Supermarket fuel (1 Viewer)

geoff1947

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A very interesting letter on Page 20 of June MMM written by Ken Dugan who worked in fuel distribution.
Certainly opened my eyes to the varying quality of diesel sold at Supermarkets and Petrol Stations.
I also look at www.petrolprices.com for cheap fuel in my area but am now torn between cheap diesel at supermarkets or more expensive but probably much better diesel on the forecourt. Mind its only a few pence dearer but if its better for my engine I think I will change my supplier..:Doh:
 
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A very interesting letter on Page 20 of June MMM written by Ken Dugan who worked in fuel distribution.
Certainly opened my eyes to the varying quality of diesel sold at Supermarkets and Petrol Stations.
I also look at www.petrolprices.com for cheap fuel in my area but am now torn between cheap diesel at supermarkets or more expensive but probably much better diesel on the forecourt. Mind its only a few pence dearer but if its better for my engine I think I will change my supplier..:Doh:
Wouldn't waste my money to read it let alone paying over the odds for my fuel. Asda £113 litre today. I have been using supermarket fuel for many years with a number of vehicles doing 100000 miles of trouble free motoring in each. How could I not be cynical about an article like this?:restmycase:
 

pappajohn

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we all want cheaper fuel Doug but as you say, the quality can be very different.

when you think about it, to fill a 70ltr tank will cost £1.40 more at a 2p per ltr higher cost than at the supermarket forecourt...thats only a little more than 1ltr...or around 6 miles in an average motorhome.

i made the mistake of driving an 18mile round trip to save 3p per ltr (cheaper garage than the supermarkets around here)....the round trip cost me around 5ltrs in my car (15mpg) so no saving there. :Doh:

the penny didnt drop until i got home :Blush:

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I have been using supermarket fuel for many years with a number of vehicles doing 100000 miles of trouble free motoring in each. How could I not be cynical about an article like this?

Having not read the article, I'm not going to comment about it directly, but I am going to make a similar point.

I did over 330,000 miles in my Citroen AX and currently 85,000 in the C3 that replaced it. The former averaged around 70 mpg, the latter is averaging about 60 mpg. Neither has ever suffered issues to do with fuel, and both were filled with supermarket diesel the vast majority of the time (I can't remember the last time I put non-supermarket in the C3, which passed its MOT on Monday....phew).
 
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Having not read the article, I'm not going to comment about it directly, but I am going to make a similar point.

I did over 330,000 miles in my Citroen AX and currently 85,000 in the C3 that replaced it. The former averaged around 70 mpg, the latter is averaging about 60 mpg. Neither has ever suffered issues to do with fuel, and both were filled with supermarket diesel the vast majority of the time (I can't remember the last time I put non-supermarket in the C3, which passed its MOT on Monday....phew).

It is very difficult to argue the real facts. Use Asda fuel @ £113 and save yourself a fortune.:thumb:
 
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TomTee

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Which Magazine recently did an exhaustive test on fuel and concluded that there was no disadvantage in buying supermarket fuel.

Supermarkets buy their fuel from the same refineries as independents and others. I alternate between an Esso independent and Tesco, depending on which direction I'm going that day, and can tell no difference in mpg or performance.

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Lincolnshire Rover

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In the dark ages when I used to go to work ( happily retired thank god ) an engineer in the workshop used to be a diesel pump engineer for the Parkinsons Group and he said that you could always tell a pump used with supermarket diesel because it was all black inside and the seals were always dry he said if you use supermarket diesel then every now and again put a litre of cheap cooking oil in you fuel tank this would help replace the oils removed when the diesel was refined and help lubricate the pump.
 
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In the dark ages when I used to go to work ( happily retired thank god ) an engineer in the workshop used to be a diesel pump engineer for the Parkinsons Group and he said that you could always tell a pump used with supermarket diesel because it was all black inside and the seals were always dry he said if you use supermarket diesel then every now and again put a litre of cheap cooking oil in you fuel tank this would help replace the oils removed when the diesel was refined and help lubricate the pump.

Probably the days when putting a gallon of petrol in with your tank of diesel was thought beneficial:Smile:
 

lebesset

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I know mercedes put 0.5 % two stroke oil in the test vehicles when they are running in countries with poor quality diesel
it is said to improve the consumption a fraction , but I am dubious about that !
point is , the sulphur used to provide lubrication for the pump etc

if you want to try this , any grade of 2T will do unless you have a particulate filter , but there is a special grade of 2T for that

side benefit is reputed to be you get a softer detonation , hence quieter engine

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Braunston

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Hi,

What I always find questionable when this subject is raised is why if the fuels are different in this very competitive market don't the major players make it clear in their advertising campaigns that their fuel is better because of ???? the additives or other such ingredients that they put in theirs that's not put in others.

I can only conclude that the lack of advertisement suggests that there is very little if any difference.
 

Road Runner

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Every new vehicle I have had never been warned off supermarket fuel.

