Fiat Ducato Dpf Sensor (1 Viewer)

[Phill D]

thats the dpf end the sensor is at the other end of the 2 pipes you refer too. it will likely have 2 flexi pipes going into it with 2 clips on and 2 bolts holding it to the chassis .

if your chassis is a Ducato its right hand side on the chassis above the exhaust in front of the dpf. and look like this...

if its a Merc i dont know where it is but will look similar.

whatever you have you should not need to unscrew the pipes from the dpf unless you got an internal problem as they are just hollow pipes that transfer the air pressuire to the sensor.
fault code P2454 is related to dPF sensor readings so "probably" and most likely means your sensor is at fault. or its a partially blocked dpf.

you will not notice any normal regenation as its controlled by the ECU in simple terms it causes the engine to run hotter thus burning off the soot in the dpf.
the sensor controls when to tell the ecu to do this.

you will need to reset the codes after changing the sensor then the engine light should go out and hopefully stay out.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Thanks @Phill D, I will have a look over the weekend and report back. What is the part I showed in the photo with the wire going to it? Another sensor?

 

[Phill D]

Thanks @Phill D, I will have a look over the weekend and report back. What is the part I showed in the photo with the wire going to it? Another sensor?

simple answer is yes but thats not part of the dpf sensor circuitry.

looking at the picture again the exhaust mounting looks like those used on the FIAT Ducato..

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[OldAgeTravellers]

simple answer is yes but thats not part of the dpf sensor circuitry.

looking at the picture again the exhaust mounting looks like those used on the FIAT Ducato..

Sorry Phill, yes mine is a Ducato 150 I only mentioned Iveco as I thought they used similar parts in many cases. The nearest Fiat place is over 40km away and don't have a spares department. I will follow the metal tubes back to find the sensor you mention above. Unfortunately I brought my wife home from hospital yesterday after a stroke so I will have limited time to look at the van for a while. She is OK but very weak, luckily.
Thanks. for your help.
Steve

 

[Phill D]

Sorry Phill, yes mine is a Ducato 150 I only mentioned Iveco as I thought they used similar parts in many cases. The nearest Fiat place is over 40km away and don't have a spares department. I will follow the metal tubes back to find the sensor you mention above. Unfortunately I brought my wife home from hospital yesterday after a stroke so I will have limited time to look at the van for a while. She is OK but very weak, luckily.
Thanks. for your help.
Steve

sorry to hear that hope she gets well soon. she is more important than a DPF sensor thats for sure..
Iveco as you say use many parts the same.
on my Ducato the sensor is on the right chassis member below the drivers door forward of the DPF itself, 2 pipes go into 2 short flexi pies into the bottom of the sensor unit. its 2 pipe clips, 2 nuts and an electrical connector. basically thats it. except for reseting the ECU codes.

good luck, take care..

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi @Phill D,
Found the sensor, it's a Kavleco PE604-5015-1 I think the Fiat Number is 552103040 and looking online at BuyCarParts.co.uk they have the correct Engine Code of F1AE3481E with a price of £116. They are also showing an equivalent IVECO number of 504102810 which shows a price of £119.
Is this the sort of price to expect?
I am in the South of France so will probably be much more expensive here.
Steve
p.s. Presumably there is no way of checking it, just change and hope for the best I presume.

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[Phill D]

hi @Old age travellers best price i have seen for one was from a german site at 85 euros. but £115 is about the going rate for a genuine replacement

i had to have a sensor changed in central France a few years back cost me 500 Euro's for the 20 minute job. no choice at the time . it failed 2 years later again hence i became a little obsessive about knowing how to change it.

I would change it and get a garage to reset the ECU codes that bit should cost you around £40 for a plug in and press a few keys

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Thanks @Phill D,
Ouch that must have been painful. I will try the Iveco place and see what price they are, if not order it online. As I am general cook, bottle washer and nurse at the moment I have a couple of weeks to get one but I will look at ebay.de and see what they have. They are usually cheaper postage than the UK.
I have an OBDII Scanner so I can reset the codes myself.
Thanks for the help
Steve

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi @Phill D ,
Sorry, just found the one from the supplier you put a picture of earlier, they are only £36 so I presume a Chinese copy. Is this just a picture you found online or one that you have actually used. A lot of difference between £36 and £120. I did find one in Germany for €65 but that looked like a copy as well.
Steve

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[Phill D]

it was a library pick to show you the item...


i split 1 open to have a look and its nothing highly technical. might be worth a punt for £36 as long as its a direct replacement.

 

[gus-lopez]

I am in the South of France so will probably be much more expensive here.

