Ducato based MH prone to wheel spin on grass? (1 Viewer)

Richard W

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My MH is based on a front wheel drive 2004 Ductao 2.8 chassis cab. It’s OK on dry grass, but I’ve had to use the tractor to extract it if the grass is wet or soft. It spins the front wheels quite easily, although it does seem to be better in reverse. Could this be due to a lower gear ratio for reverse? I suspect it is down to my cr*p driving…

Is there a technique for getting this style of MH off a damp / soft grass pitch? I guess the other option is snow chains, although it would make a bit of a mess of the grass and involve a lot of mud removal from the MH.

All ideas and advice welcome.

Happy Travels,
Richard W.
 

bobandjanie

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Hi Richard what you need are some Bread trays and cut the sides off and park on them. :thumb: And tyres with M + S on them. :Smile: Bob.
 

hilldweller

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Is there a technique for getting this style of MH off a damp / soft grass pitch?

Happy Travels,
Richard W.

Make sure you can exit downhill.

They are completely useless for traction. If you haven't noticed on every bend and every roundabout in the wet you're driving like a wuss.
 
Feb 25, 2008
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bread tray bases are the most common as they are light.
There are a number of different methods that are also available.
And agree that m + s on tyres is a good idea..
To narrow down on looking, kumho do a tyre, kl85 and also marshal do a 'road venture'.
Both these tyres i have found are used on commercial vehicles so should have a heavy enough load rating. These may look to be aggresive but they have very good road manners.:thumb:
 
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Richard W

Richard W

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Jul 29, 2010
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Thanks for the comments. I have noticed that it can spin the wheels on the road, if doing a spirited set-off from a road junction.

One problem with the parking spot was that it was beside the (grass) taxiway. I’m used to aircraft handling grass easily (better than tarmac in some cases). There again, they don’t use their wheels for traction.

The MH has been moved to a harder standing location, which solves the problem for the moment. I’m just getting a bit wuss-ish about soft / slick surfaces.


Cheers,
Richard W.

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davejen

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Swap it for a mercedes based m/home!
Cheers, Dave:thumb:
 
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My MH is based on a front wheel drive 2004 Ductao 2.8 chassis cab. It’s OK on dry grass, but I’ve had to use the tractor to extract it if the grass is wet or soft. It spins the front wheels quite easily, although it does seem to be better in reverse. Could this be due to a lower gear ratio for reverse? I suspect it is down to my cr*p driving…

Is there a technique for getting this style of MH off a damp / soft grass pitch? I guess the other option is snow chains, although it would make a bit of a mess of the grass and involve a lot of mud removal from the MH.

All ideas and advice welcome.

Happy Travels,
Richard W.

I agree with the other Brian ( thats got to be a first ).:ROFLMAO:

I used to have a Hymer ( Fiat Ducato )which had a rear garage half the time I couldn't even get off Dry grass.:cry: Always try and park downhill and always reverse onto a pitch with the driving wheels nearest the tarmac. If at all possible Try repositioning your load so it is closer to the front wheels than the back. After many failed attempts of getting off grass and wheel spinning going up a hill in Wales on a B class road I now have changed to a Rear wheeled drive RV.

Brian
 
Nov 6, 2008
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Its because its front wheel drive, and the bulk of the weight is over the rear axle. Thats why rear wheel drive is better for traction on wet grass. l will give you an instance, a loaded 2 wheel drive dumper will ascend a slippery slope better in reverse than forwards, in effect having the drive wheels at the back, also, an automatic gearbox is better for drive control.

Craig

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Richard W

Richard W

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Jul 29, 2010
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Thanks for all the info and advice. I did wonder about the apparent improved traction in reverse. I thought the problem was the weight (of the engine etc) and the relatively high gear ratio in first gear.

I’m interested in tyres as per upmarkethippy’s advice. Would these help with improved traction on snowy roads? As mentioned previously, I’m thinking of investing in some snow change.


Cheers,
Richard W.
 

peter marshall

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My MH is based on a front wheel drive 2004 Ductao 2.8 chassis cab. It’s OK on dry grass, but I’ve had to use the tractor to extract it if the grass is wet or soft. It spins the front wheels quite easily, although it does seem to be better in reverse. Could this be due to a lower gear ratio for reverse? I suspect it is down to my cr*p driving…

Is there a technique for getting this style of MH off a damp / soft grass pitch? I guess the other option is snow chains, although it would make a bit of a mess of the grass and involve a lot of mud removal from the MH.

