Bewarned if you only use part year (1 Viewer)

slobadoberbob

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Motorists are being warned that from 20 June they must insure all vehicles even if kept in the garage. The Continuous Insurance Enforcement law will make it an offence to keep an uninsured vehicle, rather than just to drive when uninsured. It looks like a con trick by insurers to make more money. It will not stop criminals driving with no insurance.



The Motor Insurers' Bureau (MIB) reckons 1.4 million vehicles are driven uninsured causing 23,000 accidents and killing 160 people a year.

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The MIB is launching a national advertising campaign today to raise awareness of the law. But honest keepers of more than one vehicle could face paying a fortune in even though they have done nothing wrong.

And the government is in on the con trick. Road safety minister Mike Penning said: "Uninsured drivers are a danger on our roads, killing 160 and injuring a further 23,000 people each year, and they cost honest motorists £500m in extra premiums.

"That is why we are introducing this tough new law that will leave uninsured drivers with nowhere to hide. Our message is clear – get insured or face a fine, court action or seeing your car seized and destroyed."

Con trick

The way the law has been framed fails to target criminals, who will continue to ignore the rules given that fines remain lower than insurance premiums. Instead it hits honest vehicle owners who keep several vehicles at home and insure only the one they need to drive.

Ashton West, MIB chief executive, said: "The change in law is a stepping up of enforcement activity, so that not only those vehicles driven without insurance will be caught. Now the registered keeper must make sure that their vehicle is insured all the time."

It is just a cash-generating trick for the insurers that fund the MIB. "Around 4% of vehicles have no motor insurance at any given time, and this needs to change so that is why this new enforcement approach is so important."

Put on the spot, the MIB cannot say how many unisured vehicles are actually being driven. Its published statement claims that 1.4 million motorists drive uninsured, but when pushed, the MIB admits that all it really knows in that 1.4 million vehicles are uninsured at any time. It has no idea how many of them are driven.

Under the new system:

The DVLA and MIB will collaborate to identify uninsured vehicles. Motorists will receive a letter telling them that their vehicle appears to be uninsured and warning them that they will be fined unless they take action. If the keeper fails to insure the vehicle they will be given a £100 fine.

If the vehicle remains uninsured - regardless of whether the fine is paid – further action will be taken. If the vehicle is on public land it could then be clamped, seized and destroyed. Alternatively court action could be taken, with the offender facing a fine of up to £1,000.

The only exception will be for vehicles with a valid Statutory Off Road Notice (SORN). They will not be required to be insured.

So be warned if you lay your motorhome up part year and do not SORN it you could get caught.

Bob:thumb:
 

Snowbird

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As I understood it if the vehicle was on a SORN it was exempt from the new law.
Has this changed in any way.
 

scotjimland

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Frankly I don't see the issue, why would you tax but not insure your motorhome/car .. and even if you SORN it and keep on the drive, it is still at risk from fire and theft.

This rule is to try and stop those who take out insurance to simply enable taxing then cancel the policy or not keep up the payments.. it certainly won't stop those who drive and have no intention of paying the tax or buying insurance.
 

Landy lover

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Frankly I don't see the issue, why would you tax but not insure your motorhome/car .. and even if you SORN it and keep on the drive, it is still at risk from fire and theft.

This rule is to try and stop those who take out insurance to simply enable taxing then cancel the policy or not keep up the payments.. it certainly won't stop those who drive and have no intention of paying the tax or buying insurance.

I do know people who have one insurance and move it between vehicles when they decide to drive them yet have the tax on all of them :Eeek: sometimes just for 6/12 . They seem to think that as they are on their own property they are safe from fire theft etc.

This new ruling does nothing to stop people flouting the law and driving without insurance and making genuine law abiding motorists pay the cost
 

Wildman

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They seem to think that as they are on their own property they are safe from fire theft etc.

not safe from fire and theft but prepared to cover my own risks, plus if I want to MOT one of the other vehicles I was able to transfer the insurance for a day (leaving the second taxed vehicle parked on the smallholding) Paying tax and insurance on two vehicles at a time is bad enough without taking out yet another insurance just to get a vehicle MOT'd and drive it back home to possibly sit in the workshop being repaired for a further few months. It is just a tax on ownership. time the driver was insured and not the vehicle!!!!!! with seperate fire and theft insurance on the individual vehicle if required.

