Calor Propane Liight (1 Viewer)

dellwood33

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I ran out of gas at the CC Site at Hillend near Salisbury. No problem I thought, they usually have ample supplies. This had one bottle available and I only had to pay £25.99 for the swap ! :Angry:
I am currently at a CC site at Ferry Meadow s & their price is £21 per bottle :Smile:.
Obviously the gas gets cheaper as you travel north - How much will it be at the Lincoln Show ? ::bigsmile:
 

GJH

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Probably higher price at the show - there's normally a premium at such events.

Just had a look on the Calor web site and they don't give a price for Calor Lite. Probably embarrassed to admit how much extra they charge over the standard bottle.

Graham
 

scotjimland

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Just had a look on the Calor web site and they don't give a price for Calor Lite. Probably embarrassed to admit how much extra they charge over the standard bottle.

Graham

AFAIK .. they charge £2 more than a standard bottle .. another Calor rip off

on the plus side.. you can refill using the ebay adaptor .. :thumb:

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keith

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You beat me to it Jim.

Only cost me £7 last time I filled one. :thumb:
 

pablomc

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I keep seeing this mention of using an ebay adaptor to refill, but where can you actually refill a bottle in the UK?
 

WynandJean

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I can't help wondering why Calor are able to hold the monopoly on gas in this country. Surely if we are all members of the EU all of the companies should have equal rights to sell their products. I much prefer Butagas' Le Cube to Calor gas

Wyn

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hilldweller

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on the plus side.. you can refill using the ebay adaptor .. :thumb:

In one breath you are pouring scorn on anyone daft enough to go near electricity and here you clearly condone the illegal and dangerous act of filling Calor tanks.

From here they look equally dangerous with the added spice that filling the tank is illegal.

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John & Joan

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I can't help wondering why Calor are able to hold the monopoly on gas in this country. Surely if we are all members of the EU all of the companies should have equal rights to sell their products. I much prefer Butagas' Le Cube to Calor gas

Wyn

Calor don't hold a monopoly, there are many other companies. FloGas, BP to name a couple.

What is lacking is standardisation of couplings. Each company has its own type and size of clip-on regulator. The only common fitting is the screw fitting on the small blue calor bottles. In this country all propane suppliers use the same fitting, but this fitting is different on the continent, where the small screw thread seems to be in regular use for both butane and propane.

When I was a Calor agent I had to sign an agreement that stated, when I ceased to supply their gas I could not supply another brand for 2 years. Now that is wrong.

Calor is by and large the widest available brand. As a result if you wish to move about and get refills easily you stand a better chance of getting a Calor replacement to any other brand.

John
 

Jim

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In one breath you are pouring scorn on anyone daft enough to go near electricity and here you clearly condone the illegal and dangerous act of filling Calor tanks.


Brian, you know the score, we argue with the content of posts rather than dig at the poster. We know where that ends and the type of forum we end up with:whatthe:. No personal stuff please. Thanks:Smile:
 

hilldweller

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Brian, you know the score, we argue with the content of posts rather than dig at the poster. We know where that ends and the type of forum we end up with:whatthe:. No personal stuff please. Thanks:Smile:

Sorry, I didn't see it in that light, I was showing how posts are biased by the experience of the poster.

Quite rightly Jim said the proposed electrical idea of Bryan was fatally flawed.

But, with no gas qualifications, he ( and many other FUNsters ) condone filling gas tanks.

It's a cautionary tale for all FUNsters, any advice seen is just as likely to kill or cure you.

It was not intended as a personal attack.

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Terry

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In one breath you are pouring scorn on anyone daft enough to go near electricity and here you clearly condone the illegal and dangerous act of filling Calor tanks.

From here they look equally dangerous with the added spice that filling the tank is illegal.

