Reclassified Van (1 Viewer)

[Otter Spotter]

In April of this year I sent the relevant pack of photos etc of my van to the DVLA to get it reclassified from Light Goods Van to Motor caravan, finally I have had a response and a new v5 and it’s been reclassified as Van/side windows Light goods.
In the accompanying letter the writer Chichanok Rees ( haven’t a clue whether he or she is Alaskian Inuit or can’t spell) does not say why the external alterations do not comply, though he or she does acknowledge that the internals work for them.
why could they not tell me what is missing? I await a response but is this just another sign of civil servants not interested ?

 

[XxAnthxX]

It really seams to be a lottery these days and does appear to depend on the DVLA person processing the application on the day.

Does your van meet the five items under the heading permanent external features on the Motor caravan conversion checklist?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/840319/v1006-motor-caravan-conversion-checklist.pdf

Converting a vehicle into a motor caravan (motor home)

www.gov.uk

 

[Two on Tour]

Having read and seen YouTube videos of other peoples recent attempts to get the DVLA to reclassify their van, it usually rejected on the externals not meeting the DVLA's interpretation set out in their guidance blurb.

I obviously have not see the photos of the externals of your van, but looking at your van in your avatar, with all the black glass down the side, would the Police think it was a 17 seater minibus rather than a camper van ?
Things like a bike rack on the back and a wind out awning firmly put in in the frame as a camper van.

Maybe "I love my camper van" big letters over the windows on each side would satisfy the box tickers at the DVLA and then remove the letter when you have the V5 you want in your hands.

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[Otter Spotter]

It really seams to be a lottery these days and does appear to depend on the DVLA person processing the application on the day.

Does your van meet the five items under the heading permanent external features on the Motor caravan conversion checklist?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/840319/v1006-motor-caravan-conversion-checklist.pdf

Hi, yes it does comply with all the 5 points they have in the list.

 

[34127]

Even the professional converters are having problems and the vehicle classified as van with windows. It is only a description on the V5 document and doesn't in any way change how you use the van.

 

[68c]

Assuming you are not using all the side windows, perhaps you could apply white sticky backed plastic/Fablon over the redundant windows to break up that long expanse of glass. This would make it less like a hotel bus and more like a campervan. The roof does not look particularly high, if you cannot stand up easily in the van that can cause a problem with DVLA.

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[Two on Tour]

Even the professional converters are having problems and the vehicle classified as van with windows. It is only a description on the V5 document and doesn't in any way change how you use the van.

It can make a big difference to your insurance quote. As a van with windows is classed as a commercial vehicle and it also impacts on the max speed for various road as you are classified as a commercial which is why the police want to be able to tell at a glance whether a van is likely to be commercial or a camper van.

 

[XxAnthxX]

Hi, yes it does comply with all the 5 points they have in the list.

As Borderland says it doesn’t actually change a great deal.

I had my T5 re-classified but didn’t bother with the next home conversion I did.

I‘d try more photo’s and re-submit and hope for a different person on the day.

Did your pictures show the awning open or attached?

 

[Otter Spotter]

Having read and seen YouTube videos of other peoples recent attempts to get the DVLA to reclassify their van, it usually rejected on the externals not meeting the DVLA's interpretation set out in their guidance blurb.

I obviously have not see the photos of the externals of your van, but looking at your van in your avatar, with all the black glass down the side, would the Police think it was a 17 seater minibus rather than a camper van ?
Things like a bike rack on the back and a wind out awning firmly put in in the frame as a camper van.

Maybe "I love my camper van" big letters over the windows on each side would satisfy the box tickers at the DVLA and then remove the letter when you have the V5 you want in your hands.

