Ultimate fuel it might increase very slightly. It might increase 1 RON in four weeks – but it’s not something I’d bother chasing,” he says.

“Keep in mind that typical variation in BP Ultimate is 98 – 100 RON while normal unleaded ranges between 91 – 93 RON.”


Mr Warren says that in most cases, it’s only when fuel is left in the tank for several months there’s the risk of engine damage. This is much more likely to occur in cars running dual LPG/petrol systems.

“By this time the fuel will have gone dark and gummy and can clag the fuel pump, filter and injectors,” Mr Warren says. It can also leave a lacquer deposit on the inside of the fuel tank which is difficult to remove.

In addition, it’s important to be aware that fuel brews – specifically fuel volatility - varies on a month to month basis. Standards vary from state to state but, generally, volatility is reduced during summer months to reduce evaporative emissions. Mr Whitfield says this typically makes the engine slightly harder to start but there is no change in octane.


Lachlan Riddel, proprietor of Gold Coast based tuning company ChipTorque, frequently dyno tests cars which have not previously been driven for several weeks.

“On the fuel mix we have in Queensland, I think fuel in a car’s tank is starting to go off in around three weeks,” Mr Riddel says. “We can tune a car, put it away for three of four weeks, come back to it and it will be either closer to detonation or less likely to make the same power.

“I think local fuel is brewed to reduce evaporative emissions in warm weather and, maybe because of that, fuel really goes crappy in eight to ten weeks. By that stage, the fuel is extremely prone to detonation.”

Interestingly, Mr Riddel hasn’t noticed the engine becoming harder to start but the effect on octane is pronounced.

Similarly, the General Manager of Melbourne’s Advanced Vehicle Operations, Steve Coates, believes fuel tends to go off in a car’s fuel tank quite quickly once it’s a couple of weeks old.

“After a couple of weeks not driving a car, I find that it will be closer to detonation than it was at the time of tuning on the chassis dyno,” he says.

“And the brand of fuel seems to make a difference as well – I find that Mobil and BP products are probably the best after being stored but Shell Optimax is really good when it’s new."

Clearly, there are some important factors to keep in mind when storing fuel in a container for several months or when parking your car for a few weeks.

Our recommendation is not to run the engine at high load with fuel that’s been in the tank for any more than three of four weeks and it’s a good idea to add at least 25 percent fresh fuel to the tank every few weeks. This will help ensure there are no fuel-related driveability problems or detonation and will reduce the chance of lacquer building up inside the tank.

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Jan 11, 2010
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Well that`s our 13th year & still loving it.
stale fuel

The most important factor in all of this for those that aren`t technically minded is that the lighter components in fuels will evaporate thus making it more difficult for them to ignite.
You can actually see this happen, spill a little petrol and watch it dissappear before your eyes, also notice that any petrol you spill on your hands evaporates very quickly leaving behind a film.
 

chrisgreen

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This write up is long winded but informative.. :thumb:

Google is your friend.


According to Shell Australia’s Technical Advice Centre Manager, Warren Scott, you can generally store fuel in a sealed container for around six months before it starts to deteriorate. This assumes it’s kept relatively cool and away from direct sunlight.

“But if the container is not properly sealed or it’s repeatedly opened, [fuel] will start to evaporate and you lose some of the light components in the fuel,” Mr Warren says.

Those light components include highly important butane. As these components are lost, the fuel loses its volatility. Mr Warren says this makes the car difficult to start.

In warm conditions, fuel is especially prone to oxidisation which causes lacquer and gums to form. As a result, the fuel turns dark in colour, loses its clarity and smells like paint stripper.


Gary Whitfield, Senior Fuel Chemist at BP Australia, says that in the right conditions, fuel can last up to 12 months. But once the container is opened, the fuel will start to degrade.

“Once the seal is broken, a vapour space is formed in the container and the fuel will start to deteriorate more rapidly,” he says.

Okay, so what about fuel that’s left in your car’s tank for a long period of time?

Mr Whitfield claims fuel in a car’s tank can last for up to four weeks before it becomes considerably denser. When this happens, the engine is effectively over-fuelled (without any change in injector pulse-width) and there’s an increased chance of carbon deposition onto spark plugs and inside the combustion chamber. This can cause driveability problems such as stutters and misses.

“Regular unleaded fuel will lose a small amount of octane over time but in our low-sulphur and high detergent Ultimate fuel it might increase very slightly. It might increase 1 RON in four weeks – but it’s not something I’d bother chasing,” he says.