It is not illegal to refill your own bottles :thumb:
UNTIL Calor see fit to give me my 3 x £25 deposit back on the said bottles ( after 2 years and the co, I bought them off going bust :Eeek:) I shall consider them now my own and as such refill them when I see fit :thumb: If they want to reimburse me for the bottles I will gladly let them have them ::bigsmile::winky: and continue to use/fill my own non Calor bottles :thumb:
terry
 

Jim

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But, with no gas qualifications, he ( and many other FUNsters ) condone filling gas tanks.

Then address the issue not the persons:Smile:

It was not intended as a personal attack.

I did not see it as an "attack", but I just re-read it and it did look like you were having a pop at Scotjimland for his views on those two issues.

I accept that you say this was not intentional, let's leave it there. Thanks:Smile:
 

GJH

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It is not illegal to refill your own bottles :thumb:
UNTIL Calor see fit to give me my 3 x £25 deposit back on the said bottles ( after 2 years and the co, I bought them off going bust :Eeek:) I shall consider them now my own and as such refill them when I see fit :thumb: If they want to reimburse me for the bottles I will gladly let them have them ::bigsmile::winky: and continue to use/fill my own non Calor bottles :thumb:
terry

Interesting post because I genuinely don't know the law covering this.

Strictly speaking, according to the Link Removed none of us can claim ownership of Calor bottles as the contract does not pass title and none of us can fill the bottles ourselves as the contract forbids it :Smile:

Leaving that aside, however, what is the legislation (if any) which covers refilling of Calor type bottles (as opposed to fitted systems such as Gaslow/Alugas)? Is there any statute which allows it or any statute which forbids it?

Presumably if the law is silent then (again leaving aside the Calor Refill Agreement) we have to rely on the terms of the contract we enter into with the LPG supplier we use and whether or not they ban filling of such cylinders. Is that the case?

Graham

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hilldweller

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It is not illegal to refill your own bottles :thumb:
terry

That is why I specified Calor. Legally ( morally does not count ) they own them and rent them to you and the rental agreement says you are not allowed to fill them.

Gaslow, which I have, are owned by me and contain an overfill prevention cut off valve.

This was a serious safety comment, Jim and several others did a good job of making FUNsters aware of the dangers of 3 phase electricity. But for some reason many people actively encourage filling gas tanks which if done incorrectly is more dangerous than 415V which is relatively localised in it's damage zone whereas a gas tank venting can take out a hundred yard blast zone. We all see this on TV, the fire brigade clear whole streets if they find gas tanks are involved.

I hope I've not offended Jim but I make no apologies in making people think hard about refilling gas bottles. People who buy the fillers will probably be quite safe filling them but one day we'll get "Dad I filled the bottles for you".
 

GJH

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Here is a clue:

Link Removed

Thanks Brian. Obviously adequate training in the use of any hazardous tool/substance is a good idea but I was actually trying to find out the legal position. If the law prohibits user filling then even if the user were fully trained he would still be prohibited.

Graham

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Jim

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If you google it, you just get lots of threads like this on motorhome and boating forums; arguing whether it is or isn't illegal.::bigsmile: If over-filled bottles are as dangerous as some say they are; then clearly the practise should be illegal. :Eeek:
 

johnp10

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We've been here before, and I make no apology for repeating my views.

The filling of gas cylinders using mickey mouse adapters is a dangerous practice, as is carrying them or filling them laid on thier sides in a car boot, as has been suggested in previous threads.
LPG cylinders must be stored, transported and used upright: check out the relevant MSDS.

We are getting back into the "It suits me, therefore it's ok" way of thinking.
Legislation or no legislation, if the practice as advised by some on here was safe, the fuel companies would not only allow it, but would encourage it to increase sales.
Fuel Companies are far more interested in profit than some are in saving a few bob.
There will be those who will say they have "never had a problem refilling cylinders".
What is missing from the above statement is "yet".

I work in the dangerous goods world, and misuse by unqualified untrained people is something I feel strongly about.
The horror stories regarding cock ups due to corner cutting by people who THINK they know better than the manufacturer / producer of substances are endless.
PEOPLE GET KILLED!
When something goes bang it will probably be someone elses fault, it always is.
Refilling gas cylinders improperly is both irresponsible and dangerous.