Wind out awning is fitted to nearside, see photo, it has an opening side window in the sliding door and an electric step that isn’t asked for but all adds with the decals to the Motorcaravan ambiance, short of taking the person away with us and cooking him a meal on our Deisel powered hob and microwave, I am flummoxed as to what I can do exempt I suppose I can have a ‘adventure before dementia’ sticker on the side, but that may be a ly as some days I think Dementia has already set in

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[XxAnthxX]

It can make a big difference to your insurance quote though as a van with windows is classed as a commercial vehicle and it also impacts on the max speed for various road as you are classified as a commercial which is why the police want to be able to tell at a glance whether a van is likely to be commercial or a camper van.

The speed is the only real issue....As I’ve said before, I used Anthony Evans to insure my none-reclassified van, they specialise in horse box with accommodation and Motorcycle carrier with accommodation (race vans) Conversions. My van was insured according to its use...ie a camper not a commercial regardless of what the V5 said.

 

[34127]

It can make a big difference to your insurance quote. As a van with windows is classed as a commercial vehicle and it also impacts on the max speed for various road as you are classified as a commercial which is why the police want to be able to tell at a glance whether a van is likely to be commercial or a camper van.

The DVLA conversion document clearly states that the body type does not effect insurance category or speed limits

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

It is important to remember that even if the vehicle’s body type is not changed to ‘motor caravan’, the vehicle can still be used for this purpose as long as the keeper is satisfied the converted vehicle meets the required internal features for motor caravans.

 

[XxAnthxX]

Wind out awning is fitted to nearside, see photo, it has an opening side window in the sliding door and an electric step that isn’t asked for but all adds with the decals to the Motorcaravan ambiance, short of taking the person away with us and cooking him a meal on our Deisel powered hob and microwave, I am flummoxed as to what I can do exempt I suppose I can have a ‘adventure before dementia’ sticker on the side, but that may be a ly as some days I think Dementia has already set in View attachment 411395

Maybe try some pictures with the window or door open, with the awning open and a chair under it.

It really is nonsense these days

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[34127]

It is nonsense and confusing but as I said it makes no difference to how the vehicle is used.

 

[XxAnthxX]

as I said it makes no difference to how the vehicle is used.

Yup, that’s right....been there done that.

 

[XxAnthxX]

Maybe a few Motorhome fun stickers would swing it for you.....

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[Two on Tour]

The DVLA conversion document clearly states that the body type does not effect insurance category or speed limits

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

It is important to remember that even if the vehicle’s body type is not changed to ‘motor caravan’, the vehicle can still be used for this purpose as long as the keeper is satisfied the converted vehicle meets the required internal features for motor caravans.

That's right, so it remains classed as a commercial vehicle with speed limits as commercial vans, plus insurers normally quote lower prices for motor caravan than van with windows, I have been though all the arguments with my Nissan Navara 4 X 4

 

[34127]

That's right, so it remains classed as a commercial vehicle with speed limits as commercial vans, plus insurers normally quote lower prices for motor caravan than van with windows, I have been though all the arguments with my Nissan Navara 4 X 4

No, it is described on the document as a van with windows but the speed limits are as for a motor caravan.

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

 

[Two on Tour]

No, it is described on the document as a van with windows but the speed limits are as for a motor caravan.

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

https://www.jerbacampervans.co.uk/motorcaravan-and-campervan-speed-limits/

In case you miss this part, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/schedule/6

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[XxAnthxX]

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

 

[34127]

This is a copy of email sent by DVLA to clarify situation regarding speed limits.

Helen Grech <Helen.Grech@dft.gov.uk>	Tue, 26 Nov 2019, 08:48
to me

Dear .........

I refer to your email exchange below with IVS Enquiries, about motor caravan speed limits. I have been asked to respond as my team deals with policy on vehicle speeds.

I can confirm that the speed of your vehicle is not connected to the body type on your V5C registration form.

I have been informed by DVLA that all campervans, motor caravans and motor homes fall into the DVLA body type category of ‘motor caravan’. The body type information held on the DVLA’s records must describe what a vehicle actually looks like. If the exterior of the vehicle does not look like a motor caravan, DVLA will be unable to change the body type. However, vehicle keepers are still able to use the vehicle as a motor caravan provided any alterations made do not compromise the vehicle’s safety.