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hilldweller

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Con trick
The way the law has been framed fails to target crim
Bob:thumb:

And the insurers are making a fool of the government. Now instead of the vehicle lying idle taxed, we have to surrender the licence so taking money out of the public purse. Insurers 1 : Government (us) 0.

When will they add MOT into the system, no MOT so have to SORN it ?? Possible never because the Geo's of this world do not have the clout to lobby for this.
 

callumwa

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The majority of those who drive without insurance do it because they cannot afford it or more often than not they just do not care, and have no concern about others they could affect.

They do not normally bother to register the cars they are using, so any offence detected by NPR , speed cameras or parking tickets never comes back to them.

So will they be bothered about Tax discs and SORN? No of course not, not in the slightest.:Doh:

Yet another draconian law which send out automated penalty notices to normal law abiding folk who have rightfully declared their ownership, and for many reasons may forget or are unable to make these ever tiresome and tedious SORN declarations. But will the faceless computer at DVLA listen.. I don't think so...:Eeek:

So new proposals to tackle uninsured drivers..... My :moon2: ...

Just another attack and indirect tax to screw yet more out of the normally law abiding motorist...:cry:...
 

Terry

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Hi all, as I understand it they are trying to get people to admit which vehicles are owned by who ?
If you own a vehicle and are not the registered keeper it just makes you register it.If you then do not use it you simply SORN it and keep it off road just like normal :thumb: but now it will be registered to you and as such make you responsible if it is used :thumb:It is a simple way of getting vehicle owners details that responsible owners already do :thumb: If it is neither SORN or registered then they have the law on-side to crush it.
It will not stop people from doing what they want but they run the risk of the vehicle been taken.It will also stop/keep check on dealers as they will have to register all the cars they have in stock/sold :winky:
terry

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Peter JohnsCross MH

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It will also stop/keep check on dealers as they will have to register all the cars they have in stock/sold :winky:
terry


We already register all our stock vehicles on the insurance data base and notify DVLA when the vehicle is sold. We don't want the parking and speeding tickets, stops all that.


Only exeption would be temporary one if I have bought a van and drive it to dealeship but its covered under our trade policy as I can drive anything on that.

Peter
 

Terry

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Yes Peter I know that :thumb: (just ending my own trade policy)What I ment is it also tells the tax man what you have /not had :winky:Not for your case but some cash dealers may be affected :Doh::cry::winky:
terry
 

callumwa

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Hi all, as I understand it they are trying to get people to admit which vehicles are owned by who ?
If you own a vehicle and are not the registered keeper it just makes you register it.If you then do not use it you simply SORN it and keep it off road just like normal :thumb: but now it will be registered to you and as such make you responsible if it is used :thumb:It is a simple way of getting vehicle owners details that responsible owners already do :thumb: If it is neither SORN or registered then they have the law on-side to crush it.
It will not stop people from doing what they want but they run the risk of the vehicle been taken.It will also stop/keep check on dealers as they will have to register all the cars they have in stock/sold :winky:
terry

Do you think so Terry?

All the good guys, register their vehicles, pay their tax, insure it as required, SORN it if necessary...... they are doing it already.

The toe-rags who flout the laws, drive without insurance, don't tax their cars, will continue to do the same.
Do you think they will be concerned if their £200, non MOT'd, non insured, un-taxed banger, gets noticed on the road, gets towed away and crushed. They will not give a toss.

Just to collect it from a pound will cost more than its worth, so they just go out and get another banger without registering it. Do you think this policy will suddenly make them register these vehicles, on the contrary it will have the opposite effect.