All ideas and advice welcome.

Happy Travels,
Richard W.
Hi Richard
Same idea as the other posters, but you have to park on them when you set up, and have a clear line of exit til you get on solid ground before you stop and retrieve the trays, ps the yellow wheel mats you buy at the delers are not up to it. Pete :thumb::thumb:
 

rainbow chasers

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Wet grass has the same traction characteristics as snow - so treat it like snow!

As you are front wheel drive, and by motor homes' nature, they have alot of weight on the rear, you will be prone to spinning the wheels. Reverse will gain better traction, especially up hill, as you are effectively making it 'rear wheel' drive.

There are lots of options, but best solution is planned parking, and a little thought. Try to park in the direction you will be leaving. If you a slope, make sure you are facing down hill.

Try the back onto the leveling ramps, as this will give you momentum for departure and stop you sinking. Bread crates are also popular 'sand ladders' that will stop sinking, and aid traction. You can get away with those sample carpet mats if all else fails!

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alcorn54

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Always pushes better than pulls

My MH is based on a front wheel drive 2004 Ductao 2.8 chassis cab. It’s OK on dry grass, but I’ve had to use the tractor to extract it if the grass is wet or soft. It spins the front wheels quite easily, although it does seem to be better in reverse. Could this be due to a lower gear ratio for reverse? I suspect it is down to my cr*p driving…

Is there a technique for getting this style of MH off a damp / soft grass pitch? I guess the other option is snow chains, although it would make a bit of a mess of the grass and involve a lot of mud removal from the MH.

All ideas and advice welcome.

Happy Travels,
Richard W.
Front wheel drive in the wet will always push better than pull.

Same in the snow,so on damp or wet grass or in the snow always try to pull away in a lower ratio gear like second or even third if real slippy and slowly, you'll get better traction. Also when going up a hill in the snow constantly ,and (slowly) move you wheels left to right for extra grip I know youll zig zag but it really does works:thumb::thumb: .::bigsmile:::bigsmile: was taught advance driving and how to drive in slippy conditions in the army years ago never fogot it,Mind you!! it was mostly in a tank :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Also a good tip on braking ,Never slam your barakes on in the wet always pump them on and off even in an emergancy ,itll stop you a lot quicker and ( no aquplaning or skidding )

One more tip,in the winter tie wrap a thin board or tin foil over the front of your radiator or the inside of your grille ittl help stop freezing cold air keeping water cold as your driving ,so your thermostat wont open for a much long time hence cold feet ,also your auto choke will remain on longer in petrol cars hence using more fuel. As wheather warms up remove it ,or as soon as you notice your temptture gauge starts to get hoter than normal ,this tells you it needs more air through radiator to keep cool.
 
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hilldweller

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try to pull away in a lower ratio gear like second or even third if real slippy and slowly, you'll get better traction.

Your theory is fine but I have to say that if you do that in a FIAT you'll cook the clutch and they are specifically excluded from warranty for that reason.
 

alcorn54

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Fiat clutch

Your theory is fine but I have to say that if you do that in a FIAT you'll cook the clutch and they are specifically excluded from warranty for that reason.

Why a FIAT clutch?? Are they made differantly ?

Pulling away ocassionally on wet or slippy surfaces in a lower ratio gear wont really damage your clutch (will it?) unless you really give it some welly? by over reving and slipping your clutch.

Ive done it all my adult driving life (over 35years) various vehicles,buses, lorries ,cars ,vans, etc and neve changed a clutch yet:whatthe:

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pablomc

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Also a good tip on braking ,Never slam your barakes on in the wet always pump them on and off even in an emergancy ,itll stop you a lot quicker and ( no aquplaning or skidding )

Only valid if you do not have ABS. :Smile:
 

hilldweller

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Why a FIAT clutch?? Are they made differantly ?

Yes. Made out of recycled cardboard.

Which is not good when the load is 3.5T and the driving skills of this forum in general will be far lower than yours.

Destroyed clutches featured in the juddergate threads.

I don't recall ever having a clutch go on me in 50 years driving. My wife cooked my 2.8 Capri towing a horse box but luckily after adjustment it recovered. I'm amazed and horrified at reported clutch replacements on MH forums. People accept it as normal.