Wonder why?
 

dunny

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Wouldn't waste my money to read it let alone paying over the odds for my fuel. Asda £113 litre today. I have been using supermarket fuel for many years with a number of vehicles doing 100000 miles of trouble free motoring in each. How could I not be cynical about an article like this?:restmycase:
hi buttons
£113 litre your lucky £123 bp near me:cry::Mad::Mad::cry:

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derekfaeberwick

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When you're filling a big truck you can see what's going in and I can assure you that there are BIG differences in diesel.

Pay a bit extra if needs be to get Shell, it's easily the cleanest.
 

alan wilson

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Wouldn't waste my money to read it let alone paying over the odds for my fuel. Asda £113 litre today. I have been using supermarket fuel for many years with a number of vehicles doing 100000 miles of trouble free motoring in each. How could I not be cynical about an article like this?:restmycase:
Having worked in the fuel industry for 33 years before taking early retirement i can tell you that there is a total difference between supermarket and leading brand petrol and deisel, the best to use is B.P. OR SHELL you get far better m.p.g out of both of these .The only way to tell is to brim your tank use it brim again and work the figures out. If you have only run on supermarket fuel you will not notice any difference for a couple of tanks ,the reason is the better quality fuel has to burn all the soot out of your system first before it will work. You will notice that one it runs smoother ,quieter,and feels more responsive,the engine is cleaner .I had in the past because with mine and the wifes cars doing over 500 miles a week each used supermarket fuel when the 5p litre offers was on after 11/2 tanks the cars started to feel less responsive and sluggish and working out the fuel consumptions averaged 5 to 7 mpg less on a toyota yaris diesel and 4 to 5mpg on my 607 diesel,as soon as i switched back within 1/2 tank it was back to normal.
also the branded fuels B.P AND SHELL THAT IS ALL I CAN SPEAK OF have extra additives to clean the fuel systems and to keep the seals ,rubbers fuel pumps etc lubricated
 

adenough

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So it's coming out of different tanks at the refinery then? Sounds an expensive way of storing fuel. I thought s/markets bought it on the spot market.

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derekfaeberwick

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A firm I worked for used Shell for years but succumbed to using Key Fuels instead. Within days the Iveco Stralis's sat up with 'Fuel Filter' warnings on.


He didn't believe us but had to believe the warning lights on 8 or 9 motors., says it all really.



p.s. Not a friend of a friend myth, I was there.
 

VMax666

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So it's coming out of different tanks at the refinery then? Sounds an expensive way of storing fuel. I thought s/markets bought it on the spot market.
No, the base fuel comes out of the same tank at the refinery but there are different additives added at the point where the tankers are filled. This why people see different tankers filling at the same point and assume it must be the same fuel for everyone. I can assure you if you run a performance engine there is a world of difference between supermarket fuel and say Shell V-Power. VMax
 
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TomTee

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No, the base fuel comes out of the same tank at the refinery but there are different additives added at the point where the tankers are filled. This why people see different tankers filling at the same point and assume it must be the same fuel for everyone. I can assure you if you run a performance engine there is a world of difference between supermarket fuel and say Shell V-Power. VMax

Of course there's a difference between Shell V-Power and supermarket fuel. It's the same difference that's between Shell V-Power and Shell basic 95 octane! V-Power is a premium and very expensive petrol for high performance cars.

Where is the hard evidence that supermarket fuel is inferior? I can't believe that some enterprising journalist hasn't researched this subject and exposed these terrible supermarkets for selling an inferior product.

There is no hard evidence whatsoever that supermarket fuel is inferior or different, it's all anecdotal by someone whose mate is a tanker driver - as if he'd know anyway!

The only hard evidence that I've seen is by 'Which' magazine, which conducted a fully monitored and exhaustive study of the effects of various brands of fuel and concluded that there is no reason whatsoever why you shouldn't buy your petrol or diesel from the supermarkets.

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welsh winger

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I own 3 vehicles, the motor home, a R reg ford escort, and a 1500 Honda goldwing, they all without a doubt run better on the named brand fuel, Fine cant prove a word of it, other than the van smokes badly on start up when supermarket fuel is use and is useless on hills, Shell on the other hand nothing, the escort looses power and sputters on super market fuel, Shell again nothing, the bike is the same and more noticeable of the 3 vehicles.

This is not a advert for shell, they just happen to have a petrol station half a mile from my house.

My son runs a 2.0 MR2 turbo, put super market fuel in it and it coughs and sputters, shell or dare I say it tesco super unleaded, and hold on to you hat.

what does all this prove?

Simples, you get what you pay for.

Not scientific in any way, just my personal finding.

Nick
 

American Dream

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I own 3 vehicles, the motor home, a R reg ford escort, and a 1500 Honda goldwing, they all without a doubt run better on the named brand fuel, Fine cant prove a word of it, other than the van smokes badly on start up when supermarket fuel is use and is useless on hills, Shell on the other hand nothing, the escort looses power and sputters on super market fuel, Shell again nothing, the bike is the same and more noticeable of the 3 vehicles.

This is not a advert for shell, they just happen to have a petrol station half a mile from my house.

My son runs a 2.0 MR2 turbo, put super market fuel in it and it coughs and sputters, shell or dare I say it tesco super unleaded, and hold on to you hat.

what does all this prove?