If the toe-rags actually taxed, (£100 to £400+), insured (£200 to £2000+) and MOT'd (£50 to £1000's) they may actually care, but then they think why pay £100's or £1000's to comply with the law in a car worth £200. If they are not caught whilst actually driving, they don't get caught, full stop!

So who wins here, nobody except the insurance companies and HMRC.... the good guys pay more in insurance and penalties. The toe-rags laugh!

Never mind messing around the sides with stupid two bit rules, put more proper Police traffic patrols back on the road, pulling suspect cars over and actually catching, prosecuting and deterring the growing uninsured ranks, who flout and laugh at the rest of us suckers who commit the heinous crime of being law abiding vehicle owners....:shout::shout:

Callum

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Vehicles need fuel, more and more petrol staions are using number plate cameras/recorders to help against drive offs, so if these were linked into police/VOSA/insurance/MOT etc etc databases surely that would be a more efficient way to detect and catch the uninsured/unlicenced/untaxed idiots? You could fit all petrol stations with BIG spikes to scewer the wrong ones:ROFLMAO: OK maybe not, but an alert to the local police (if there were any) and who knows?

Just a thought....
 

Terry

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Hi Callum No not for one second do I think it will bother the bad guys :ROFLMAO: as you say they will not give a toss :Doh:All it is doing is making / giving people chance to register etc,It also gives them the power to take vehicles off peoples drives etc,They often have a trawl around here looking at none taxed cars on peoples drives,but now if not sorn or insured (sorn type) they can get them
terry
 

scotjimland

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The toe-rags who flout the laws, drive without insurance, don't tax their cars, will continue to do the same.
Do you think they will be concerned if their £200, non MOT'd, non insured, un-taxed banger, gets noticed on the road, gets towed away and crushed. They will not give a toss.


Callum

as this pic taken in Glasgow illustrates ( courtesy of Jock ) ... :roflmto:

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callumwa

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Hi Callum No not for one second do I think it will bother the bad guys :ROFLMAO: as you say they will not give a toss :Doh:All it is doing is making / giving people chance to register etc,It also gives them the power to take vehicles off peoples drives etc,They often have a trawl around here looking at none taxed cars on peoples drives,but now if not sorn or insured (sorn type) they can get them
terry

Terry, people already have the chance, in fact a legal obligation, to register the vehicle when they buy it, by completing the relevant section on the V5, Failure to do so is already an offence! Instead of trawling peoples drives to "get them", they should be trawling the roads for moving vehicles committing serious offences endangering the public.

Why do the authorities want or need powers to take vehicles off peoples driveways. This is a costly time consuming exercise to achieve just what exactly. Will they also want to pry inside my garage? That sounds more like bailiffs rather than Police Officers.

Surely we should have the right to own a vehicle and keep it safely off the road when we wish, for whatever reason. I can already SORN it to cover the road tax aspect.

If I have an old scooter in my garage, or a car or motorhome on my drive which I am renovating, why should I have to insure them for third party risk. Is it going to bite the postman?

It's my property, if its in pieces, does not drive, why do I require Road Traffic act Insurance...... It's not on a road where it can cause a risk to a third party.
If it is of low value I can choose whether to cover it for fire or theft and take that risk upon myself.

I just think this is further invasive and unnecessary "Big Brother" legislation to make new revenue streams. It makes no sense to me. :Eeek:

Callum
 

scotjimland

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If I have an old scooter in my garage, or a car or motorhome on my drive which I am renovating, why should I have to insure them for third party risk.

Callum

Why would you have said project road taxed .. and if it still has tax it's easy to SORN it .. I really don't see what the fuss is about .. . it can lay on your drive untaxed and uninsured. ..

If they were saying it MUST be insured whether taxed or not, that would be a different story .

I just think this is further invasive and unnecessary "Big Brother" legislation to make new revenue streams. It makes no sense to me.

How is this generating an extra revenue steam ? If your renovating it's actually saving you money ..
 
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slobadoberbob

slobadoberbob

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I think some of you are missing the point

I sat back after I posted this article to see what response it got.. certainly different from the RVOC.. I wonder why.