While DVLA say the policy relating to the allocation of body types has not changed, following customer feedback they will be reviewing the information provided on GOV.UK so that customers have greater clarity about the information they need and the actions they need to take when converting a vehicle to a motor caravan.

Turning to the issue of speed limits for your vehicle; as I explained in my email to you of 21 August 2019, the national speed limits for different categories of road vehicle depend on how the vehicle is configured for use on the road. The legislation applicable is the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, Schedule 6 (link below), which lists vehicle types which are restricted to speeds below the national speed limits.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/schedule/6

The Department for Transport has produced guidance on the various speed limits on the gov.uk website (link below), which includes advice on motor caravans:

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

As you will see, a motor caravan that exceeds 3.05 tonnes unladen weight is restricted to lower speeds than the national limits i.e. 70 mph on motorways; 60 mph on dual carriageways; 50 mph on single-carriageways, unless locally marked. If you draw a trailer (or trailers) of any type then lower limits apply.

If your motor caravan does not exceed 3.05 tonnes unladen weight, then it is not restricted to lower speeds than the national limits and can travel at the same speed limit as a car.

I assume that your vehicle has been converted to meet the definition of a motor caravan (useful link given below); so as such would need to comply with the speed limit for this type of vehicle (i.e. motor caravan) dependent on its weight; regardless of what information is on the V5C form.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...o-a-motorhome#dft-definition-of-motor-caravan

Please note that motor caravans which carry goods or burden not directly necessary for the purpose of living in the vehicle, would be classed as goods vehicles and subject to current goods vehicle requirements for speed limits.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Helen

				Helen Grech Policy Advisor, Freight: Vehicle Speeds, Drivers’ Hours and Enforcement 2/21-23, Great Minster House 33 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 4DR Mobile: 07717 800 687
				Follow us on twitter @transportgovuk NB: I work part-time; four days a week. I do not work on Friday

 

[olley]

Giving it a quick glance with those long black windows it looks like a typical people carrier

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[Two on Tour]

This is a copy of email sent by DVLA to clarify situation regarding speed limits.

Helen Grech <Helen.Grech@dft.gov.uk>	Tue, 26 Nov 2019, 08:48
to me

Dear .........

I refer to your email exchange below with IVS Enquiries, about motor caravan speed limits. I have been asked to respond as my team deals with policy on vehicle speeds.

I can confirm that the speed of your vehicle is not connected to the body type on your V5C registration form.

I have been informed by DVLA that all campervans, motor caravans and motor homes fall into the DVLA body type category of ‘motor caravan’. The body type information held on the DVLA’s records must describe what a vehicle actually looks like. If the exterior of the vehicle does not look like a motor caravan, DVLA will be unable to change the body type. However, vehicle keepers are still able to use the vehicle as a motor caravan provided any alterations made do not compromise the vehicle’s safety.

While DVLA say the policy relating to the allocation of body types has not changed, following customer feedback they will be reviewing the information provided on GOV.UK so that customers have greater clarity about the information they need and the actions they need to take when converting a vehicle to a motor caravan.

Turning to the issue of speed limits for your vehicle; as I explained in my email to you of 21 August 2019, the national speed limits for different categories of road vehicle depend on how the vehicle is configured for use on the road. The legislation applicable is the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, Schedule 6 (link below), which lists vehicle types which are restricted to speeds below the national speed limits.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/schedule/6

The Department for Transport has produced guidance on the various speed limits on the gov.uk website (link below), which includes advice on motor caravans:

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

As you will see, a motor caravan that exceeds 3.05 tonnes unladen weight is restricted to lower speeds than the national limits i.e. 70 mph on motorways; 60 mph on dual carriageways; 50 mph on single-carriageways, unless locally marked. If you draw a trailer (or trailers) of any type then lower limits apply.

