Petrol Stations Jumping The Gun? (1 Viewer)

Jun 2, 2010
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Has anyone like me, noticed the Forecourt fuel prices have jumped up the last few days, I think the petrol companies are getting their increase in now hoping it will be disguised by and blamed on the imminent VAT increase. :swear:
 

Dude

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Rip off Britain!!!!!!!!!!! Never:Doh: What makes me mad is the govt make a fuss about green fuels yet increase LPG so much its not worth people fitting it as it takes so long to get a gain in expenditure.
 
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Gooney
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I hadn't seen this cutting from the Express but having read it it seems to support my thoughts, at a local Shell garage today, Diesel £1.30 ltr. however at Asda £1.24 (which is still a big increase from before christmas)
 

Road Runner

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Asda and Morrisons keep the like of Tesco's prices low, left to it's own Tesco would not be that cheap.
 

rainbow chasers

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They always do that, so they don't get the flack! Really annoys me. I noticed LPG has shot up too - 17p a litre more than last week! Getting to a point where it will be cheaper to run on petrol!

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motor roamin

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I paid £1.27 a ltr for diesel yesterday at the BP station where we have our account.

Don't think it will be long before we hit £1.50 ltr, filling up the RV tomorrow Derv and LPG dred it.

Have a great new year Rick.
 

GJH

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Morrisons Teesside Park today is 125.9 for diesel. If you have a Morrisons card you get the equivalent of 1.5p off.

Total garage up the road for us is a penny dearer.

Haven't been near Asda or Tesco so can't report their prices.
 

Northerner

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Rip-off Britain is a bit of a myth. The biggest rip-off is in the taxes that are imposed on petrol. The cost of the petrol in each litre is under 50 pence. The rest is taxes and VAT.

Costs such as this knock on to all the other things that need transporting.

The other big factor is currency. Petrol is priced in dollars. A couple of years ago a pound bought two dollars, it now buys one and a half.

Prices in Britain are very similar to other European countries but we never hear about rip-off France for instance, where you even have to pay to drive on the motorways!

The USA is a very different market with lower wages, lower social taxes such as N.I., fewer costly employee benefits such as long paid-holidays and maternity leave and, most of all, cheaper land, which results in lower business rents and rates. I could go on.

Of course, you'll always get the odd business that tries it on, but they usually don't survive. Anyone doing business on eBay for instance will see that there are thousands of businesses in the UK that have high customer satisfaction ratings. We tend to remember the few dodgy ones and conveniently forget the ones trading honestly and doing their best for their clients.
 

pappajohn

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the price of diesel always goes through the roof in winter due to massive demand from america for home heating.

we use kerosene, the yanks use diesel.

come spring the demand will decrease and the uk price will drop...slightly.

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movan

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I know we are all talking about it on here, but is there anybody other than me who is REALLY REALLY worried about it.... i am so scared that I may have to give up my motorhome if prices keep rising like this.... or am I worrying for nothing....:Sad:
 
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Gooney
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Sorry Mr Northener, rip of Britain is NOT a myth, as stated when I opened this thread, Shell diesel £1.30/ltr, Asda £1.24/ltr. Companies charge what they think they can get. You can't justify by saying Asda has big buying power, all the fuel comes from the same Shell refinery about 10 miles down the road.
 

Northerner

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Sorry Mr Northener, rip of Britain is NOT a myth, as stated when I opened this thread, Shell diesel £1.30/ltr, Asda £1.24/ltr. Companies charge what they think they can get. You can't justify by saying Asda has big buying power, all the fuel comes from the same Shell refinery about 10 miles down the road.

And this doesn't happen in any other countries? Come on! When you sell your house what do you do? You get as much as you can for it. The job of a businessman is to get the best price he can, otherwise it's not a business, it's a hobby!

Competition is what forces prices down and if a retailer can squeeze a little more because there isn't as much competition then he will. But I say again, do you really believe that exactly the same thing does not happen in France, Germany, the USA and everywhere else for that matter?

Apart from which, comparing an independent Shell dealer with a huge supermarket is hardly a fair comparison. It's a bit like comparing the corner shop with Tesco! The fuel may come from the same refinery but Asda will have a far better national deal as it has hundreds of outlets. Do you really think that an independent buys as cheaply as Asda?

Perhaps the Shell dealer has just filled his tanks at the new slightly higher rate whilst Asda has stock bought last week? You really have no idea of knowing why there's a difference. Prices are rising and are volatile so there will always be dealers who have stock bought at last week's price and those who've just restocked at a higher one.

I presume that you've been on the Continent and noticed the huge disparity in fuel prices there, between small dealers and supermarkets for example? Is it rip-off France or rip-off Germany? Rip off Britain is a myth, we're no different than any other country.