My take on this is HMRC which was noted in one of the posts. If every vehilcle is taxed and then insured (tax on the insurance) the government gets more revenue from the RFL and the tax on the insurance policy.

I accept and I did put it in the article towards the end that it has no effect on SWORN vehicles. It is going to hit the likes of Roger (Wildman) who wants to switch cover on any vehicle he is using. His argument and I accept it is that the vehicle is on his land and does not have to be insured. He has it registered and taxed.

Let me put a spanner in the works if I may.. I for my sins am a director a a housing trust with 70,000 houses in the group. We have lots of ex council estates and council roads and lots of un taxed and un insured vehicles .. yes we do remove them as we are allowed to under the terms of the tenancy agreements.. but there still are thousands in gardens which we do not know if they are insured or even taxed or have an MOT.. we can police our estates but I bet a lot of those in gardens or garages go on the road from time to time.

As I pay insurance on my RV and two cars and all are taxed and registered it does not effect me. I know it will effect some of you.. it is the ones that forget the SWORN is coming up to renew or have forgotten the insurance issues.

It may be old news to some of you, but I posted this to draw your attention that the law changes on the 2nd June... i.e next week.

Please do not shoot the messenger.

Bob:Eeek:

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Terry

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Hi Callum you are missing the point :Smile: If you have an old scooter in your garage (I have) it should be registered to you (mine is not :ROFLMAO:) and then you need to both SORN it and have the equivalent of Sorn for insurance :thumb: You do not have to have it insured :thumb: that's where people are getting mixed up :Eeek: you simply have to have it registered in your name and have a disclaimer for ins same as sorn :Doh:::bigsmile:All they want to know is who the owner is :thumb::Doh:
terry
 

Wildman

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i think everyone is missing the point any vehicle that is taxed should be insured. No tax then sorn it and the insurance then becomes a matter of choice. It will however stop me moving insurance from one vehicle to another even though I insure owner only driving and my wife does not drive.Both my van and motorhome insurances refund sod all if surrendered before the term is up
so effectively I may have to take out a third insurance just to take one of the landrovers for an MOT. (oh yes and have to remember to SORN it straight after the MOT if not going straight on the road even if it already declared SORN)
Time I think for horse and cart, much cheaper to run.
 

callumwa

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Hi Callum you are missing the point :Smile: If you have an old scooter in your garage (I have) it should be registered to you (mine is not :ROFLMAO:) and then you need to both SORN it and have the equivalent of Sorn for insurance :thumb: You do not have to have it insured :thumb: that's where people are getting mixed up :Eeek: you simply have to have it registered in your name and have a disclaimer for ins same as sorn :Doh:::bigsmile:All they want to know is who the owner is :thumb::Doh:
terry

Hi Terry, Jim,

From the first part of Bob's OP;

"Motorists are being warned that from 20 June they must insure all vehicles even if kept in the garage. The Continuous Insurance Enforcement law will make it an offence to keep an uninsured vehicle, rather than just to drive when uninsured"

From that I (mis)understood that it had to be insured regardless.

So I know now having been to http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_067639 that if it is sorned you will be ok. I missed that at the end of the OP...:Blush::Blush:

The problem though is, this is supposed to reduce uninsured drivers and target "criminals", I think it will do the opposite.
They toe-rags will now not even MOT, tax, or register, never mind insure their vehicles, so as to evade any convictions.
They may be toe-rags but they are not all dumb toe-rags. People who have never registered or insured their vehicles, so therefore are not "in the system", will never receive these FPN's then fines and prosecution points.

We have heard of so many genuine (non-criminal) people having problems with the SORN system, especially online, then getting penalties and the DVLA telling them to prove they SORNED online. I have always tried to do it at the Post Office so I get a receipt.

Also you cannot SORN in advance, so If you leave the country for a few months and have no internet access, (I do not trust with the DVLA online system anyway) you are stuffed.

I had this problem last year, when I tried to SORN whilst I was away, and the V5 was at the wrong end of the country. What a nightmare with DVLA...

