A Flat battery despite having solar panels! Pretty miffed!! (1 Viewer)

[TinTentTourist]

We bought our first MH last year, an Autograph 75-4, new from a dealer.
Quite a few niggles from new that are still not all resolved, and now I come back to it after lockdown to find the vehicle battery flat!
It has two large solar panels (100w I think) on the roof and I was led to believe it kept both the engine and habitation batteries topped up. SO after so much sunshine, I could not believe the engine battery was flat.
Does anyone know if the charge controller has been wired up wrongly or am I missing something?
I have searched the other threads and cannot find a match for my situation. I know about Battery Misers, but I would have thought my system with a charge controller was capable of doing that job.
Any advice welcome to stop this happening again please.
Cheers
Martin

 

[David and Sally]

Chance are your solar only charges the hab battery. Ask how I know! I have a 2019 Burstner so have the same issue.

Best advice is to invest in a Battery Master from Van Bitz.

 

[Geo]

Needs checking out physically could be simply a blown fuse to an incorrect install through to a system that wasn't designed to do what you think it should

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[Martin and Wendy.]

This happened to me after buying our Hymer two years ago. There was a fuse near the engine battery from the solar panels that had blown. The result was that the battery was knackered as I think the van had been in storage for a while, the previous owner had presumed it was being charged. I can post a pic if that would help.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I am completely non technical.
I have a solar panel on the roof.
I'm lead to believe I have a split charging system with a PWM controller - which I understand is the most ineffective and inefficient combo possible.
However, I've yet to run into any issues with either the 2x hab or vehicle batteries, so I leave well alone.
But I think, even my cheapo controller does have a number of charging options ie hab and vehicle, hab or vehicle and even a selection of what percentage goes where eg 70/30% hab/van.

Maybe have a look at your controller to see if it has similar options & they've been correctly selected?

 

[Langtoftlad]

I've just had a look at the .pdf manual...
This is [apparently] what I have

...and these are my options:

I presume battery #2 is the vehicle battery & both hab batteries are grouped as #1.
but as it works, I've not fiddled with any of the settings.

Actually, I may have unfairly demeaned it, as it seems to have a fair amount of options

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[PhilandMena]

LOL ! Confused yet ? More advice to follow for certain ? I have two pieces !
1. RTFM
2. You said its a new M'home (?) I suspect with 2 x 100 W S.P. fitted your cab battery is somehow connected to the solar system but like you I'm just guessing. So, its either a case of picking up the phone and calling your dealer or revert to my first piece of advice. Best of luck.

 

[dunnah01]

The controller looks a lot like the Truma PWM so an online search will give you a manual and also instructions on how to make sure the charge split isn't giving 0% to the B1 starter battery.

 

[The Wino]

Look first at how many terminals are connected if there's only wires to one of the batteries its likely that the cab battery isn't connected unless theres a separate battery master fitted. Of course it could just be the cab battery's had it even though it has been charged. I think you need to look at the wiring and get your multimeter out.

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[peterc10]

You probably need to buy a Battery Master (not miser!). They are for sale because some UK motorhomes do not charge both batteries at the same time. I am not sure whether Bailey fall into that category, but somebody who has had one should be able to confirm. scousebird ?

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

you need to check the wires from the controller you have shown. Battery 1 is your leisure battery and will defo have wires from it, to charge your second battery wires need to be also connected to this section of the controller. If that's not the case all the charge is going to your leisure batteries. You need a battery master or connect your starter battery to the battery 2 connections.
In total you should see 6 wires from your controller.
2 to battery 1, 2 to the panel, 2 to battery 2( which should be your starter battery)

 

[The Wino]

you need to check the wires from the controller you have shown. Battery 1 is your leisure battery and will defo have wires from it, to charge your second battery wires need to be also connected to this section of the controller. If that's not the case all the charge is going to your leisure batteries. You need a battery master or connect your starter battery to the battery 2 connections.
In total you should see 6 wires from your controller.
2 to battery 1, 2 to the panel, 2 to battery 2( which should be your starter battery)

