UK border control (1 Viewer)

[62164]

My friend has a converted camper van and has put some additional seats in it to accomodate for a group of us going to france via dover. He hasn't bothered to update hus v5 document and I'm not sure how the vehicle is insured. Does anyone know if the v5 etc is checked at either the uk or French border? I'm worried we won't won't be able to cross and it will ruin the holiday for everyone.

 

[gus-lopez]

no one has ever asled to look at any registration docs either in UK or France with me.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Mmm converted vehicle with added seats and not sure about insurance cover.

Don’t think I’d be traveling in it until I knew it was fully compliant.

Not a can of worms at all really ??

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[normanandsue]

Problems won't arise until either involved in an accident or you are stopped by the police. Then serious issues could arise.

My advice as others don't travel in this vehicle

 

[chaser]

It's the sort of thing we have all done years ago but doubt if you will get past v5 , insurance, border control, just to name three, shame but times have moved on, probably for the best I suppose.

 

[62164]

Problems won't arise until either involved in an accident or you are stopped by the police. Then serious issues could arise.

My advice as others don't travel in this vehicle

As a passenger could I be held liable for anything or is it just the owner?

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[Spriddler]

In dozens of trips abroad by car, m/bike and m/home I've never been asked to show any document anywhere (with the exception of my passport).

The insurance issue is another matter as the additional seating must be compliant (esp. regarding seat belts) depending upon the regs applicable to the age of the vehicle.
I suspect that a group of you (how many? what vehicle?) in an obviously modified vehicle might attract further inspection though. Customs/Border personnel are pretty clued up on what vehicles should look like.
A vehicle overloaded with people and their kit would handle like a rolling pig. I wouldn't go in it.

 

[Silver-Fox]

As a passenger could I be held liable for anything or is it just the owner

If they have an accident and your not injured the insurance may not payout.

It’s that simple I’m afraid

 

[62164]

Fyi the van is insured as a campervan/motorhome and the seats are all fitted properly with seatbelts. Are you allowed to carry passengers in a campervan? It is also sign written but not a commercial vehicle.

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[62164]

I suspect that a group of you (how many? what vehicle?) in an obviously modified vehicle might attract further inspection though. Customs/Border personnel are pretty clued up on what vehicles should look like.
A vehicle overloaded with people and their kit would handle like a rolling pig. I wouldn't go in it.

There's 5 of us travelling. He has fitted 2 extra seats as it has 3 in the front already.

 

[Minxy]

You can carry passengers in a campervan if the seats are compliant BUT the V5 will need to be altered to show the number of travel seats and the insurance company will need to be informed too and may ask for an engineers report to confirm the seats are compliant and are fitted correctly.

Personally I wouldn't travel in it unless it was totally legit/registered etc ... if there's an accident the insurance won't pay out but it's worse than that, as he has modified the vehicle without informing his insurers then in effect he will be uninsured even without driving it.

When insurance is taken out it is done on the number of people who could travel in it, so if it only has 3 belted seats (including driver), that's 3 people, if the vehicle is modified to take 5, the insurers won't have taken the extra 2 passengers into account when insuring it so IMV in effect the 'contract' will have been broken.

Oh, of course, then there's payload to consider ...

 

[Minxy]

As a passenger could I be held liable for anything or is it just the owner?

Not that I know of however if you are injured in an accident you wouldn't get a payout if it was the driver's fault as his insurance would be invalid.

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[Emmit]

If your vehicle has five belts and, all together, there are five in the vehicle ALL BELTED then there is no problem empty.
If however, as we used to do, fill every cranny with booze and, depending on the weight of your travelling companions, you might find yourself in the serious doo doo (legal expression) should youeither, have an accident or stopped by the authorities.

I also agree that you should uppdate the details of the change with the insurance and DVLA.

 

[Spriddler]

You haven't said the year and model of the vehicle. It's very problematic to retrofit seat belts that are compliant. In any case it's all academic since if any vehicle has been modified one is obliged to inform one's insurer. Extra seats are a modification from the details on the V5c.
From the info you've given I wouldn't go in it.

 

[PhilMary]

In April this year I was stopped at Dover by customs coming back from France. The only paperwork he wanted to see was the V5???
Phil

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[Spriddler]

In 1966 I put an unfixed ex bus seat (complete with cigarette stubber on the back) in the rear of my TV rental firm's windowless Ford 5cwt van (yes, most folk used to hire, not buy TV's in those days) and five of us (three in the back) had a long weekend camping in France, totally uninsured but oblivious to that. Seat belts were not obligatory then. I disconnected the speedo cable to prevent the mileage increasing. You could also do that then.
The world was far less litigious too.

At weekends all that I normally had in the back was a mattress, a bottle of Woodpecker cider and two glasses No breathalysers either.