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Gooney
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I'm surprised you used house selling as an example, wasn't that called gazumping, a hated practice. As I stated in the start of this thread £1.30 from Shell and £1.24 from Asda for diesel. This is not a snap shot, it's a trend, the poor local Shell dealer paying new prices and the big bad ASDA having loads of old stock to sell off, rubbish!! it all comes from the SHELL refinery. Anyone who doesn't patronise a near supplier who offers even a 1P discount is supporting RIP OFF BRITAIN
 

pappajohn

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I'm surprised you used house selling as an example, wasn't that called gazumping, a hated practice. As I stated in the start of this thread £1.30 from Shell and £1.24 from Asda for diesel. This is not a snap shot, it's a trend, the poor local Shell dealer paying new prices and the big bad ASDA having loads of old stock to sell off, rubbish!! it all comes from the SHELL refinery. Anyone who doesn't patronise a near supplier who offers even a 1P discount is supporting RIP OFF BRITAIN

supermarkets have, on average, two to three deliveries per week so what old stock would you be talking about ?

the main difference in price is the quality of the additives put in the fuel.
a shell garage will have premium fuel with all the additives and asda, tesco, morrisons will have the minimum of additives.

there are three ways to add the additives...at the refinery during tanker filling(premium grade for their own forecourts) , at the refinery during bulk storage (everyone gets the same) and at the supermarket forecourt by the tanker driver (minimum additives).
 
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Gooney
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supermarkets have, on average, two to three deliveries per week so what old stock would you be talking about ?

the main difference in price is the quality of the additives put in the fuel.
a shell garage will have premium fuel with all the additives and asda, tesco, morrisons will have the minimum of additives.

there are three ways to add the additives...at the refinery in bulk tanks during refining, at the refinery during bulk storage (premium grade for their own forecourts) and at the supermarket forecourt by the tanker driver.

Hiya PAPS, the facts about old stock came from 'Northerner' not me, I'm a trusting soul, I just took that as gospel, but seeing as my faith is being questioned I must ask the question 'What are the benefits of the additives you mention? how much more MPG, how much more engine life do I expect for the extra 4p per litre

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pappajohn

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Hiya PAPS, the facts about old stock came from 'Northerner' not me, I'm a trusting soul, I just took that as gospel, but seeing as my faith is being questioned I must ask the question 'What are the benefits of the additives you mention? how much more MPG, how much more engine life do I expect for the extra 4p per litre

firstly, apologies for quoting the wrong person :Blush:

the additives increase cetane rating of deisel and octane rating of petrol although there MUST legally be a minimum rating for both, i think its a minimum of 97 octane for petrol and 540 cetane for diesel..also will be the quality of anti foaming agents and detergents to 'clean' the engine and injection system.
supermarkets will only pay for the absolute minimum quality/quantity.
the better quality/quantity of the additives the better the octane/cetane rating, anti waxing and anti-foaming action.

anti foaming is needed to ensure you get diesel, not diesel and some air filled foam and to stop foaming in the tank when filling and travelling.
anti waxing additives are needed to stop diesel 'freezing' in winter.
the higher the cetane, the better the burn efficiency.

if we still used the diesel from the 1950's and 60's we would still be adding small amounts of petrol to diesel and lighting oily rags under the diesel tank to stop waxing in winter.

these advances in fuel technology have to be re-cooped from somewhere....the customer.
 

Gonewiththewind

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if we still used the diesel from the 1950's and 60's we would still be adding small amounts of petrol to diesel and lighting oily rags under the diesel tank to stop waxing in winter.

these advances in fuel technology have to be re-cooped from somewhere....the customer.[/QUOTE]

Bugger, are you saying that I am the only one still doing this.:Eeek:

Don
 
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Gooney
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Wow Paps,
You know your stuff, I'm impressed with your knowledge but you still never told me how much more I'd get to the gallon, I don' t think anyone will be lighting rags under the tanks nowadays and as far as antifoaming, thats to the fuel suppliers benefit, stop the foaming and the punter gets more(paid for) fuel in his tank!!
 

estcres

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Early in December I borrowed my son's car to go to an evening event, i thought I would be a decent chappie and put some diesel in the vehicle to replace what I intended using.

Went to the local BP forecourt and, by mistake, picked up the "excellsium" diesel pump £1:32.9p/litre, course by the time I realised it was too late and £15s worth had gone in.

A lot of people are now looking to see if it is cheaper and more cost effective to travel by public transport than using their own vehicle. Thats OK if you live in a city or large town, but if like me you live in the country, public transport is not always an option.

I expect we will see fuel prices continue to rise over the next few years and by about 2015 we will be paying £2/litre, the vast majority of that money going to the government to lend to another bank or country!!!!
 

GJH

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the price of diesel always goes through the roof in winter due to massive demand from america for home heating.

we use kerosene, the yanks use diesel.

come spring the demand will decrease and the uk price will drop...slightly.