Just what I was trying to say!. If all the wires are there I think the next thing is to look at the controller settings. If only one battery wired then check theres not already a battery master and thats why they haven't used both solar controller terminals then check the battery. But I'm only a diyer

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[TinTentTourist]

Thanks folks. I've just been to the MH (Which is new, and has that same Truma unit fitted) I have retrieved both the manuals and the battery for attention back home. I have emailed both the dealer and Bailey but have not had a reply yet from either. The battery is now on a smart charger and hopefully will be recovered in a day or two.
Since there in NO charge on the vehicle battery despite the fantastic weather, I can only assume it's not connected and the Batt #1 and #2 refers to the option for a second habitation battery (Only guessing!).
Either way, as a newbie to motorhomes and having spent so much on the machine, I'm feeling constantly let down by Bailey. If there is a valid reason that the vehicle battery is not maintained, why is this not pointed out in the paperwork or mentioned by the dealer - I was really pleased to think it would be maintained during the winter so that the security equipment always had power!
*Battery Master - Dyslexia rules KO.

 

[funflair]

Battery 1 and battery 2 will be leisure and starter but not necessarily in that order, it may not be wired or set up correctly.

 

[Minxy]

It has two large solar panels (100w I think) on the roof and I was led to believe it kept both the engine and habitation batteries topped up. SO after so much sunshine, I could not believe the engine battery was flat.
Does anyone know if the charge controller has been wired up wrongly or am I missing something?
I have searched the other threads and cannot find a match for my situation. I know about Battery Misers, but I would have thought my system with a charge controller was capable of doing that job.
Any advice welcome to stop this happening again please.
Cheers
Martin

The cab battery may have a permanent draw on especially if you have an alarm, or if the radio 'live' all the time (so you can use it without having to have the ignition switched on) which over time can reduce the battery level even with good solar input as the solar usually puts most of the input into the hab batteries with a small amount going into the cab one. We've had this with a few MHs/campers so there might be nothing wrong at all and it is how it has been set to work.

The MPPT controllers will manage the input from the solar much better than a PWM one and increase the amount of charge being put into the batteries.

How long is it since you actually drove the MH and/or plugged it into EHU?

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[scousebird]

You probably need to buy a Battery Master (not miser!). They are for sale because some UK motorhomes do not charge both batteries at the same time. I am not sure whether Bailey fall into that category, but somebody who has had one should be able to confirm. scousebird ?

Peter, you're asking me a technical question?

Seriously, we didn't have solar on the Bailey as we had 2 massive batteries and never ran out of power. So can't help I'm afraid - I know, I'm useless.

 

[kevenh]

obv. something is amiss.
I’ve a small solar panel keeping my hab & cab batteries charged in lockdown.
The previous owner setup a 2.4W panel to both batteries via a control panel like yours.
#1 is habitat bat #2 is the engine cab battery.
With the MH unused on the drive, with the lockdown sun my batteries are being topped up.
The panel wouldn’t help much for wild camping tho

Edit: clarity

 

[PhilandMena]

Looks to me as if your on top of it now and after speaking with dealer will have it resolved. It might be just a simple case of connecting the cab battery to the regulator and setting it up for your own particular usage. Members on here will be quick to spend your money on solutions that may not be required. You have now been warned. Safe travels.

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[Ingwe]

Thanks folks. I've just been to the MH (Which is new, and has that same Truma unit fitted) I have retrieved both the manuals and the battery for attention back home. I have emailed both the dealer and Bailey but have not had a reply yet from either. The battery is now on a smart charger and hopefully will be recovered in a day or two.
Since there in NO charge on the vehicle battery despite the fantastic weather, I can only assume it's not connected and the Batt #1 and #2 refers to the option for a second habitation battery (Only guessing!).
Either way, as a newbie to motorhomes and having spent so much on the machine, I'm feeling constantly let down by Bailey. If there is a valid reason that the vehicle battery is not maintained, why is this not pointed out in the paperwork or mentioned by the dealer - I was really pleased to think it would be maintained during the winter so that the security equipment always had power!
*Battery Master - Dyslexia rules KO.