What is nasty on our 2003 FIAT is a restrictor in the clutch which limits its engagement time. Once up hill on the M6 I slipped it down a gear and hit the throttle too quickly and the clutch did not bite 'till I backed off. That must be 10K miles or more ago, about 10K on the clock, but it still worries me.

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Jun 30, 2010
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AH! HAH! So! Richard is the fella that left those tracks on the grass at the Tewksbury Abby site!
 

alcorn54

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Yes. Made out of recycled cardboard.

Which is not good when the load is 3.5T and the driving skills of this forum in general will be far lower than yours.

Destroyed clutches featured in the juddergate threads.

I don't recall ever having a clutch go on me in 50 years driving. My wife cooked my 2.8 Capri towing a horse box but luckily after adjustment it recovered. I'm amazed and horrified at reported clutch replacements on MH forums. People accept it as normal.

What is nasty on our 2003 FIAT is a restrictor in the clutch which limits its engagement time. Once up hill on the M6 I slipped it down a gear and hit the throttle too quickly and the clutch did not bite 'till I backed off. That must be 10K miles or more ago, about 10K on the clock, but it still worries me.
God almighty Ive learned somthing on here every day:thumb: I have driven all sorts of vehicle all my life. I have or had until last year a license for every vehicle in the uk ,HGV1 & Psv as was,also groups A D E H ,JCB operators license, and Motorbike full . This is the first time Ive come across or heard a clutch made of cardboard or going under 10000 miles with normal wear & tear
. 1. how do Fiat get away with it? and Why !! has Fiat customers & MotorHome owners let them get away with it?:Doh::Doh:Ill have to do some reading up and try and find a repalcement for mine as its now got 10 000 on the clock its been fully serviced but can find no record of a replacement clutch ?? The only thing I thought needed replacing was the timing belt at 50k or there abouts . I think the old fashioned hard wearing parts must be long gone I thought all clutches were all abvestos based ,Manufacturing has gone down the nick..

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Nov 6, 2008
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try to pull away in a lower ratio gear like second or even third if real slippy and slowly, you'll get better traction.


l think you mean a higher ratio, not meaning to be picky.

Craig
 
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Rather than using a higher gear to pull away, why not leave it first and just use a lot less revs. This will elongate the life of the clutch, generaly a lot kinder on the vehicle.
:thumb:
 

alcorn54

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try to pull away in a lower ratio gear like second or even third if real slippy and slowly, you'll get better traction.


l think you mean a higher ratio, not meaning to be picky.

Craig
No it dosnt follow that its a higher gear it a higher ratio. the higher the gear you select the smaller the cog ie lower the ratio.Think of a bike you start of in the largest cog and its easy to pedal,as you get going you change to a smaller cog on the wheel ,your legs go slower and it harder to pedal but you go faster. see attached ratio for an average six speed box all it means is the wheels wont turn as fast or as easy on pull away if you select a higher gear ie second or third , because its a lower ratio than either first or reverse , hence lower!!In 1st gear, the engine makes 2.97 revolutions for every revolution of the transmission’s output. In 4th gear, the gear ratio of 1:1 means that the engine and the transmission’s output are moving at the same speed. 5th and 6th gears are known as overdrive gears, in which the output of the transmission is revolving faster than the engine. Gear Ratio 1st gear 2.97:1 2nd gear 2.07:1 3rd gear 1.43:1 4th gear 1.00:1 5th gear 0.84:1 6th gear0.56:1 reverse 3.38:1.
When in snow or on wet grass ,to pull away you want the wheels to go as slow as possible so they dont spin and loose traction,I was taught in winter or in slippy conditions to select second or third it does work ,but!! at the end of the day its up to you how or what you do. The origonal question was by the auther of this post Is there a technique for getting this style of MH off a damp / soft grass pitch? this my reply and my technique .

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Richard W

Richard W

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Thanks for all the info and ideas. The MH is now on a hard standing elsewhere on the farm, so should be less of a problem.

Long term I’m hoping to put in a drive and parking beside the house, which should solve the problem. Actually, if I’d devoted as much effort to doing the job as I did to photoshopping a picture to see what it would look like, I’d have done it by now!

