Interesting phone call don't let this happen (1 Viewer)

motor roamin

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Sad I know I went into the office this morning as I had to name driving tests and prepare one of the trucks for MOT tomorrow (last one till May I think)

Whilst there I had a phone call from a guy........he is 70 years old ex HGV driver who is trying to renew his C1+E restricted to continue using his RV..........so far no problem........he had a heart attack in 1999 at which point he lost his HGV but following a medical he was granted his C1+E.....he has just passed another medical sent covering letters from his consultant giving him a clean bill of health.........but DVLA have asked him to retract his application, now he can appeal, my question is does any one on here know if he has any other redress, I think this is against his human rights......and the DVLA are trying to bully him out of a licence he is entitled to.

Any thoughts would be gratefully received from some one who knows better than me.

Have a great new year Rick.

__________________
 

Snowbird

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Am no lawyer but if he has just passed a medical and sent covering letters from his consultant,what right do DVLA have to say he is unfit to drive.
I personaly know several HGV drivers over 70 and still working,although having to have annual medicals.Is this some new directive to get older drivers off the road?.
If it were me I would sertainly appeal and claim all costs,including loss of use.
 
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motor roamin

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Am no lawyer but if he has just passed a medical and sent covering letters from his consultant,what right do DVLA have to say he is unfit to drive.
I personaly know several HGV drivers over 70 and still working,although having to have annual medicals.Is this some new directive to get older drivers off the road?.
If it were me I would sertainly appeal and claim all costs,including loss of use.

I couldn't agree more like you I know many drivers over 70 still working full time driving artics, some fitter than me.

I am trying to get anotheravenue for him to persue if he is not successful in his appeal.

Thanks for the reply

Rick

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MicknPat

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I personally know several HGV drivers over 70 and still working,although having to have annual medicals.

Snowbird, Have the 70+ HGV drivers who you know also suffered with a heart attack?

The question to ask yourselves before making any decision is, " If the decision to issue this driver with a further HGV licence is down to YOU and he suffers a further heart attack and wipes out a family of 4 with his RV how guilty would you feel?"
 
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Look at the 'At a glance guide to the current medical standards of fitness to drive' on the DVLA website. It is intended as guidance for medical practitioners but I think the general public can access it too. It is updated regularly and is evidence based. Unfortunately I am unable to put in the link.
 

Snowbird

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An old friend that drives this 50 ton 5 axel 8 wheel drive Ginaf on a daily basis is 81 years old this January.I strugle to get into the cab somdays.

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Snowbird

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Snowbird, Have the 70+ HGV drivers who you know also suffered with a heart attack?

The question to ask yourselves before making any decision is, " If the decision to issue this driver with a further HGV licence is down to YOU and he suffers a further heart attack and wipes out a family of 4 with his RV how guilty would you feel?"
Whether they have or not is of no consiquence.
As the original poster stated,the person in question had a clean bill of health with a recent medical,proped up by his consultants report that he was fit to drive.How many people do you know driving around that are under 70 so dont nead a medical,but still have heart attacks.You could do just as much damage with a 3500kg European MH as you could with a 7500kg RV,either is going to make a hell of a mess of somones Nisan Micra.
 
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motor roamin

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Snowbird, Have the 70+ HGV drivers who you know also suffered with a heart attack?

The question to ask yourselves before making any decision is, " If the decision to issue this driver with a further HGV licence is down to YOU and he suffers a further heart attack and wipes out a family of 4 with his RV how guilty would you feel?"

I understand what you are saying Mick, following a heart attack the medical undertaken is not a standard D4, it's a full medical including treadmill and has to be accompanied with a letter from a consultant, most people would not pass this medical (and indeed don't) following a heart attack, this guy has plus he has had his C1+E entitlement back for 8 years.

Have a great new year Rick
 

pappajohn

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it has been pointed out before on the forum, a driving licence is a priviledge...not a right.

dvla are the body who issue licences and they are the ones who decide if you get one or not even if no-one gets rejected when they first apply.

i reckon his only re-course is to appeal the decision and hope for the best.

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Road Runner

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If you pass a test and a medical also have no points against you it in my view is a right (otherwise dvla are acting like gods)

Otherwise you could say a fit person is allowed to live as a privilege and it not their right.
 

sedge

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Well, the whole of Europe must withdraw all "HGV" licences that heart attack victims over 70 hold, no matter whether they still work for a living or what. A member country can't start changing the rules and picking and choosing who they apply them to. Not when it is an EU licence they are issuing anyway.

Then no-one can argue and it is 100% clear that under those circumstances, you can't have this licence.