I have just checked the Calor agreement, and the stated fill method in the terms and conditions is by exchange.
This agreement, like any other, constitutes a contract.

What price is your safety and the safety of others?
 

johnp10

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If you google it, you just get lots of threads like this on motorhome and boating forums; arguing whether it is or isn't illegal.::bigsmile: If over-filled bottles are as dangerous as some say they are; then clearly the practise should be illegal. :Eeek:

Jim,
The over filling of any pressure vessel is dangerous.
Overfilling will not leave an adequate ullage space, allowing gas / liquid to expand safely due to atmospheric changes.

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scotjimland

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To clarify my position on filling LPG bottles .. (I say LPG as there is more than one brand but no doubt they all forbid refilling)

I said you 'can' refill, which is a statement of fact .. and it 'can' be done safely but by the same token it 'can' be done dangerously with disastrous results .

I have no idea if it is legal or not, Graham made a good post on that issue.

Brian pointed out the undeniable dangers and hazards of filling LPG bottles..

So, even though I have filled bottles and done so safely, I will not give refilling instructions or advise anyone else.

Brian, I accept it wasn't intended as a personal attack but it did feel like you were having a 'pop' , albeit with the best intentions.. no offence taken .. The most important thing is each others safety when dealing with potentially lethal fuels and energy sources.
 

freelanderuk

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copied this from another site

LPGA advice on refilling gas cylinders
(First published 2004, scroll down for latest update - 4/12/07)

Calor issued advice to their autogas refilling stations based on a statement issued by the LPGA, which is an LPG industry trade association. It appears that this advice may preclude users from refilling bona fide refillable cylinders.

We asked Calor to clarify this, and they said:

"It is correct to say that the LPGA does not approve the refilling of portable cylinders at filling stations. The fitment of tanks to motorhomes by the manufacturer is covered by the construction and use regs so that's generally ok. Retro-fitting into gas storage lockers of cylinders is not covered by these regs so is not ok."

This seems to mean that they will not allow any 'retro-fitted' cylinders to be refilled - even those professionally installed with a permanent connection to an external filling point. It may even mean that retro-fitted gas tanks cannot be refilled.

We copy below the statement originally issued by the LPGA:

"It is our advice that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be refilled at autogas refuelling sites. It is our view that UK Health and Safety law, particularly the new Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations (DSEAR) and the Transportable Pressure Vessels Regulations, impose significant duties on the site operator to ensure safety. Autogas filling points are places of work and their personnel have responsibility for safety to everyone on the site, including the general public. They authorise the flow of gas from the dispenser and they may be considered, in law, the filler. Safe filling of LPG cylinders requires appropriate expertise and/or equipment. Staff at autogas filling points cannot fulfil statutory obligations as they have neither. Were there to be any accident the site operator could be liable to prosecution. Tanks which are permanently attached to a vehicle for heating or cooking (on camper vans or similar) come under the Road Vehicles Construction and Use Regulations and present similar risks on filling to those for propulsion purposes and may be permitted to be re-filled at autogas refuelling sites."

Update (9/9/04):

Following an exchange of emails, Calor made a reply to the following question that we posed:
"Can I take it from what you say that there is therefore no problem with refilling a purpose made refillable cylinder that is permanently, professionally, fitted into a gas locker of a motorhome, with a permanent
connection to an external filling point?"

Calor's reply:
"No not really because the location (i.e within a locker which may be designed for emergency services to remove a cylinder quickly)and the nature of the intention of use of the original cylinder design is questionable. The liability associated with any of this prescriptive approval advice is also something that we are not qualified to give."