You could have a look on Link Removed who have a French online outlet. Cheapest I can usually find here in spain using spanish site. Or it is autodoc .de who are german based & have online sites for most of the EU .Otherwise it would be dirct from UK if a guaranteed fiat/iveco part

Sorry to hear of your wife's illness & hope she is soon on the road to recovery.

 

[Deneb]

When you disconnect the sensor, check for any water in the two pipes that connect to it. If you find any, blow the pipes through with compressed air and dry off the sensor somewhere warm and dry. You may find it will work again when reconnected. If not, it will need replacing but the water issue is not uncommon.

Wishing your wife a speedy recovery also!

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[Lenny HB]

Sorry to here about Judy Steve, wishing her all the best.

 

[Phill D]

When you disconnect the sensor, check for any water in the two pipes that connect to it. If you find any, blow the pipes through with compressed air and dry off the sensor somewhere warm and dry. You may find it will work again when reconnected. If not, it will need replacing but the water issue is not uncommon.

Wishing your wife a speedy recovery also!

agree water / condensation is the main culprit and needs clearing out.

 

[nomade690]

Which OBD scanner is best for the Ducato 2.3 150bhp and where is best to obtain one?

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[Phill D]

a generic OBD scanner will give you limited access and ability to correct / remove fault codes. but it mainly depends on how much you want to be able to do and spend up front.

the best low cost generic i found was " easy OBD2" google it.. but
after trying 2 different OBD scanners i invested in this software its dedicated FIAT
http://www.multiecuscan.net/ multiecuscan update 4.4 just out but you will need to buy the correct OBD connectors for your van.

 

[Deneb]

but you will need to buy the correct OBD connectors for your van.

Or if you intend to use it regularly, buy the multiplexed version which saves having a spaghetti bowl of cables and having to keep swapping them about. That must be annoying if you're doing a complete systems scan for fault codes!

I bought mine direct from Yani - considerably cheaper than Gendan or other distributors Edit: If you can get it before Brexit of course - there may be customs charges after

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Sorry to here about Judy Steve, wishing her all the best.

Thanks Lenny and everybody else for your good wishes for Judy, she had a number of TIA's which are small strokes, but the French Pompiers arrived very quickly and got her to hospital 40km away where she was seen immediately and kept in for a week in intensive care where she had countless scans and constant monitoring. They say there is no permanent damage thankfully but quite a wake-up call.
Steve

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[OldAgeTravellers]

Well after two 80km round trips to Narbonne and back, I have a new sensor in my hands.
The first trip Iveco "Computer says No go to Fiat" at fiat with the actual Fiat number "Computer says come back when the boss is here".
So last ditch tried AD which is a car parts distribution company a bit like Unipart I suppose. He looked up the same Fiat number and said "Yes but it is obsolete, there is an alternative though" (all in French of course". I questioned him a number of times that it was a direct replacement then paid the €72 for him to order it. As promised he telephoned at 11am this morning and we went over to collect it (after two hour lunch of course).
Here it is on the right. The electrical socket looks identical .
So I will report back if it does the job. It has just started raining, first time in weeks so it may have to be tomorrow.
I have a bluetooth OBD2 dongle and the Torque Pro app which seems to clear codes OK. And I will blow out the pipes in case there is condensation in them. Any other suggestions?
Steve

 

[Phill D]

i nam aware there is a new version out but could not find my notes with the part number..... i have not needed it yet!!! ok,, thats it mine will go next week now

they are marked but just be double sure that the pipes are correct way round, when you are upside down laying on your back...looking at it its easy to forget left from right

and as you say ensure there are no obstructions in the pipes, ( suck, blow ) and generally clear the pipes. and quick check that the electrical connections are clean.

good luck, i am sure it will work wonders...

 

[nomade690]

Thanks to Phill D and Deneb for the OBD scanner responses. Following your replies, I will do more research and let you know the result.

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[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi All,
So.... Yesterday was fine and I fitted the new model sensor, which required making a new bracket. Blew down the pipes with a compressor.
All connected up I looked at the fault codes and P2002 &P2454 in red had changed to Pending Faults in yellow P2002 Powertrain - Particulate Trap Efficiency Below Threashold bank 1 and P2452 Powertrain - Diesel Particulate Filter Differential Pressure Sensor Circuit.
So I thought it needs to trigger a Regen so i took it on the motorway which requires a 20km drive to the motorway then a 25 minute drive keeping in low gear so as to keep the revs at 3000rpm which cost €5 toll. Result same codes come back instantly.
So is the new sensor faulty or wrong. Is my DPM B*****ED. Really have no idea what to do next, but the clock is ticking till my two month retest date expires.
Any Ideas???
Steve

 

[Deneb]

P2452 still indicates an issue with the DPF sensor circuit, however:

I'm not sure what diagnostic equipment you are using - is it MultiEcuScan or similar dealer level software, or a basic OBD scanner?