Me? - I'd back the bloke all the way to Strasbourg and the Court of Human Rights !!
 

pappajohn

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Well, the whole of Europe must withdraw all "HGV" licences that heart attack victims over 70 hold, no matter whether they still work for a living or what. A member country can't start changing the rules and picking and choosing who they apply them to. Not when it is an EU licence they are issuing anyway.

Then no-one can argue and it is 100% clear that under those circumstances, you can't have this licence.

Me? - I'd back the bloke all the way to Strasbourg and the Court of Human Rights !!
why not ? the spanish appear to pick and choose which laws to apply and which to alter to their own interpretation and for their own convenience.
only us UK puppets adhere strictly to the rules :Doh:

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rainbow chasers

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If he has passed medicals and jumped through the required hoops, I cannot see how they can refuse, really. I know it is a priviledge and all that, but he has complied with everything - so what are they playing at?

They do get quite funny with health problems and lorry licences. A friend had his lorry pilfered for fuel, where they cracked him over the head with a tyre iron. He had a plate put in his head and he was fine - no ill effects at all. They still insisted he waited 3 years 'just in case' he developed epilepsy (he had never had a fit, nor ever did) and no doctors letter would pursuade them different. They did make it difficult though, and he did have to hound them to get it back.

Yet they still allowed him to drive C1+E daily, which you would have thought, if they were that bothered about it, they would have stopped that as well!

I also agree with Pappajohn - most EU countries, take EU legislation to the toilet with them for a little light reading, and then wipe their rears with it!:thumb:
 

sedge

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OK pappajohn - in that case I accept it dunno why the OP is getting all upset - couldn't give a shhhhhhhhh, it doesn't affect me or our van, so hard luck on the bloke. Into each life some rain must fall ..... just as long as it isn't mine.



That suit you better?
 

Tony Santara

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I can't agree with Papppajohn and his "priviledge " theory on driving licences . Sorry John but it usually costs a lot of money and time to pass the test to start with , plus another load of "dosh" and time to pass an HGV test on top of that , so I believe it is a "Right" .

I also know of at least one younger 30'ish HGV driver that passed the test with a hole in his heart from birth presently driving tankers full of hazardous chemicals round the country.

In my opinion the old guy should fight for his rights

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MicknPat

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Whether they have or not is of no consiquence.
As the original poster stated,the person in question had a clean bill of health with a recent medical,proped up by his consultants report that he was fit to drive.How many people do you know driving around that are under 70 so dont nead a medical,but still have heart attacks.You could do just as much damage with a 3500kg European MH as you could with a 7500kg RV,either is going to make a hell of a mess of somones Nisan Micra.

Snowbird, The BIG difference my friend is that it is NOT those here in this thread who have to make that decision that MAY have life threatening consequences.

Yes there are lots of drivers well under 70 who may have heart problems that they don't know about, but once a problem has been identified then it may have to be up to others to make a decision to protect the rest of us.

The simple question to ask the driver is, " Can you guarantee that for the next 12 months you will NOT suffer another heart attack"

If he was an airline pilot we wouldn't be having this debate would we?
 

rainbow chasers

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I can't agree with Papppajohn and his "priviledge " theory on driving licences . Sorry John but it usually costs a lot of money and time to pass the test to start with , plus another load of "dosh" and time to pass an HGV test on top of that , so I believe it is a "Right" .

I also know of at least one younger 30'ish HGV driver that passed the test with a hole in his heart from birth presently driving tankers full of hazardous chemicals round the country.

In my opinion the old guy should fight for his rights

I agree he should fight!!

It is a priviledge, as stated by DVLA. Which is on the basis that once you have proven you comply with minimum safe ability standards (driving test) have undertaken minimum medical checks where required you can drive as your licence permits.

Become incompetant, unfit, or fail to comply with road legislation and they will/can take it away again.

In this guys' case, he has complied with all their demands - so there is no valid reason to refuse him. Without those reasons, they cannot really deny him as he is proven he is fit enough, jumped through the hoops, so he should not be descriminated against. It would be unwise of DVLA to refuse without reason! He does need to fight...from what I remember from when my friend was given his back - there was quite alot of messing around, and he did have to fight and hassle them, so maybe this is their proceadure!
 

dave newell

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The one point I would like to pick up on is tha DVLA have not refused to issue a licence as such but have asked him to retract his application..................on what grounds? is it improperly made out? does it not include a current and acceptable photo? Quite simply WHY? If they weren't prepared to grant him his licence they would have just refused surely, why ask the applicant to unapply?