I’m a bit cautious about clutch slipping, after learning to ride on Brit bikes many years ago. You also learn to replace clutch corks…

Another answer to the traction problem might be a winch. The farmer mentioned he’d seen a free standing 12v one capable of 500lb pull. Having spent some time last week extracting a cow carcass from a bog on the farm using a hand winch, we might go shares.


Happy Travels,
Richard W.
 
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The smaller the cog the higher the ratio.

One revolution of a bicycles pedal in low gear, turns the back wheel maybe half a turn.
Its a lower ratio.
One revolution of a bicycles pedals in high gear, turns the back wheel maybe one turn.
Its a higher ratio.

Craig
 

alcorn54

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The smaller the cog the higher the ratio.

One revolution of a bicycles pedal in low gear, turns the back wheel maybe half a turn.
Its a lower ratio.
One revolution of a bicycles pedals in high gear, turns the back wheel maybe one turn.
Its a higher ratio.

Craig
I,m sorry but I disagreeThe transmission(gearbox) of a car reduces the rotational speed of the drivetrain (Engine) from that appropriate to the engine to that suiting the wheels. It also allows this ratio to change when shifting gear, so that the best ratio is in force for the road speed, keeping the engine speed roughly constant and creating less strain. At top speed, this ratio might be around 4:1[1] with a far higher ratios in the lower gears.

So basicaly if your in first gear the engine would be screeming its nuts of to do 10 miles per hour ,change up to second a lower ratio gear and the engine revs slows down considerably to do the same speed ,eventually in about third gear the engine is going the same speed as the gearbox,then in fourth because of the gear reduction ie: lower ratio of gears in the gearbox the engine will be going slower but you in your vehicle will be going faster. ie: lower ratio. so in top gear the engine would be turning once to the fourtimes the gearbox would be turning . This means approx about a 4/1 ratio in top gear 6th and lets say a 5/1 ratio in 5th so as you change back down the box the engine revs (ratio) increases again ie: goes faster.
So it follows if you change up the ratio gets lower and the engine gets slower! :thumb: Please find an actual gear ratio chart for a manual box for an American Corvette and notice the gear ratios decrease as you change up.Gear Ratio 1st gear 2.97:1 2nd gear 2.07:1 3rd gear 1.43:1 4th gear 1.00:1 5th gear 0.84:1 6th gear0.56:1 reverse 3.38:1. 1st gear is alway a high ratio gear so you can pull away easy with lower revs as is reverse which is always a higher ratio than first and usually runs of the same shaft . Alan

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rainbow chasers

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Thanks for all the info and ideas. The MH is now on a hard standing elsewhere on the farm, so should be less of a problem.

Long term I’m hoping to put in a drive and parking beside the house, which should solve the problem. Actually, if I’d devoted as much effort to doing the job as I did to photoshopping a picture to see what it would look like, I’d have done it by now!

I’m a bit cautious about clutch slipping, after learning to ride on Brit bikes many years ago. You also learn to replace clutch corks…

Another answer to the traction problem might be a winch. The farmer mentioned he’d seen a free standing 12v one capable of 500lb pull. Having spent some time last week extracting a cow carcass from a bog on the farm using a hand winch, we might go shares.


Happy Travels,
Richard W.

Wasting time and money with a winch - especially one with a max pull of 1/4t when you weight 3.5t! It will just snap, take someones' head off and put a hook through your windscreen!

If your vehicle is stuck in away way, you do not just have rolling resistence and gradient resistence to worry about, but winching resistence. These all add weight to your vehicle, meaning more power required from the winch.

Just get some sand ladders/levelling ramps and plan how you park. As I keep saying, treat wert grass as snow, once you get momentum, keep going - you can walk back to get your aids after you reach solid ground. It is the initial movement that will give you difficulty. By using these aids, it helps you pull away - the rest is all momentum!
 

alcorn54

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Wasting time and money with a winch - especially one with a max pull of 1/4t when you weight 3.5t! It will just snap, take someones' head off and put a hook through your windscreen!

If your vehicle is stuck in away way, you do not just have rolling resistence and gradient resistence to worry about, but winching resistence. These all add weight to your vehicle, meaning more power required from the winch.

Just get some sand ladders/levelling ramps and plan how you park. As I keep saying, treat wert grass as snow, once you get momentum, keep going - you can walk back to get your aids after you reach solid ground. It is the initial movement that will give you difficulty. By using these aids, it helps you pull away - the rest is all momentum!

Spot on :thumb::thumb:

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