When the sensor has been replaced, you are supposed to recalibrate the sensor parameters in the engine control module. You need to connect to the ECM with MultiEcuScan, FiCOM, Fiat Witech, Examiner or similar and execute the DPF sensor replacement function to reset the system.

This may clear the codes. If not, you may still have a sensor issue but until the system has been reset you won't know. The diagnostic software can also show various parameters for the DPF system to help troubleshoot any remaining problems. Driving to try and force a regen is pointless as the system won't attempt one with faults present. You need to clear the faults first, and good diagnostic software can then give you indications of the state of the DPF.

It may be that the reset is all you need.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

P2452 still indicates an issue with the DPF sensor circuit, however:

I'm not sure what diagnostic equipment you are using - is it MultiEcuScan or similar dealer level software, or a basic OBD scanner?

When the sensor has been replaced, you are supposed to recalibrate the sensor parameters in the engine control module. You need to connect to the ECM with MultiEcuScan, FiCOM, Fiat Witech, Examiner or similar and execute the DPF sensor replacement function to reset the system.

This may clear the codes. If not, you may still have a sensor issue but until the system has been reset you won't know. The diagnostic software can also show various parameters for the DPF system to help troubleshoot any remaining problems. Driving to try and force a regen is pointless as the system won't attempt one with faults present. You need to clear the faults first, and good diagnostic software can then give you indications of the state of the DPF.

It may be that the reset is all you need.

That is obviously the problem I have a BlueTooth OBD transmitter and the Torque App on my phone I don't know whether it can do what you suggest, I doubt it. So it will probably have to be a very expensive visit to a Fiat garage who couldn't even identify the Sensor from it's Fiat part number when we went there.
Oh Dear
Steve

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[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi @Deneb,
Well it looks as if I might be lucky, I downloaded the Free version of MultiEcuScan from their website and tried it with my Bluetooth OBDII connector Which is a Chinese ELM327 and it says it is connected and has done a scan of the Box and found the various interfaces.
But that seems to be all the free version can do.
I presume the £50 version will do all I need on the Ducato
Steve

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

So.... I coughed up the €50 to buy the MultiEcuScan licence and went through it all and it appears that my DPF is not full as I feared it would be and possibly I didn't need to buy a new differential sensor as it is reading open circuit so there is probably a break in the cable somewhere or the other end of the cable if there is a plug may have a dry joint.
I really wish I had known this software was available and my OBDII unit was compatible as although there is no service indicator it is all recorded in the ECU and I should have been filling in my service dates etc. Especially with the DPF which has number of regeneration's since oil change etc.
So any thoughts? Put the old Differential Pressure sensor back and look for the cable problem perhaps.
The most strange thing is it will switch lights and warnings on so I tried the "DPF Re-Gen Light" and it put a message across the Speedo saying "Regen in Progress do not stop engine" which I have never seen but it says it has done 7 re-gen's in it's 7 year life. Also the Km reading in the ECU is different to that shown on the speedo which is a bit strange?
So any advice on using this powerful tool or a good resource for learning about it?
Thanks for all the help so far.
Steve

 

[Deneb]

Sounds like you are doing OK. You can see now that although a fault code will give you an indication of the area in which a fault exists, itt can still be caused by different reasons and the information you can retrieve from the vehicle with the right tool can help you track it down.
Actuations allow you to test various lamps and system operations which can help to eliminate or point towards a likely issue, e.g. whether a fault is caused by a switch or the ECU not responding to the switch signal for instance.
The regen message you have tested is a message of last resort. You should never see it if the DPF is regenerating normally, but if it becomes clogged beyond a certain point and "normal" regens (which are not notified to the driver as a matter of course) have not completed for some reason, the vehicle will display the warning when a subsequent regent is in progress to warn you that it really needs to complete it's cycle to prevent the DPF becoming more critically clogged.
Km reading is taken from a different input to the Speedo and more accurate, but there could also be a small discrepancy if delivery mileage was reset to zero before delivery to the first owner.
There is a help file for MES that can be downloaded from the website. It explains how the software works, but not how to complete various procedures. Bear in mind it covers a lot of vehicles, Fiat, Alfa, Jeep etc. so cannot go into individual model details in any depth. It is a very powerful piece of software, in some ways capable of doing things which the Fiat dealer software cannot do, but that also means you could get into a lot of trouble if you were to attempt programming or reconfiguring systems without knowing what you are doing and why.
Stick to the service functions such as resetting the service message and oil change counter and it will have paid for itself with a single oil change compared to dealer charges. Other recalibration and reset functions should only be used in specific circumstances such as notifying the ECM that you have fitted a new DPF sensor.
You can run MES in simulation mode without connecting to a vehicle, simulate connecting to the various systems and explore the functions available. There is usually some brief explanatory text displayed for functions selected that can help guide you.
MES doesn't always tell you, but after carrying out any calibration or reset procedures you should turn off the ignition, remove the key and shut all doors for a couple of minutes to allow the ECUs to power down and reset with the new configuration.