Simples, you get what you pay for.


Not scientific in any way, just my personal finding.

Nick

Hi Nick,

Same here....

On BP fuel the motorhomes fine.....

Have to add octane booster to Supermarket fuel for her to pull and run cleanly which somewhat negates the cost saving of using Supermarket fuel....:cry:

Just my personal finding too.:thumb:

Steve.
 
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TomTee

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A scientific test!

It's all in your minds guys!

http://www.carpages.co.uk/news/fuel-performance-07-01-10.asp

The report concludes:

AA president Edmund King added: "There is often sniping at the quality of supermarket fuel compared to that from non-supermarket retailers, even though fuel for both has to meet the same British Standard. Whoever tries to rubbish supermarket fuel should take a look at this and try to explain the inconsistencies, or carry out open and scientifically-sound bench tests to prove their point."
 

madbluemad

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Thats BP in the dog house again. Seriousley though, on the face of it, it looks like a good report.
Jim
:Smile:
 

derekfaeberwick

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As I said earlier, when filling a truck up you can easily see into the tank and when using bunker points for fuel it has black scum in it as often as not.

Most Morrisons Supermarkets are on the Keyfuels bunker register.:restmycase:

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lebesset

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well , all the fuel has to meet uk and eu standards as we all know
but refined fuel varies all the time , the raw material is not of a fixed quality
so the oil companies blend it so that it meets the required standard , and what they do varies according to what is needed

so one tankful of a particular brand will be different from another ...so running vehicle tests is a complete waste of time , the results will not be consistent [ if you want to be technical ,the n. american method of averaging RON and MON results is far superior as it lessens the ability of the oil companies to trick up the fuel to meet the regs. without regard to the efficacity of the product ,which is common in the RON method ; so RON/MON gives a more consistent product ]
clearly the higher octane premium products give better performance , but only provided the vehicle is designed to take advantage of this .... eg my 5cyl 20v audi appreciates it because it constantly adjusts the ignition up to the point of pre-ignition ..problem is it then costs more/mile due to the on-cost being more than the increased efficiency merits
so with petrol engines , it all depends what sort of engine it is

diesel is , of course , another matter ; this guy sums it up succinctly [imho as a former industrial chemist ]

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-10/973012182.Ch.r.html

problem is that modern regulations have reduced the sulphur in our diesel , and at the same time reduced it's lubricity ..consequently component life ! so I personally have adopted the mercedes-benz system of adding 0.5 % 2T ; not having a particulates filter , any grade does the job , with an on-cost of 0.5/1p per litre ; if you want to do this with the particulates filter you must use a so called ashless 2T

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as you can see work has been done on the effects of additives [ including 2T ] in low sulphur diesel , even where the lubrication is supposed to have been improved to replace the sulphur ] ; wear reduction is quite noticeable

of course , running 25% biodiesel has been shown to obviate the necessity of additives due to it's improved lubricity ; I have tried 50% in my 2.8idTD fiat and it ran beautifully ; only thing you have to watch out for is that when you begin it cleans all the deposits off the fuel system including the pump , and it will end up in the fuel filter .....a couple of thousand miles and that will need changing

a number of heavy truck manufacturers now approve heavy concentrations of bio-diesel in their recent vehicles ...why not for us ?

my conclusion ? buy the cheapest fuel you can , you won't get enough extra bang for your buck to spend more unless it is for a particular type of engine
 

American Dream

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It's all in your minds guys!

http://www.carpages.co.uk/news/fuel-performance-07-01-10.asp

The report concludes:

AA president Edmund King added: "There is often sniping at the quality of supermarket fuel compared to that from non-supermarket retailers, even though fuel for both has to meet the same British Standard. Whoever tries to rubbish supermarket fuel should take a look at this and try to explain the inconsistencies, or carry out open and scientifically-sound bench tests to prove their point."

Just wish my motors knew that....:RollEyes:

With changing octane ratings and the demise of leaded fuels, it presents a challenge to say the least, for those of us running older classic motors built to run on the fuels developed at the time.....

Changing compression ratios on vehicle engines, fuel emission regulations and appendages / management systems all have a part to play in this...

Easier to remap an ECU that change an engines characteristics than totally rebuild a conventional carburation/electronic ignition engines to run on it.

Yes....on later motors there MAY not be a perceivable difference but try running a v8 normally aspirated engine on supermarket premium unleaded and you do notice it...

A few gallons of BP or some octane booster works for mine.:thumb:
 

lebesset

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you have a motor designed for american fuel ; this , of course , has to meet the RON/MON standard which is higher and more consistant that the RON standards
so no doubt your engine DOES appreciate the best available in europe , even if it is not always what it seems

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I think this is a reasonable summation of the position

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American Dream

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But I suspect even the fuels over there have been subjected to having less additives......and a lower octane/RON Rating.

Both my classic motors have high compression carburated engines....

One American and one British.....

The fuel change, I suspect, Is worldwide....

At the end of the day a viable alternative fuel needs to be found, although it isn't in the interest of the current fossil fuel providers to promote this....With allegations from various parties that the technology has been around for some years but being kept under wraps....
 

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