If your motor caravan does not exceed 3.05 tonnes unladen weight, then it is not restricted to lower speeds than the national limits and can travel at the same speed limit as a car.

I assume that your vehicle has been converted to meet the definition of a motor caravan (useful link given below); so as such would need to comply with the speed limit for this type of vehicle (i.e. motor caravan) dependent on its weight; regardless of what information is on the V5C form.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...o-a-motorhome#dft-definition-of-motor-caravan

Please note that motor caravans which carry goods or burden not directly necessary for the purpose of living in the vehicle, would be classed as goods vehicles and subject to current goods vehicle requirements for speed limits.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Helen

				Helen Grech Policy Advisor, Freight: Vehicle Speeds, Drivers’ Hours and Enforcement 2/21-23, Great Minster House 33 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 4DR Mobile: 07717 800 687
				Follow us on twitter @transportgovuk NB: I work part-time; four days a week. I do not work on Friday

Great, but the OP vehicle is classed as a Van With Windows NOT a motor caravan.

 

[XxAnthxX]

Giving it a quick glance with those long black windows it looks like a typical people carrier

But their requirement is two windows on one side to allow in sufficient light, not including the cab door.

 

[Clipgate]

It's very close to a local care home mini bus signage. It would be my guess if seen at a glance

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[XxAnthxX]

The above link https://www.jerbacampervans.co.uk/motorcaravan-and-campervan-speed-limits/ states the below.....I wonder where has the highlighted text has came from and if correct has any relevance?

Just to confuse, the DVLA have a different definition of a motorcaravan (the classification under Body Type section D5 on your V5C Registration Certificate) which was of course updated in 2019 to include a fixed high top roof, an awning “bar” on both sides, motorcaravan style exterior graphic etc;

 

[34127]

Great, but the OP vehicle is classed as a Van With Windows NOT a motor caravan.

But that is what the DVLA conversion document and the email is saying

.
The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

It is important to remember that even if the vehicle’s body type is not changed to ‘motor caravan’, the vehicle can still be used for this purpose as long as the keeper is satisfied the converted vehicle meets the required internal features for motor caravans.

I assume that your vehicle has been converted to meet the definition of a motor caravan (useful link given below); so as such would need to comply with the speed limit for this type of vehicle (i.e. motor caravan) dependent on its weight; regardless of what information is on the V5C form.

The OP has said that the DVLA is satisified with the internal side of things but from appearance it still looks like a van with windows and therefore the document states van with windows.

 

[Two on Tour]

But that is what the DVLA conversion document and the email is saying

.
The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

It is important to remember that even if the vehicle’s body type is not changed to ‘motor caravan’, the vehicle can still be used for this purpose as long as the keeper is satisfied the converted vehicle meets the required internal features for motor caravans.

I assume that your vehicle has been converted to meet the definition of a motor caravan (useful link given below); so as such would need to comply with the speed limit for this type of vehicle (i.e. motor caravan) dependent on its weight; regardless of what information is on the V5C form.

The OP has said that the DVLA is satisified with the internal side of things but from appearance it still looks like a van with windows and therefore the document states van with windows.

I give up and can't be asked.

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[Lenny HB]

Giving it a quick glance with those long black windows it looks like a typical people carrier

Don't Autosleepers look like that with the glass windows all down the side?

 

[34127]

I give up and can't be asked.

But surely it couldn't be any clearer. It is irrelevant what it is classified on the V5 as confirmed below.

The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification

 

[Lenny HB]

DVLA are masters at gobbly gook in their letters, my last van they rejected my application for registration (self import), I had to ring them to find out what the letter meant. Turned out they were saying I hadn't paid the VAT, no mention of VAT or payment in the letter. Even more annoying I'd paid it over a week before but DVLA & HMRC computers take days to sync up.

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