 

[TerryL]

Many years ago I was stopped at the French border whilst driving a minibus. They wanted to ensure the vehicle complied with licensing laws, i.e. number of seats compared to my driving licence. Luckily we had foreseen this possibility and taken out one of the seats - there was some umming and aaring but eventually they let us pass.

Don't think you'd get away with that these days though.

 

[Mrsambulancekidd]

Fyi the van is insured as a campervan/motorhome and the seats are all fitted properly with seatbelts. Are you allowed to carry passengers in a campervan? It is also sign written but not a commercial vehicle.

My question would be, why would anyone not want the modifications to be recorded on the V5, is there a reason they don't want them to be checked.
As it stands it's only the word of the owner that says it all safe......

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[treetops1]

I think there is as much chance of being stopped as being a man in the moon ,but for everyone’s safety it’s best to be compliant with the law and if there was a problem you do not want to give the insurance company an excuse to refuse to pay .Enjoy lol.

 

[tacr2man]

V5 is not interested in number of seats unless it is a minibus or bus have a look on your it wont show number of seats or standing as its used as mentioned . (S1 & S2 ) . The insurance company asks about modifications , number of seats notified is an issue with them as it affects their calculations for premium , eg with LR SW can be from 7 to 12. In event of accident the ins co cannot escape 3rd party liability , as a passenger and not the insured you are a 3rd party .
They can refuse payout on vehicle to insured , and also sue .
A few years back I owned an ex disabled minibus with wheelchair tail lift , it had unwin tracking and removable seats with integral belts . I used it as a van /car The ins co allowed me to operate with a maximum number of seats (8) or below , the premium was based on the high number . HTSH

 

[Silver-Fox]

If they have an accident and your not injured the insurance may not payout.

It’s that simple I’m afraid

Obviously should read you’re injured ?

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[GPW]

As above, insurance is key. Just take another car with the group if you need too, that can be useful anyway. Most problems can be solved by added a car, local transport + 5 legal seats .

As for the borders, I did an entire tour of France and only got home before I realised when booking the ferry that I'd thought of using an entirely different vehicle (still of the same type), but no one ever checked the number plate.

 

[Anthea M]

Take another car and play safe enjoy !

 

[62164]

Panic over. He has now updated his insurance! Dvla are apparently not accepting changes to v5s so it is classed as "in progress" conversion

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[Speve]

From DVLA website.
Changes you need to update
You must update your V5C if you change any of the following:

• colour
• engine
• cylinder capacity (cc)
• fuel type
• chassis or bodyshell (replaced or modified)
• seating capacity
• weight of a large vehicle, for example goods vehicle or campervan

Changes that may need inspection
You must also update your V5C if you change any of the following:

• wheel plan
• body type, for example you convert a van to a campervan or ’motor caravan’ (DVLA gives a body type description based on the vehicle’s external appearance)
• vehicle identification number (VIN)
• chassis number
• frame number for motorbikes

DVLA will tell you if they need to inspect the change

 

[Spriddler]

From DVLA website.
Changes you need to update
You must update your V5C if you change any of the following:

• colour
• engine
• cylinder capacity (cc)
• fuel type
• chassis or bodyshell (replaced or modified)
• seating capacity
• weight of a large vehicle, for example goods vehicle or campervan

Changes that may need inspection
You must also update your V5C if you change any of the following:

• wheel plan
• body type, for example you convert a van to a campervan or ’motor caravan’ (DVLA gives a body type description based on the vehicle’s external appearance)
• vehicle identification number (VIN)
• chassis number
• frame number for motorbikes

DVLA will tell you if they need to inspect the change

Quite so. I've been there and had to do exactly that.
However, as often happens we don't have all the facts insofar that the 'new' seats may have been fitted (or refitted) to pre-existing (but hitherto unused) manufacturer's mounting points.
Installing compliant seats and seatbelts in positions that do not have pre-existing manufacturer's mounting points is problematic and requires specific and professional engineering expertise. It is by no means a case of merely bolting them to a few reinforcing steel plates. Firms specialise in these conversions.

 

[Speve]

v5s so it is classed as "in progress" conversion

Surely an in progress conversion would not be driveable? As it doesn’t have a correct V5C ?

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[chaser]

Surely an in progress conversion would not be driveable? As it doesn’t have a correct V5C ?

Not really an answer but just a fact, it can still be used but only in its old state, such as a van can only be used as a van no matter what it's got in till dvla say different.

 

[chaser]

Remember the old days when about a dozen of us went to work on the site in the back of an old Bedford CA.
Happy days.

 

[Speve]

Remember the old days when about a dozen of us went to work on the site in the back of an old Bedford CA.
Happy days.

Yes a plank with a couple of concrete bocks for legs and you used to get choked by fag smoke.
Strangely enough very happy days as we used to enjoy our work no pressure just hard work.?

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