We have also been in contact with the LPGA, whose view seems to diverge slightly from Calor's. They say:
"Basically if the tank is fixed to the vehicle structure and meets the Road Vehicles Construction and Use Regulations (ie is to ECE67-01, has a fuel gauge, stop fill valve an outlet shut off valve and a purpose designed inlet fitting it is, we believe OK as the risks are the same as filling an LPG fuelled vehicle tank. This is reflected in the final paragraph [of the original LPGA statement].

Cylinders that have to be lifted out to fill or which do not meet the fuel tank criteria are the subject of the first four paragraphs of our statement.

The important thing to realise is that the filling station operator has the major health and safety duties, not the customer."

Update 4/12/07

In June 2007 the LPGA issued an update to their previous advice, they reiterate their advice that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be refilled at autogas refuelling sites, but now state:

Vessels which are attached to a vehicle for heating or cooking (on camper vans or similar) present similar risks on filling to those for propulsion purposes and may be permitted to be refilled at autogas refuelling sites provided they:

* remain in-situ for refilling; and
* are fitted with a device to physically prevent filling beyond 80%; and
* are connected to a fixed filling connector which is not part of the vessel.

This seems to us to mean that refillable cylinders, such as those with an 80% stop-fill valve sold by Gaslow and MTH for example, providing they are properly fitted, can be refilled without problem.
 

aba

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in the news the other day was a coffee machine that exploded injuring about 20 people i believe that this was down to a faulty pressure valve so by effect over filling the tank and this was only water and steam pressure id hate to think how catastrophic this would be with something flammable like LPG.

andy

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pablomc

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Think I will stick to swapping my cylinder. BTW, Dick I payed £19 to swap a standard 6KG for Lite just last week (Brownhills - Birtley).

Apologies for taking the thread off on a tangent, but some very valid points made. :thumb:
 
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dellwood33

dellwood33

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I have found Birtley Brownhills to be the cheapest for gas too !
Perhaps they have the wrong RRP list ::bigsmile:
 

Terry

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Unless something has been passed within the last 9 months that I am not aware of :Eeek: AS IT STANDS AT THE MOMENT -all the things you read are only recommendations
Brian your link
Persons using LPG for purposes other than work such as caravan owners are not legally obliged to have LPG training but would also benefit from the safety information contained in these workshops.
As it stands -rightly or wrongly it is not illegal to refill your own bottles- It may go against recommendations :winky:
Not having a go at anyone :thumb: make up your own mind :Smile:
After reading 1,000s of pages on this subject, as yet there have been no incidents reported of accidents where the blame is down to refill adapters -NONE-- Lots of explosions for different reasons - lots of reports of leaks from refillable systems ie pipes, bends, knuckles and faulty 80 % cut off failures.:ROFLMAO:
terry
 
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dellwood33

dellwood33

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Or perhaps they've heard too many Geordies saying "I'm not paying that much" :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Graham

Brownhills at Birtley is South of the Tyne and is NOT in geordieland ::bigsmile:

I think the expression is " Whaaaaat ! I'm no paying that ! " :ROFLMAO:
 

scotjimland

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as yet there have been no incidents reported of accidents where the blame is down to refill adapters -NONE--

terry

Hi Terry..

In my opinion ( don't want jumped on, so it is ONLY MY OPINION ) the adapter in not intrinsically dangerous .. it's the muppet using it that will cause an accident ..

As I see it there are two main dangers ..

a) Overfilling the bottle beyond the safe limit of 87% ( Calor use this as a max safe fill )
b) Forgetting to isolate the bottle BEFORE removing the filling gun

Overfilling MAY result in liquid LPG entering the LP side of the van regulator.. I haven't seen this happen but I can imagine it could be alarming , to say the least.

Forgetting to isolate the bottle WOULD result in a large gas cloud on the forecourt .. again, I haven't seen this happen but I don't want to be around when , not if, it happens.

So, there we have it, safe if used correctly ... but extremely dangerous in the wrong hands ..

Ask yourself this question .. If you were an LPG proprietor would you be happy with people using them.. ?

I know my answer.. but again. it is only my opinion ...

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