“Keep in mind that typical variation in BP Ultimate is 98 – 100 RON while normal unleaded ranges between 91 – 93 RON.”


Mr Warren says that in most cases, it’s only when fuel is left in the tank for several months there’s the risk of engine damage. This is much more likely to occur in cars running dual LPG/petrol systems.

“By this time the fuel will have gone dark and gummy and can clag the fuel pump, filter and injectors,” Mr Warren says. It can also leave a lacquer deposit on the inside of the fuel tank which is difficult to remove.

In addition, it’s important to be aware that fuel brews – specifically fuel volatility - varies on a month to month basis. Standards vary from state to state but, generally, volatility is reduced during summer months to reduce evaporative emissions. Mr Whitfield says this typically makes the engine slightly harder to start but there is no change in octane.


Lachlan Riddel, proprietor of Gold Coast based tuning company ChipTorque, frequently dyno tests cars which have not previously been driven for several weeks.

“On the fuel mix we have in Queensland, I think fuel in a car’s tank is starting to go off in around three weeks,” Mr Riddel says. “We can tune a car, put it away for three of four weeks, come back to it and it will be either closer to detonation or less likely to make the same power.

“I think local fuel is brewed to reduce evaporative emissions in warm weather and, maybe because of that, fuel really goes crappy in eight to ten weeks. By that stage, the fuel is extremely prone to detonation.”

Interestingly, Mr Riddel hasn’t noticed the engine becoming harder to start but the effect on octane is pronounced.

Similarly, the General Manager of Melbourne’s Advanced Vehicle Operations, Steve Coates, believes fuel tends to go off in a car’s fuel tank quite quickly once it’s a couple of weeks old.

“After a couple of weeks not driving a car, I find that it will be closer to detonation than it was at the time of tuning on the chassis dyno,” he says.

“And the brand of fuel seems to make a difference as well – I find that Mobil and BP products are probably the best after being stored but Shell Optimax is really good when it’s new."

Clearly, there are some important factors to keep in mind when storing fuel in a container for several months or when parking your car for a few weeks.

Our recommendation is not to run the engine at high load with fuel that’s been in the tank for any more than three of four weeks and it’s a good idea to add at least 25 percent fresh fuel to the tank every few weeks. This will help ensure there are no fuel-related driveability problems or detonation and will reduce the chance of lacquer building up inside the tank.

i rest my case my lord:thumb:
i was going to post that i find cheap supermarket fuel the worse.

chris
 
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I know of a number of motor cyclists in North America who, when forced to put their bikes away for the winter put a can of fuel stabiliser in the tanks, I dont know if this is available here but may be worth looking at!

On a personal level I know when I leave my Triumph Trophy in the garage for any length of time, I have to crank it quite a lot to start it. (Four Carbs to refill with new fuel). Whilst the blackbird starts instantly if left for the same period (fuel injection) so no old fuel to burn first!!

This proves that what others have said makes sense to me.

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callumwa

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Since I moved back from France, my Yamaha Diversion 900 (carbs not injection of course) has been in my garage. I brought it back from France in the back of a van. It had not been started or turned over for way over 4 years.:Doh:

The battery was so cream crackered, even before I brought it back to UK, that it would not turn the engine over, even four years ago.. I recently decided I would put the bike back on the road, and had some spare time so I bought a new battery four weeks ago. I envisaged it could be a real pain to get it to start up.

After fitting the new well charged battery, with much trepidation I opened the choke fully, twisted the throttle a few times and nervously pressed the start button for about 5 seconds. Engine turned over (Great) but did not fire (Not surprised). I expect the carburetors would have been bone dry before I started. I waited about 30 seconds, hit the button again and much to my surprise and joy, the engine fired into life, and on all 4 cylinders at that.:thumb::thumb:

The tank had been just over a quarter full (about 7 litres) for over 4 and a half years since I last rode it. French supermarket fuel at that. I overhauled the brakes (which not surprisingly were binding a bit) and fitted a new stainless collector box (4 - 2) which had rotted as the original always do. Took it for its MOT and it sailed through......

I took it for a long run, till the fuel light came on and have to say noticed no difference in performance between my four and a half year old fuel, and the fresh fuel I topped up with.

Nothing "stale" noticed there... Just so happy to have the bike back on the road, it's great.::bigsmile:::bigsmile:
 

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