Roadrunner Electrified (1 Viewer)

[Snowbird]

RR has been electrified over the weekend,he had 4 X 140amp 6 volt batteries fitted giving a total of 560 amps.
Also 2 X 80 watt solar panels to charge em,so if anyone runs out of lecy at the next meet just plug into RR. He was last heard muttering somthing about milkfloats.

 

[Xoxoc]

RR has been electrified over the weekend,he had 4 X 140amp 6 volt batteries fitted giving a total of 560 amps.
Also 2 X 80 watt solar panels to charge em,so if anyone runs out of lecy at the next meet just plug into RR. He was last heard muttering somthing about milkfloats.

Nearly right

4 x 140 amp 6 volt batteries give you a 12v bank at 280amps, not 560amps.

Small point but just didn't want John under any illusions as to how much power he has

Bryan

 

[pappajohn]

was going to say that but got sidetracked oh:

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[hilldweller]

Nearly right
4 x 140 amp 6 volt batteries give you a 12v bank at 280amps, not 560amps.
Bryan

NEARLY ?

You have to be in government to make that big an error.

And don't forget the 50% for ordinary batteries so in reality just 140Ah.

Oh Please! that's just what it says on my piddling little MIG welder.

And on top of that he has No Money.

 

[scotjimland]

was going to say that but got sidetracked oh:

so was I, but got sidetracked reading about sensitive tits

 

[hilldweller]

reading about sensitive tits

I didn't get where I am today by reading about sensitive tits.

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[Road Runner]

No worries as I had all the bits for a while so just the fitting charge, would have had em on ages ago if my toe and had not brought me to a halt.

All the power I will need for now hopefully.

Had so other must have catch up jobs done as well

 

[tofo]

No worries as I had all the bits for a while so just the fitting charge, would have had em on ages ago if my toe and had not brought me to a halt.

All the power I will need for now hopefully.

Had so other must have catch up jobs done as well

so now RR has been electricfied do we call him old sparky now:thumb:

 

[Snowbird]

Sorry about the confusion chaps,but correct me if am wrong but are 4 X 140 amp 6 volts better than 2 X 140 amp 12 volt as I thought they could be discharged lower than the 12 volt batteries.
There must be some difference in them as the 6 volts are twice the weight of 12 volt batteries.

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[pappajohn]

think the difference is, Dave, the 6v have a deeper discharge limit than 12v.

the weight difference will be the 6v 'traction' batteries have much thicker plates than a 12v to prevent oxydizing at deep discharge.

usually off golf buggies and forklifts that work all day and get charged at night.

 

[Snowbird]

Well chaps,can you please advise on this item no,on evilbay--320603908569
This is a battery bank of 6X2 volt 96 amp batteries, making a total of 580 amps. If this being the case and they are only making 96 amps in total,why not just fit a 95 amp Numax and save on weight?. Surely there must be somthing to be gained from the bigger bank.I always thought I was pretty clued up on batteries,just goes to show,you never stop learning.:thumb:

 

[Xoxoc]

AFAIK true deep cycle batteries (like the sort that RR John appears to now have) can be used down to 20% capacity remaining, whereas normal 12 volt FLA batteries (including car, leisure, marine etc) can only be used down to 50% capacity.

They are also designed for many deep discharges and normal batteries are designed for starting an engine, so the deep cycle batteries should have better longevity etc.

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[scotjimland]

Interesting reading with a useful calculator ..

http://www.gizmology.net/batteries.htm

 

[Snowbird]

AFAIK true deep cycle batteries (like the sort that RR John appears to now have) can be used down to 20% capacity remaining, whereas normal 12 volt FLA batteries (including car, leisure, marine etc) can only be used down to 50% capacity.

They are also designed for many deep discharges and normal batteries are designed for starting an engine, so the deep cycle batteries should have better longevity etc.