John is absolutely correct. This has been reported time and again over the years.

Perhaps it is worth pointing out that the current level of prices is very similar to the level we experienced in June/July 2008 when the cause was not the Winter demand effect but the result of speculation by oil producers/dealers outside this country - rip off elsewhere perhaps? :Smile:
 

Landy lover

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IMHO the media has hyped up the £1.50 per litre for so long that oil companies and gov are both happy to let it reach that level as people are expecting it.

The underlying problems are there are many old people who live in the country on very limited incomes who need oil for heating as mains gas is not an option and LPG follows oil prices as it is an oil related product.They also need vehicles to access shops - doctors etc etc as in many cases there is no public transport

Another is the imminent rise in VAT - while this will be claimed and recharged by the hauliers ( carrying food and goods to shops etc etc) there is the underlying added cost of fuel and fuel duty which will inevitably cause an increase in prices at the shops couple this with the 2.5% increase in VAT the effect is probably going to mean about a 5% increase to the consumer in shop prices for the shopkeeper just to stand still on base costs. So as cost of living rises due to this other costs will rise forcing greater increases to the consumer.

Interesting times to come:Eeek:

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Northerner

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I'm surprised you used house selling as an example, wasn't that called gazumping, a hated practice. As I stated in the start of this thread £1.30 from Shell and £1.24 from Asda for diesel. This is not a snap shot, it's a trend, the poor local Shell dealer paying new prices and the big bad ASDA having loads of old stock to sell off, rubbish!! it all comes from the SHELL refinery. Anyone who doesn't patronise a near supplier who offers even a 1P discount is supporting RIP OFF BRITAIN

I used house prices as an example for this reason. It's to try to explain to you that everyone tries to get the best price that he can. And what has gazumping got to do with it?

Let's assume that you bought a house for £100K and for whatever reason prices in your area doubled in five years, as they did in many. Now you want to sell and some young couple comes along to buy it. Do you say "Well I only paid £100K, it's ridiculous asking these nice young people £200K, I'll let them have it for £150K"?

Oh course you flipping well don't! If you can get £200K for it you will! When you go to buy a new motor-home and the list price is £50K, do you say "That's fine, here's my cheque"! Of course you don't! The odd thing is that it's usually the people who bang on about rip-off Britain who are the keenest possible in getting the lowest price when it comes to buying things for themselves. In other words, we all try to get the best deal for ourselves.

So my point is, businesses are no different from anyone else! They react to competition and they try to get the best price that they can!

This is the same in every country in the world but to see a price in an independent filling station and then see a lower one at a supermarket and use this a benchmark for declaring that we live in rip-off Britain is not by any standards a reasonable deduction.

You could easily say "Wow, we live in generous Britain! The local petrol station is £1.30 a litre but the supermarket down the road is 6p cheaper".

I'm a businessman and I know the difficulty in trying to make a decent profit margin and where I'm concerned I see no evedince of any rip-off Britain. Yes, there are individual spivs in any industry, but that happens in every country, not just Britain!

AS I said, is it rip-off France because prices vary in the petrol outlets?
 

Northerner

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supermarkets have, on average, two to three deliveries per week so what old stock would you be talking about ?

My local Shell dealer is actually usually the same or a penny cheaper than the local Tesco or Asda. He has two or three deliveries a week as well.

So he buys on Thursday at a price that lets him sell at £1.25. Asda down the road bought the previous Tuesday at a price that reflects a retail price of £1.20. So for a couple of days Asda has an advantage. When Asda restocks on Friday it may well have to sell at £1.27!

We are talking about a post here that claimed that, because the Shell dealer was £1.30 and Asda was £1.24, this means that we live in 'rip-off Britain'.

There are many reasons for different prices and at present they are very volatile. The local Shell dealer will not continue in business if his prices are constantly a lot higher than the Asda down the road. But none of this proves in any way an institutionalised rip-off society. It's called business and the free market, and is the same the world over!

We could of course abolish the free market and enjoy the wonderful standard of living that they had in the Soviet Union, Cuba or North Korea!
 

Landy lover

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So my point is, businesses are no different from anyone else! They react to competition and they try to get the best price that they can!

If they did not do this then there would be many more unemployed as more and more businesses go to the wall - there are already many thousands of businesses out there that are teetering - where the bosses are actually taking less than the workers due to economic pressures - Many people who should have retired and now be enjoying themselves and making way for young blood who have to work as pension schemes have become worthless and costs have risen. As an example in 2007 I was paying £21.50 for a 47kg LPG the latest price I have been quoted is £44.50 in that time my pension has risen a whole £1.50 per week but that was 60% less than I was lead to expect when I was 50 due solely to the action of governments and world economics.

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