I feel for you as fellow Bailey motorhome (although we have the baby of the bunch the 620). We have a 120watt solar panel that does charge both leisure and cab batteries. But when we stored the MH indoors there was no solar. So we hooked up to the mains. This only charged the leisure battery and we kept coming to find flat cab battery. So fitted the Battery Master and now the cab battery is always charged, whether on solar or on hookup. But if you controller is a dual battery charger and is not charging the cab battery, I'd say it wasn't connected correctly.
I have emailed Bailey and the dealer on many occasions about this and other things and have never had so much as an acknowledgement from Bailey. The dealer did reply but they were as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Hope you get it sorted.

 

[TinTentTourist]

The cab battery may have a permanent draw on especially if you have an alarm, or if the radio 'live' all the time (so you can use it without having to have the ignition switched on) which over time can reduce the battery level even with good solar input as the solar usually puts most of the input into the hab batteries with a small amount going into the cab one. We've had this with a few MHs/campers so there might be nothing wrong at all and it is how it has been set to work.

The MPPT controllers will manage the input from the solar much better than a PWM one and increase the amount of charge being put into the batteries.

How long is it since you actually drove the MH and/or plugged it into EHU?

Hi, we had 2 weeks in the Higlands in February. EHU all the time and a 300m return journey - the battery should have been fully charged. There is only a tracker running while the vehicle is stationary and there was still enough juice to keep that running (I got a call when I unhooked the battery!). There was even enough (just ) for the central locking to open the doors.
2 x 100w panels with all the sun we have had recently should have easily done two or three batteries, I'm just annoyed it did not. I believe a £20 1.5w panel off Amazon would be sufficient to maintain a trickle charge.
I would just like for it not to happen again, and I begrudge paying another £70 to make up for the failings of a system that should be able to do the job.

 

[dunnah01]

Had a quick look at manual and B2 is indeed starter battery unlike my CBE system. You first need to see what the % split for the B1/B2 charge has been set to. If B2 is set to only 10% this may not be enough and probably needs to be upped a bit

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[Minxy]

Had a quick look at manual and B2 is indeed starter battery unlike my CBE system. You first need to see what the % split for the B1/B2 charge has been set to. If B2 is set to only 10% this may not be enough and probably needs to be upped a bit

The only thing with changing the regime is that keeping the cab battery topped up more obviously takes away from the leisure batteries so needs to be thought about carefully for those who stay put without EHU for a while relying totally on the solar input.

 

[dunnah01]

The only thing with changing the regime is that keeping the cab battery topped up more obviously takes away from the leisure batteries so needs to be thought about carefully for those who stay put without EHU for a while relying totally on the solar input.

But at least they could start the engine to charge the leisure batteries with the alternator

 

[Minxy]

Hi, we had 2 weeks in the Higlands in February. EHU all the time and a 300m return journey - the battery should have been fully charged. There is only a tracker running while the vehicle is stationary and there was still enough juice to keep that running (I got a call when I unhooked the battery!). There was even enough (just ) for the central locking to open the doors.

2 x 100w panels with all the sun we have had recently should have easily done two or three batteries, I'm just annoyed it did not.

Since your return in February though have you ever checked on the state of the cab battery? We may be having a lot of sun now but if your cab battery had been gradually depleting during Feb/Mar/April it may only just have been hanging on anyway - the glorious weather we've had will certainly have helped top it up again but would be unlikely to get it up to 100%. Even our MH with 2 x 100w panels and a MPPT controller has needed EHU connecting a couple of times since we returned from holiday in February from Spain to get the cab battery back up as it was getting a bit low.

Have you cleaned your panels? Are they getting some shading from stuff on your roof or around the MH?

I believe a £20 1.5w panel off Amazon would be sufficient to maintain a trickle charge.
I would just like for it not to happen again, and I begrudge paying another £70 to make up for the failings of a system that should be able to do the job.

Can't you just plug it into the EHU occasionally and top it up? If you use a timer you don't even have to remember to do it.

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[Minxy]

But at least they could start the engine to charge the leisure batteries with the alternator

Yes, but not ideal.