Thanks for that Bryan,but that dosnt explain how a huge battery bank like that only has a measley capacity of 96 amps.Am I missing somthing here or is it just very confusing.Surely a bank of batteries weighing 250 kgs will run a TV for longer than one 95 amp normal leasure battery.I understand there is a lot of confusion regarding leasure batteries by the amount of posts on them,now I know why.I always was under the impresion that amps were the capacity tthat the bettery held in reserve,thats why they are called amp hours.If you add 2 X 100 amp hour batteries together that will give you 200 amp hours,or thats what I always thought,just shows how wrong we can be.

 

[Xoxoc]

In your example both banks will have 96 amps.


But the benefits of the deep cycle 2v batteries are that they allow you to use more of the amp capacity AND are designed to be deep discharged and charged many many times. Leisure 12v batteries are designed to start engines and whilst they can be used for leisure purposes they are not designed for it and so will die quicker. Normally the cost/life expectancy ratio means that most users stay with 12v leisure batteries.

Also, weight/size considerations normally mean that a lot of motorhomers can't consider anything other than normal 12v leisure batteries.

See if this helps explain it:

Deep Cycle vs. Starter BatteriesBatteries are typically built for specific purposes and they differ in construction accordingly. Broadly speaking, there are two applications that manufacturers build their batteries for: Starting and Deep Cycle.

• As the name implies, Starter Batteries are meant to get combustion engines going. They have many thin lead plates which allow them to discharge a lot of energy very quickly for a short amount of time. However, they do not tolerate being discharged deeply, as the thin lead plates needed for starter currents degrade quickly under deep discharge and re-charging cycles. Most starter batteries will only tolerate being completely discharged a few times before being irreversibly damaged.
• Deep Cycle batteries have thicker lead plates that make them tolerate deep discharges better. They cannot dispense charge as quickly as a starter battery but can also be used to start combustion engines. You would simply need a bigger deep-cycle battery than if you had used a dedicated starter type battery instead. The thicker the lead plates, the longer the life span, all things being equal. Battery weight is a simple indicator for the thickness of the lead plates used in a battery. The heavier a battery for a given group size, the thicker the plates, and the better the battery will tolerate deep discharges.
• Some "Marine" batteries are sold as dual-purpose batteries for starter and deep cycle applications. However, the thin plates required for starting purposes inherently compromise deep-cycle performance. Thus, such batteries should not be cycled deeply and should be avoided for deep-cycle applications unless space/weight constraints dictate otherwise.

Bryan


.

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[Snowbird]

Interesting reading with a useful calculator ..

http://www.gizmology.net/batteries.htm

Many thanks for that Jim,am more confused now than ever.
Acording to Peukerts Formula,I was right the first time RR does have 560 amp battery bank.Does anyone know if Peukert is a fully paid up member of fun,if so will wait for his reply

 

[scotjimland]

Re battery 'physical' size

Battery manufacturers always give the ah rating for the lowest possible discharge rate ..

ie .. 100ah battery will in theory give 1amp for 100 hrs .. but this isn't a constant factor,

the same battery wouldn't give 100 amps for 1 hour.. probably be dead in less than half an hour.

A physically bigger battery will be able to supply a higher current for a longer time than a smaller one, even though they are both rated the same.

if we have two 100ah batteries but different physical size the larger will give a better performance to the smaller for the same rate of discharge over a longer period.

 

[scotjimland]

Many thanks for that Jim,am more confused now than ever.
Acording to Peukerts Formula,I was right the first time RR does have 560 amp battery bank.Does anyone know if Peukert is a fully paid up member of fun,if so will wait for his reply

I'll try and explain ...

RR has 4 x 140ah 6v batteries

so, they are connected

2 in series to give 12v = 140ah

so now we have 2 pairs of batteries, each pair = 140ah

these pairs are connected in parallel 2x 140ah = 280ah

Peukert has a lot to answer for

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[Snowbird]

Re battery 'physical' size

Battery manufacturers always give the ah rating for the lowest possible discharge rate ..

ie .. 100ah battery will in theory give 1amp for 100 hrs .. but this isn't a constant factor,

the same battery wouldn't give 100 amps for 1 hour.. probably be dead in less than half an hour.