Then again this DVLA, not even the people who work there know what they're doing or why!

D.

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Snowbird

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Snowbird, The BIG difference my friend is that it is NOT those here in this thread who have to make that decision that MAY have life threatening consequences.

Yes there are lots of drivers well under 70 who may have heart problems that they don't know about, but once a problem has been identified then it may have to be up to others to make a decision to protect the rest of us.

The simple question to ask the driver is, " Can you guarantee that for the next 12 months you will NOT suffer another heart attack"

If he was an airline pilot we wouldn't be having this debate would we?
You are correct..its not people on here that have to make the life threatening decision...its some jobsworth at DVLA who has never met the man.IMO thats wrong,profesional people have examined him and given him a clean bill of health.
I dont know of anyone over the age of 45 who could give an honest answer to "Can you guarantee that for the next 12 months you will NOT suffer another heart attack"
I fail to see what airline pilots have to do with it,but am sure they are in there somwhere.
 

Wildman

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I do not see and never will see a driving licence as a privilage.
I worked for my licence as does everyone else. I am entitled, now if my health removes that entitlement and I then get better, have surgery or whatever I would expect to get my licence back. Full stop. An entitlement not privilage. The classes on my licence are ENTITLEMENTS, not privilages.
 
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motor roamin

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The one point I would like to pick up on is tha DVLA have not refused to issue a licence as such but have asked him to retract his application..................on what grounds? is it improperly made out? does it not include a current and acceptable photo? Quite simply WHY? If they weren't prepared to grant him his licence they would have just refused surely, why ask the applicant to unapply?

Then again this DVLA, not even the people who work there know what they're doing or why!

D.

To be honest this is the bit that confuses me, his application is correct he has done every thing asked of him, his words not mine he has been asked to retract his application, I must admit I have not heard this one before myself, it can only suggest they don't have any grounds on which to reject the application.

Of course I only know what I have been told, and have no evidence to back it up.

To pick up on what Mick said, I very much doubt any one of us could say we wouldn't have a heart attack in the next 12 months but at least he has had an extenstensive medical my last one for my HGV (only a standard D4) was 4 years ago.

Heart attacks run in my family most males don't make it to my age, should that preclude me from holding a HGV licence?

All the best Rick.


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motor roamin

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You are correct..its not people on here that have to make the life threatening decision...its some jobsworth at DVLA who has never met the man.IMO thats wrong,profesional people have examined him and given him a clean bill of health.
I dont know of anyone over the age of 45 who could give an honest answer to "Can you guarantee that for the next 12 months you will NOT suffer another heart attack"
I fail to see what airline pilots have to do with it,but am sure they are in there somwhere.

The DVLA have a medical department that all licences with a medical question mark get refered to, though what qualifications the people in this department have I have no idea.


Have a great new year Rick.
 

ArenqueRojo

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The DVLA have a medical department that all licences with a medical question mark get refered to, though what qualifications the people in this department have I have no idea..

Having had a fair bit of dealing with this department (high blood pressure) I can say that these guys are not only qualified but really good and easy to talk to...

The thing that puzzles me in this thread is that there are only two reasons I can think of when the request to withdraw would apply:
1. The DVLA suspect a fraud is being attempted, or
2. The DVLA think that the applicant won't pass the DVLA's test which is superior to any other private examination and wants to save the applicant wasted expense.

I am guessing that we have missed a page of the script in this thread!

Patrick
 

johnp10

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Well, the whole of Europe must withdraw all "HGV" licences that heart attack victims over 70 hold, no matter whether they still work for a living or what. A member country can't start changing the rules and picking and choosing who they apply them to. Not when it is an EU licence they are issuing anyway.

Then no-one can argue and it is 100% clear that under those circumstances, you can't have this licence.

Me? - I'd back the bloke all the way to Strasbourg and the Court of Human Rights !!

DVLA arent riding over EU legislation here.
Most legislation handed to us by EU, and in some cases the UN, allows derogations from the relevant Regulation or Agreement.
All countries have the facility to do this, not just UK.
It's right that they should be able to decide outcomes.
DVLA has the final say.

The DVLA have a medical department that all licences with a medical question mark get refered to, though what qualifications the people in this department have I have no idea.
Have a great new year Rick.

Not just "box tickers".
The main appeal must, in the first instance, be made to The Drivers' Medical Centre at Swansea.
Ask for reasons as to the request to withdraw the application.
Ask at the same time for justification.

Go through proper procedure, dont listen to the "I think it's shit" brigade.
That will get you nowhere.
Your licence IS a privelidge, NOT an right.
Don't confuse the word "Right" with "Entitlement".

