NCC Verified Battery Scheme Latest (1 Viewer)

[PhilandMena]

A conversation I have just had with Tanya batteries. Funny or what. Sorry for the length, its the way they publish responses on their website.
Philip Tew
This battery is rated at 500 cycles which is extraordinary for a lead acid battery.
However, the D.O.D. is not specified. Can you tell me what the D.O.D. is please.
Thanks in advance,
Philip.
Fri 22nd June 2018, 08:49Joe Lewis
Dear Philip Tew,

Thank you for your enquiry.

This would be at 50% D.O.D

Many thanks,
Joe
Fri 22nd June 2018, 09:23Philip Tew
Thanks for this! Amazing specification for a lead acid battery. Yet according to the NCC Verified battery scheme list the Numax 31MF is only rated at 220 Cycles. Is the one your selling a different battery and if so can you provide me with the Numax code. Thanks in advance.
Fri 22nd June 2018, 09:53Kai Latham
Dear Philip Tew,

Thank you for your response.

If my memory serves me correct this is a NCC class B rated battery which has between 150-350 cycles available at a 50% discharge rate.

It is an official Numax product direct from the manufacturer which would not differ from any other unit.

Many thanks,
Kai
Fri 22nd June 2018, 09:56Philip Tew
I'm a little confused at your response. In essence are these two different batteries as your site claims 500 cycles and the NCC list is stating 230 cycles.
Thanks again,
Philip
Fri 22nd June 2018, 10:04Kai Latham
Dear Philip Tew,

Thank you for your response.

The 500 cycle rate is a maximum cycle availability, the NCC usually state a class rather than an exact number of cycles because it is near impossible to calculate.

Many thanks,
Kai
Fri 22nd June 2018, 10:07Philip Tew
Kai, That's not correct ! The NCC list states number of cycles and class for all the batteries on their list. Where did you get the 500 cycles from on your web page ?
Fri 22nd June 2018, 10:15Joe Lewis
Dear Philip Tew,

Thank you for your response.

We have the information given to us via the manufacturer after they've performed their tests.

At 50% D.O.D the XV31MF can achieve 500 cycles hence why they are a very popular unit.

The NCC listing is merely somebodies opinion based on whatever information they find.

The information we provide is solid data provided by the manufacturer.

Many thanks,
Joe
Add A Response
Thanks for that Joe. So, the NCC list is just someones opinion which may be misleading many customers into purchasing a leisure battery based on false information.
Smacks of Rip of Britten to me.
Regards,
Philip.

 

[PhilandMena]

Final response from Tanya batteries. Makes you feel for customers who are seeking accurate information about Leisure batteries.

Joe Lewis
Dear Philip Tew,

Thank you for your response.

Take for example the below battery -

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/exide/es900/

This is an utter monster in the leisure battery world, but they only rate it as C.

Thank you for your time and understanding.

Have a great weekend!

Many thanks,
Joe
Only problem with this statement is the Exide es900 battery is not listed in the NCC verification list. Confused or what !

 

[Lenny HB]

A

Final response from Tanya batteries. Makes you feel for customers who are seeking accurate information about Leisure batteries.

Joe Lewis
Dear Philip Tew,

Thank you for your response.

Take for example the below battery -

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/exide/es900/

This is an utter monster in the leisure battery world, but they only rate it as C.

Thank you for your time and understanding.

Have a great weekend!

Many thanks,
Joe
Only problem with this statement is the Exide es900 battery is not listed in the NCC verification list. Confused or what !

And the ES 900 is the same battery as the Sonnenschein SL75 which is what I use and recommend.

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[funflair]

A

And the ES 900 is the same battery as the Sonnenschein SL75 which is what I use and recommend.

They cant be exactly the same Lenny as the SL75 is 26.8kg and the ES900 is 28kg and the cases are different as well, as Sonnenschein are part of the EXIDE group I don't know why they continue to market the two ranges.

Martin

 

[Lenny HB]

They cant be exactly the same Lenny as the SL75 is 26.8kg and the ES900 is 28kg and the cases are different as well, as Sonnenschein are part of the EXIDE group I don't know why they continue to market the two ranges.

Martin

I've seen different weights quoted for both depends which info you look at. Seen the es900 listed by Exide at 26kg.
The Sonnenschein I have look identical to G80's I've had in the past and the G80 is supposed to be the same as a es900.
Doesn't really matter as the Sonnenschein perform just as well which is what counts.