 

[TinTentTourist]

Since your return in February though have you ever checked on the state of the cab battery? We may be having a lot of sun now but if your cab battery had been gradually depleting during Feb/Mar/April it may only just have been hanging on anyway - the glorious weather we've had will certainly have helped top it up again but would be unlikely to get it up to 100%. Even our MH with 2 x 100w panels and a MPPT controller has needed EHU connecting a couple of times since we returned from holiday in February from Spain to get the cab battery back up as it was getting a bit low.

Have you cleaned your panels? Are they getting some shading from stuff on your roof or around the MH?


Can't you just plug it into the EHU occasionally and top it up? If you use a timer you don't even have to remember to do it.

Nope... The van is in storage and during lockdown we stayed home. Checking the van was not essential. And to be honest, it never crossed my mind the battery would need any attention because of the panels (which are clean and a long way from shade).
Also, I just read something that suggested EHU didn't charge the vehicle battery anyway, just the leisure! The whole thing seems *rse about face to me!

 

[Ivory55]

Nope... The van is in storage and during lockdown we stayed home. Checking the van was not essential. And to be honest, it never crossed my mind the battery would need any attention because of the panels (which are clean and a long way from shade).
Also, I just read something that suggested EHU didn't charge the vehicle battery anyway, just the leisure! The whole thing seems *rse about face to me!

Welcome to the wonderful world of 12v electric, which does not make sense to us normal people. Haha

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[Gerby]

Hi TinTentTourist I have the 2017 Autograph (79-6) with 1 x 100 Watt Solar panel it seems to be fine at keeping both the Hab and Cab batteries going fine whilst we are not using it (like you we have a tracker fitted which does place a very small drain on the battery) so I would guess there are issues with your wiring, did it come with 2 panels (I thought the standard was just 1) as if the second one was not original it was probably a dealer fit and may be part of the problem (just guessing here).

Generally the dealer should deal with these issues under warranty and they should in turn deal with Bailey on your behalf, I know any problems we have had have all been dealt with extremely well and efficiently so far.

edit Forgot to add I will take a look in our handbook later as I think there is something in there about it, I also think the cab battery is charged whilst on EHU but will look at that at the same time,

 

[Gerby]

Hi TinTentTourist OK I have looked in our manual and looked at the solar panel and controller on our van and it should be a Truma dual battery charger (ours is) and should keep both Batteries charged if correctly wired up (again ours seems to do this) if you have the same Owners manual we have got (ours is the 2017 model) then the relevant section starts at page 58, you may want to check that it is wired correctly but also that the correct battery settings have been input (gel, agm or liquid) instructions on how to check and change this are in the Owners manual (pages 60 and 61 in our version).

With regard to EHU the manual only mentions charging of the Hab battery but thinking about it that would be in line with the parent vehicle (Peugeot boxer) all I can say is I haven't had any issues but that is probably because the solar on my van is doing what it is supposed to.

If you have no luck with checking the settings let me know but your dealer should deal with this quite easily under warranty (especially if they added additional solar as they should have checked the system they would have fitted and come to that they should have checked it was set correctly as part of the PDI even if they didn't add any extra panels).

 

[Minxy]

Nope... The van is in storage and during lockdown we stayed home. Checking the van was not essential. And to be honest, it never crossed my mind the battery would need any attention because of the panels (which are clean and a long way from shade).

That could be the issue then as I explained earlier. Leaving the battery without any other input for 4 months isn't ideal even when linked to the solar panels as they wouldn't put a massive amount into it during Feb/March/April/May except on sunny days as the bias would be for the leisure batteries so a small draw on the cab battery may see it being depleted more than it can be recharged on the days when it does get an input, therefore it is likely to have got very drained and have been constantly trying to 'recover' since then so thinking it will be in a fully charged state after that period of time is expecting too much IMV.

Also, I just read something that suggested EHU didn't charge the vehicle battery anyway, just the leisure! The whole thing seems *rse about face to me!

Whilst this may be a possibility I'd be extremely surprised if this was the case on modern MHs.

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