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sedge

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Actually I wonder if the geezer actually knows what his consultant said to the DVLA? I ask that because when I had to voluntarily give up driving for 12 months after suffering 2 bad hypos on the motorway (it was suggested that I did so voluntarily because Dr was obliged to tell DVLA and he thought it would stand me in good stead) Anyway they wrote to him when I told them, and then wrote to me to say they had spoken to him and after 12 months and no further incident, I aoolied to have it re-instated and they asked me again who doc was and next thing (well about 6 weeks later LOL) I had a letter to say they'd contacted him again and would be re-instating my licence, then sent it through.

I have no idea what they said to him or he to them, except he had said providing I was sensible and no further incidents then he'd back me. But oerhaps the Dr said that to this chap too and then didn't?

Who knows!
 
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To be honest this is the bit that confuses me, his application is correct he has done every thing asked of him, his words not mine he has been asked to retract his application, I must admit I have not heard this one before myself, it can only suggest they don't have any grounds on which to reject the application.

Of course I only know what I have been told, and have no evidence to back it up.

To pick up on what Mick said, I very much doubt any one of us could say we wouldn't have a heart attack in the next 12 months but at least he has had an extenstensive medical my last one for my HGV (only a standard D4) was 4 years ago.

Heart attacks run in my family most males don't make it to my age, should that preclude me from holding a HGV licence?

All the best Rick.

I think we're all chasing red herrings here, as Rick say's in the above quote, "I only know what I,ve been told", there is no way you can be told to retract an application without some explanation, as previously stated there's probably a page missing from the transcript!! for christ's sake, it's almost like saying thank you for your application for road tax renewal, please retract it.
 

Tony Santara

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Actually I wonder if the geezer actually knows what his consultant said to the DVLA? I ask that because when I had to voluntarily give up driving for 12 months after suffering 2 bad hypos on the motorway (it was suggested that I did so voluntarily because Dr was obliged to tell DVLA and he thought it would stand me in good stead) Anyway they wrote to him when I told them, and then wrote to me to say they had spoken to him and after 12 months and no further incident, I aoolied to have it re-instated and they asked me again who doc was and next thing (well about 6 weeks later LOL) I had a letter to say they'd contacted him again and would be re-instating my licence, then sent it through.

I have no idea what they said to him or he to them, except he had said providing I was sensible and no further incidents then he'd back me. But oerhaps the Dr said that to this chap too and then didn't?

Who knows!

I have to agree with Sedge and Gooney.............. It's all a bit "He said...She said" we'll probably never know the full story

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JJ

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Snowbird, Have the 70+ HGV drivers who you know also suffered with a heart attack?

The question to ask yourselves before making any decision is, " If the decision to issue this driver with a further HGV licence is down to YOU and he suffers a further heart attack and wipes out a family of 4 with his RV how guilty would you feel?"

...and what about the four teenagers in the car with a license who muck about and wipe out a 70 year old...?

Not sure if you can rule against someone for something that MIGHT happen... anyone can have a heart attack at any time...


JJ
 

ourcampersbeentrashed

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If the DVLA have refused renewal of a licence on medical grounds, or taken away a licence on medical grounds the only redress is through the magistrates court.

A person has 6 months from the date the licence was revoked to apply to the magistrates court if it is a England or Wales Licence,

21 days to apply to the sheriffs office if its a scottish licence

3 months if its an irish licence.



Here is one link

Link Removed

but if you type in disability law service driving licence revoked on google and then click on the quick view of the pdf there is more info there.

The DVLA took away my driving licence on medical grounds a few years ago.

My only course of redress was to apply to the magistrates court. There is a time limit

The DVLA failed to turn up to the first hearing without any excuse given but instead of hearing the case in their absence, the case was postponed with a 2nd date.

As the second date approached I received a number of bullying telephone calls from the DVLA advising that I would lose the case and that they would apply for costs to be awarded against me. Bearing in mind they were coming from Scotland and had very nice overnight hotel accommodation in London - I felt very intimidated epecially when they were talking about costs of several thousand pounds and how much their barrister would cost etc.

I won my case, because I had taken a driving safety "test" with RAC which was laid on by the local council and had the documents to prove I was competent to drive (albeit the test was done in an automatic) the Magistrates said automatic only.

No costs were awarded and the DVLA were reprimanded over the way they dealt with my case.
 
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Excuse the french but '**** Me'!! how scary is this thread getting, by law you go to a doctor and presumably pay for a medical to prove your competency to drive, some uninformed panel who have never met you completely ignore your written assessment and unilaterly conndemn you

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