Edit: I'll rephrase my statement:
For intents & purposes the Sonnenschein SL75 is almost identical to the Exide ES900 and will deliver a similar performance.

 

[Stealaway]

Hammering them like that they are probably well on their way out now , we find our leisure batteries no matter how much they cost or how we have looked after them are read for replacement by 3 years old.

You could be right but £200 every 3 + years sounds OK to me.
I'm not going to be governed by a set of batteries.
They need to do what I need them to do, to make my life enjoyable, whatever it costs

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[Blue Knight]

Absolutely nothing
It's hardly a national scandal that yet another so called trustworthy trade body are a bunch of money grabbing liars .

I agree fully and while I'm not expecting the subject of leisure batteries to appear in PMQs next week, I would certainly expect to see a fallout if the current petitioner was to follow through with a successul legal challenge.

 

[34127]

The more I read about batteries the more confused I am. If I am wanting 2 off batteries approx 120 Ah each then what should I buy.

 

[funflair]

The more I read about batteries the more confused I am. If I am wanting 2 off batteries approx 120 Ah each then what should I buy.

Well they need to fit the space for a start, your charging including solar should be compatible with whatever you fancy, how long are you keeping the van? then it might come down to what you want from them ie general off grid low draw or high draw inverter use, our EXIDE G80/ES900 are still going strong at least 8years down the line and running the inverter so guess what I would say, cheap no good and good no cheap.

Martin

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[Lenny HB]

The more I read about batteries the more confused I am. If I am wanting 2 off batteries approx 120 Ah each then what should I buy.

There are 3 main types, Flooded Cell they are conventional batteries, Gel where the acid is held in a Gel and there are spill proof and can be mounted on their side if needed, AGM, Advanced Glass Matt, these have the aid retained in a glass mat.
Although a lot of manufacturers are now fitting AGM's I wouldn't recommend them, their have been a lot of premature failures, mine lasted 18 months.

Gels give very long life 6-10 years, take longer to charge but can be discharged to a lower level. They are more expensive but I wouldn't use anything else. Your charger does need to be capable of charging Gels to get the best out of them.
An 80a/h gel will give more useable power than a 120 a/h flooded battery. If you go for Gel the most popular are the Exide ES900 (G80) or the Sonnenschein SL75.

If you want a flooded battery probably the best at the moment are the Varta LDF range available in various sizes. The LDF 90 (90 a/h) is the same size as the Gels I mentioned.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I wonder what will happen in terms of legal liability if it is found or inferred that many thousands of people have purchased NCC Approved batteries based on NCC ficticious tests.

That doesn't sound good to me.

Seeing as the NCC is a Micky mouse organisation that nobody takes seriously and their approvals even less seriously I can’t imagine anyone would buy anything based purely on it having their “approval”

 

[Stealaway]

As a further reference. If the battery sticker is not a recognized manufacturer - It may as well say Micky Mouse battery . You will have no idea what you are buying.

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[Basildog]

Seeing as the NCC is a Micky mouse organisation that nobody takes seriously and their approvals even less seriously I can’t imagine anyone would buy anything based purely on it having their “approval”

Unfortunately I think that many people do actually take notice of things like the NCC just as they listen to the experts at MMM and other publications, they also listen to the 2 main clubs

 

[Stealaway]

Sad but true

 

[Basildog]

I had to try really hard to keep a straight face and bite my tongue the other day as I was talking to a newly retired couple
They said " This is our first motorhome we have always had caravans before but the British vans have such poor build quality we are totally fed up as each new van we have had is worse than the last "
Ok nothing funny about that you say ?

This was standing next to their brand new Swift Bessacarr motorhome ?
Talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire !

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[Cheshirecat57]

Yeah,yeah more Brit bashing

 

[Lenny HB]

Yeah,yeah more Brit bashing

How is stating the truth Brit bashing?

I had to try really hard to keep a straight face and bite my tongue the other day as I was talking to a newly retired couple
They said " This is our first motorhome we have always had caravans before but the British vans have such poor build quality we are totally fed up as each new van we have had is worse than the last "
Ok nothing funny about that you say ?

This was standing next to their brand new Swift Bessacarr motorhome ?
Talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire !

We have had Brit caravans that leaked like sieves pleased to say we didn't make the same mistake when buying a Motorhome.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Its liked a scratched record ( 78 of course)

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[tacr2man]

There are those that do in all makes from what I have found , its a bit like the people who said Morris Marinas were rubbish . I ran a fleet of them , they performed extremely well and better mpg than Cortina, or vauxhall .