So it will just once again stuff the good guys who genuinely forget, or make an oversight, or are out of the country, ill in hospital, or pre-occupied caring for an ill relative, (SORN is last thing on your mind then), or even worse are a victim of the crappy DVLA "mothership computer" which has it's own justice system... "Guilty until proved innocent"......:Doh:

But of course, makes sense for "Big Brother" to target the good guys because it's the good guys who always pay......

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movan

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:Sad: And I have DEFINITELY missed the point. I can't find an insurer anywhere that will insure my Sorned trike for Fire and Theft only. They are insisting to insure it then it will need to be fully comprehensive. I know it doesn't make sense but that is what more than one insurance company told me.:Sad:nWhether that only applies to trikes I don't know.
 

callumwa

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:Sad: And I have DEFINITELY missed the point. I can't find an insurer anywhere that will insure my Sorned trike for Fire and Theft only. They are insisting to insure it then it will need to be fully comprehensive. I know it doesn't make sense but that is what more than one insurance company told me.:Sad:nWhether that only applies to trikes I don't know.

I have recently re-insured a scooter and a 900cc motorbike.

In both cases Comprehensive cover was cheaper than TPFT and TP only, by a big margin.... amazing. :Eeek:

And when I put the wife (who has not even passed a CBT yet and just has a provisional) onto the scooter cover and it reduced the price again.... EVEN MORE AMAZING!:Eeek:
 

movan

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Thanks Callumna. That's what they told me too about the Comp cover. It just confused me ... but then it doesn't take much these days. :thumb:

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Terry

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i think everyone is missing the point any vehicle that is taxed should be insured. No tax then sorn it and the insurance then becomes a matter of choice. It will however stop me moving insurance from one vehicle to another even though I insure owner only driving and my wife does not drive.Both my van and motorhome insurances refund sod all if surrendered before the term is up
so effectively I may have to take out a third insurance just to take one of the landrovers for an MOT. (oh yes and have to remember to SORN it straight after the MOT if not going straight on the road even if it already declared SORN)
Time I think for horse and cart, much cheaper to run.

WHY? Roger as I understand it you have the option of declaring it off road sorn (un-taxed) and then you declare it uninsured (don't know the name :ROFLMAO:)When you want to test it you simply swop your ins as you do now and then go through the SORN bits again along with the ins bit :thumb:They have not got the man power to check or find vehicles in garages nor will they want to.It is only the ones they can see :winky: and probably suspect are getting used illegally that they should be interested in.The legal bit comes when it has a registered keeper :Eeek:ALL VEHICLES DO NOT HAVE TO BE INSURED just SORN and the insurance equivalent of sorn and have a registered keeper

terry
Unless I have misunderstood :ROFLMAO:::bigsmile:
 

combi

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We have two trials motorbikes that are never used on the road and have never been registered , will this new legislation affect me?

Thanks in advance

cakeboy
 

Road Runner

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Is sorned vehicle on the way to booked MOT still OK?

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Road Runner

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We have two trials motorbikes that are never used on the road and have never been registered , will this new legislation affect me?

Thanks in advance

cakeboy

If they don't know about them (i.e. never registered) should be OK as not used on public roadway.
 
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Someone I know had their van in storage and SORNed and no insurance-guess what the van was nicked and they still had payments on it-there is a lesson there.
The MID needs to get its act together. It takes 2 weeks for a renewal or new policy to get on the database. If the insurers are 'zapping' the information down the line why the delay*?
I couldn't retax my van online this year because my details weren't on the database. I had to take the documents into town to the Post Office luckily it only took a few minutes,no forms to fill in they just scanned the barcodes.
What if there wasn't a Post Office or it was my only vehicle?

All this efficiency is great-when it works.

*PICNIC=problem in chair not in computer
 

callumwa

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Thanks Callumna. That's what they told me too about the Comp cover. It just confused me ... but then it doesn't take much these days. :thumb:

Hi Movan,

I know that feeling only too well and too often these days...:Doh:

callum (confused.com)

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