A physically bigger battery will be able to supply a higher current for a longer time than a smaller one, even though they are both rated the same.

if we have two 100ah batteries but different physical size the larger will give a better performance to the smaller for the same rate of discharge over a longer period.

A good explanation Jim,I now understand why there has been so many posts re leasure batteries.Its a very confusing subject which involves all of us that have motorhomes.
We all need batteries in one form or another as no motorhome will function without them,I think its the most discused and most confusing topic of all.
Since the post on desulphating I have taken a great deal of interest in batteries and there care and use.When I have been to the shows I have always been amazed at the amount of people wheeling new batteries around,it has to be the biggest money spinner of all.What with the ever increasing price of batteries, am sure there should be more done to increase the lifespan of them.The more knowledge we have on there care and use the better.

 

[slobadoberbob]

so much room

It would be real nice to be able to have the space to fit bigger batteries.. but I just have no room..blast.. hope it works for you John

Bob:thumb:

 

[Snowbird]

I'll try and explain ...

RR has 4 x 140ah 6v batteries

so, they are connected

2 in series to give 12v = 140ah

so now we have 2 pairs of batteries, each pair = 140ah

these pairs are connected in parallel 2x 140ah = 280ah

Peukert has a lot to answer for

The confusing part is that it states on each battery...6 volt...140amp.
What it should say is...6volt 70amp...unless connected together to make 12volt...........Its all Peukerts fault:thumb:

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[Xoxoc]

Interesting reading with a useful calculator ..

http://www.gizmology.net/batteries.htm

Nice calculator :thumb:

 

[hilldweller]

Nice calculator :thumb:

Pssst! Seen This 'Thanks' Button?

What's this ? Bryan the attention seeker ? Is Suzy going through a headache stage ? Feeling unloved ?

Never mind, all will be sorted in Zahora.

 

[pablomc]

The confusing part is that it states on each battery...6 volt...140amp.
What it should say is...6volt 70amp...unless connected together to make 12volt...........Its all Peukerts fault:thumb:

The best way to think of it is:

If you connect the batteries in series, the voltage increases to the sum of the number of batteries, but the current rating remains constant.

E.G Series Connection
Voltage X (Number of batteries)
2 x 6V = 12V, but still 140A

If you connect the batteries in parallel the current rating increases to the sum of the number of batteries, but the voltage remains constant.

E.G Parallel Connection
2 x 140A = 280A, but still 6V
-----------------------------------------------

In this case 2 of each of the the batteries have been connected in series to make a 12 Volt battery still at 140A.

Then the new formed batteries (2 each in series) have then been connected in parallel to make 12v 280A.

Have probably confused the issue again. oh:

If you have trouble remembering which does which, parallel contains the letter "A" which means it is Amps that will increase.

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[scotjimland]

E.G Parallel Connection
2 x 140A = 240A, but still 6V

maybe your calculator needs a battery

 

[pablomc]

maybe your calculator needs a battery

No idea what you mean. That's not what I wrote.












Thanks for pointing that out Jim. Must remember to only do one thing at a time. oh::thumb:

 

[scotjimland]

No idea what you mean. That's not what I wrote.

:

suuuuuuuuuuuure.

thank god for the edit button

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[Snowbird]

Now I know for sure why everone is confused about battery banks.
I have been playing around with big battery banks for years thinking I knew all there was to know about them.Just goes to show how wrong you can be.
What I do know is that huge battery banks last longer than small ones.
Shaws Law.

 

[scotjimland]

What I do know is that huge battery banks last longer than small ones.
Shaws Law.

and that's all you really need to know... :thumb:

when asked, ' how big should I buy ' .. I always say.. when your locker is full or your wallet is empty .. which ever comes first

 

[Road Runner]

It seems to me I have 280 amps that can still power down to 20% whereas 2 X 110 amp leisure batteries can only power down to 50%.

I am still very happy I think :Wacko:

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