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[Bognor Saint]

Update.
Picked up van from dealer today. They had to send it to Fiat. The problem was the dpf differential pressure sensor. Some of you have posted pictures of the exact item.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

So.. Spent most of the day on my back under the van trying to find the problem and it is definitely a break in one of the three wires going to the D.P.F. differential pressure sensor. So probably didn't need to buy a new sensor, but I now have a spare if I ever need it . By making a better bracket for the new sensor and clamping the cable properly as it should have been in the first place I have managed to clear the fault code probably enough to get the retest for the CT (MOT). OK it is obviously not ideal because it will inevitably shake and disconnect again but it gives me time to source the parts perhaps.
Does anybody know 1:what these connectors below are called, 2:if they are available and 3:if they are rewire-able without special tools. I suspect that the break will be just inside the plug but it is not easy to investigate closely while laying on your back reaching op into a space about a foot square not quite big enough to both hands in and see at the same time.
It is a shame that @Antony Powell who commented on page 5 and seemed very knowledgeable hasn't paid his fee and joined this great forum. I am sure he would have eventually got some benefit rather than just input.

 

[Deneb]

Does anybody know 1:what these connectors below are called, 2:if they are available and 3:if they are rewire-able without special tools. I suspect that the break will be just inside the plug but it is not easy to investigate closely while laying on your back reaching op into a space about a foot square not quite big enough to both hands in and see at the same time.

Answered out of order but:

1. No idea what they are called, other than being proprietary automotive connectors. Googling images of automotive connectors or manufacturers catalogues might identify it.

3. There is sometimes a way in, since it is "simply" reversing the way it was assembled! They all differ though, but careful examination might reveal a method of removing the inner section containing the wiring and contacts from the body. There is often a hidden tang or clip that needs pressure from a small probe such as a very small electricians or jewellers screwdriver blade. Similarly with the terminals; they normally have a sprung tab on the back of the terminal which engages on a step in the plug moulding as the terminal is inserted, preventing it pulling back. Getting a very thin blade up the back of the terminal from the plug end and releasing the tab allows it to be reversed out, often a much easier described than achieved! You're unlikely to achieve any of this without cutting the plug from the loom though, due to access and ability to see what you are looking for. On some of these connectors though (of which this might be one example) the wiring is enclosed in a moulding during production to (attempt!) to make them waterproof, and I don't think they can be easily dismantled, but:

2. Many of the wiring connectors are apparently available from Fiat, but you'd still have the problem of swapping out or remaking the wiring connections. I haven't been able to locate a part number, but it is referenced in the wiring diagrams as connector K187. Searching suggests that this may be a common connector for the DPF sensor amongst a range of different Fiat vehicles.

So, a few possibilities.

I wouldn't be so sure that the wire is broken inside the connector. There might be a break or resistance in the cable due to moisture entry. Even a pin hole break in the outer cable sheathing can have a disastrous effect over time.

Check the terminals on the connectors carefully, corrosion again due to water ingress is not uncommon despite many of these connector designs supposedly being waterproof, and a high resistance can cause the same symptoms as a broken cable. Also check that the terminals haven't been misshapen during (dis)connection, also resulting in poor contact. These problems can sometimes be solved by reshaping the terminals with a small screwdriver blade as above, or carefully abrading and cleaning the terminals with an electrical contact cleaner.

If you are certain that the interruption is in the connector or wiring very close to it, there are a couple of possibilities. First, check if a repair kit is available from Fiat. I know there is one available for the connector at the other end of the sensor loom, within the engine bay. That consists of a new pre-wired plug. The old plug has to be cut from the loom and the new cables spliced in. The cables on the replacement plug are often all the same colour (e.g. white) just to confuse matters further, so you need to make a careful note of which colour cables go to which terminals on your existing connector before replacing it.

Finally, the other option would be to source the connector and length of wiring from another (scrapped) vehicle and splice it in as described.

Edit: Just to add - as a preventative measure, it is worth giving as many of these electrical connectors as you can, both underbody and within the engine bay, a liberal dose of "damp start" type aerosol spray at least once a year, to ward off or prevent moisture ingress problems. The type of spray you need is the one that coats everything in a plasticised film that sets, not the WD40 or similar type which are simply a water dispersant and don't provide any ongoing protection. The connectors at the front of the engine behind the radiator grille, and those behind the left headlamp; under the fusebox and in that area, seem to be particularly at risk of moisture damage. Their design has been improved on newer vans, but I have still heard of issues.

Good luck!

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