 

[Lenny HB]

Its liked a scratched record ( 78 of course)

Not when you have had British products with more water in them than the garden pond after my experience I would never even look at a British product. I've also worked in the industry so I know a bit about it.

 

[funflair]

We had a British built Autotrail caravan (VanRoyce) and the quality was spot on but it did cost twice as much as a Swift or Elddis.

And in those days I didn't worry one jot about batteries, a pair of mismatched rubbish lasted about a week.

Martin

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[CazPaul]

The van we just bought has a nice pair of 140ah gels on, lovely, I don't know how old they are but still working good, they will be replaced with the same when they die.

 

[Jim]

I wrote to the NCC on the 16th asking for clarification of this scheme but my email is as yet unanswered. I’ll let you know what they say if they ever get back to me.

The NCC, got back to me within a few days.



I wrote

Hi NCC

We have heard through a web source that your Verified Battery Scheme is not what it seems.

You state that "Battery verification comes via a comprehensive, industry-leading, testing process conducted by suitably certified and audited test houses”. Could you please confirm what test houses you use so we might verify your testing claims. If this is not possible might you supply some the test results so we can put our member's minds at rest that recommendations from the council are based on sound, independent testing as promised?

Kind regards

James Brown BEM
Writing for MotorhomeFun.co.uk
The Motorhome Support and Social Network

They Responded

Thank you for your enquiry about the NCC and its Verified Leisure Battery scheme. There follows some information for you about the scheme:

Background:

The NCC (National Caravan Council) is the trade body for the UK caravan industry comprising touring caravans, motorhomes, caravan holiday homes and residential park homes. It represents some 850+ member outlets.

The Verified Leisure Battery scheme was set up over two years ago because there was very little guidance for caravanners and motorhomers on how to match their requirements to the technical specification of a battery. The aim was to ensure that when people buy a new battery, they get a product that is suitable for their caravan or motorhome and that suits their lifestyle. In other words, it was to help consumers select a product that’s right for them, and to bring greater transparency to the leisure battery marketplace.

David Reid, NCC Technical Regulations & Project Manager, explains how the scheme operates:

“Each battery that is added to the scheme is supported by data from a test lab that is either accredited to ISO 17025 (which means that it is an externally audited and accredited testing laboratory) or audited by the NCC. Where batteries are relabelled the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) brand and model must be declared, so that the figures claimed in the test data can be checked against those given by the OEM.

“If a claim of overstated performance is received by the NCC, it would be investigated. If substantiated, we would take action to remove the battery from the scheme. (To date, no claims have been made which have been substantiated by available evidence.)

“We continue to carry out spot checks on batteries that are placed on the market, examining evidence from reputable sources that is presented to us, and we verify batteries on this basis. Please note that we do not give specific advice on the suitability of a particular battery for a given installation.”

If anyone has evidence of overstated performance or other critical failings by a product in the Scheme, they should contact the NCC.

I hope this information provides some clarity.

Louise Wood

 

[Blue Knight]

Very interesting indeed - well done Jim

That said, the whole NCC process still looks a bit dodgy to me.

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[Jim]

They didn't even address the question I asked; which was a little disappointing.

 

[Blue Knight]

They didn't even address the question I asked?

Yep, that's the dodgy bit

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Thats a press release not a reply.

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[tomm]

The NCC, got back to me within a few days.



I wrote


They Responded

So basically they didnt answer your 2 requests...

They didn't even address the question I asked?

You beat me to it , I was literally replying to your post , my asking where are the answers to your questions ? None the wiser as to who and where are the test houses, also nil test results....Note they did say NCC audit the test houses. Can that be deemed a judge and jury situation ?

 

[tacr2man]

You were right to put "They responded" as it certainly didnt answer any of your questions. Anyone would think the guy was a politician ! I'm surprised it wasn't signed by Alistair Cambell

 

[Stealaway]

As a further reference. If the battery sticker is not a recognized manufacturer - It may as well say Micky Mouse battery . You will have no idea what you are buying.

From Facebook

Lynda Dalglei Platinum just buy cheap batteries and relabel them, my other half worked for them, not for long lol

Have a look at the case's of the
Yuasa Battery -- link not working
Yuasa L35-115 Leisure Battery on amazon


and the

Halford battery - https://www.halfords.com/camping-le...ectrical-power/halfords-leisure-battery-115ah

Could they be the same battery with different stickers?

But the Yuasa could be worth a punt. Top named maker at £95 for 115Ah

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