de facto standard european gas thread (3 Viewers)

[lebesset]

there are often questions posed here enquiring about obtaining gas in continental europe ; the oft suggested solution is to spend a lot of money on special refillable bottles , with the statement that you can save money on gas to get the money back in the long term

however , unlike the UK where is a monopoly position and the prices reflecting this , in large portions of europe this is no longer the case

fortunately there is a de facto standard in much of the western side of the continent , and gas easily and fairly cheaply obtained

if you look at the calor 4.5Kg dumpy blue butane bottle you will find a left hand male thread ; this is widely used in europe and if you base your system on this you will need nothing else over a wide area
all bottles mentioned here use this thread ...so you can use an on bottle regulator if that is your system , or have pigtails to this thread for an on board regulator , available everywhere ; although there is now a euro standard of 30Mb , others are still being sold , and I personally use 27Mb , 30Mb ,35Mb and 50Mb , all of which work just fine !

FRANCE
port of entry for most people ; you can now obtain 10/9 Kg bottles for €16.45 paying €5 deposit on the first bottle [ just gone up from €1 !] the great advantage of this bottle is that it is only 300mm diameter , and 500mm high , so will normally fit into the british gas lockers designed for the calor 7/6 Kg bottles

Link Removed

energaz is an anglo[BP] /french partnership , looks like spreading everywhere in europe

butane and propane are identical bottle , and you can swop happily from one to the other ..there are over 1,000 points of sale in france alone ; so with 10Kg of lpg costing about €15 , it is virtually the same price

BELGIUM /NETHERLANDS

using same thread [ would be grateful to hear if there has been any change since I last need to use one of their bottles , my brother lives in belgium and says not , but.........

Cora supermarkets are advertising energas now , and I believe intermarche are also [ 80 stores ]

GERMANY

I never had any problem obtaining and screwing on a german bottle , 11Kg and the 6Kg sizes are the norm ...depends how long you are going to be there of course

ITALY

haven't been there for some years , so cannot comment except to say that wherever I went lpg pump operators had the adaptor for this standard thread and would fill that type of bottle ...couldn't fill other threads however ; I presume this has not changed

GREECE
everywhere I went I could get a standard thread bottle filled

SPAIN /portugal

all spanish bottles have the same fitment , and take the adaptor shown in picture 057
if you can take the standard 13/11Kg bottle , the travel down to the southwest of france [basically south of a line bordeaux/montpelier , although I know there is an agent in cognac ] and you will find repsol agents ; you pay for the gas , they give you for nothing the bottle 058 and the adaptor 057 ; wouldn't be surprised if they made a small charge now that energas have done so

you will notice that the handle on the bottle is slightly different to the spanish version in picture 053 , but is the same as sold in portugal ; this is not a problem [ except that the gas is the old french price ..double spanish , but it is only the once !] I have been swopping this type in spain for 10 years and never been refused ; I am informed that they go back to a spanish factory to be refilled anyway ; anyway , same fitment for butane/propane
if you can only get a small bottle in the locker you will have to wait until you get to spain , go to a repsol garage and get a 6Kg bottle [ butane only ] , €20 deposit so keep the receipt so you can get a refund on the empty when you leave spain ; if you need adaptor 057 the repsol agents sell them ; spanish prices ? less than lpg from the pump in big bottles , a little more for small ; portuguese ? a little higher than spain as I remember
incidentally , most cepsa agents will take a 'spanish' repsol bottle in against one of their lightweight bottles , don't know if they are swopable all over portugal though

MAROC

french brands , and butagaz looks the most popular ; so pop into an emmaus on your way through france , buy an empty for €5 or so , then you can just swop ...alan will no doubt be along and tell you what other brands are useful

so how to arrange your gas supplies ? well , if you are just going to france or nearby you can take one uk bottle and just get an energas as soon as you arrive ; if you are going to spain/portugal I suggest you just start out with a mini bottle so you can buy energas immediately you get to france , then add repsol for spain ; as you can see I use a camping gas with adaptor [ picture 053 ] which fits into an inside locker if I need 2 serious bottles , maybe a 4.5 Kg dumpy calor would do the job if you have more space than me ; incidentally a camping gas [ €10 in spain for a refill ] lasts me about 4 years ..very easy to get gas in spain/france if you haven't got a camping gaz bottle they also can be obtained at emmaus in france , so start off with a dumpy calor and ditch it later on !

anyhow , plenty of other places I haven't been to for a while so any other recent experience of this connection would be useful ; the gas factory outside budapest certainly fills standard thread ...or did 25 years ago

just a thought , for anyone who is new to this , gas bottles are dual weight ie a bottle that takes 13Kg of butane will take 11Kg of propane , 10/9 etc

 

[vwalan]

sorry to confuse but last winter i met three people with french bottles with a 20mm clipon regulater .i didnt have the fittings for filling .i do have two regulaters .
in uk now its just about impossible to find bottles with the old thread most use 21mm clip on.
i have for years adapted to the old thread so i can pick up cheap maroc regulaters .
repsol do an adapter spanish clip on to -camping gas ,i adapt it to the old butane thread.
cheers alan.

 

[lebesset]

looks like there was a problem uplifting the photo's
what french brands of 13Kg in maroc alan ?

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[vwalan]

lebesset, the dumpy bottles in uk are nearly all clipon.
in maroc butagas total altogas .all have the normal thread fitting.
some french bottles picked up and used in france 20mm clipon.
here i have super gas regulaters 20mm clip on .
bes. gas fitting place do 20mm clip on to normal thread .but i dont have one in the truck.
the problem was we were in portugal and they wanted to fill the bottles .
i portugal its about 21-23 euro to exchange a bottle . plus they had no spare room for another bottle.
also in maroc the bottles are so damaged if you trade a good french bottle you may have a problem when you return france .camping gas also .i say get a maroc bottle .
now in spain repsol and cepsa are offering plastic bottles in exchange for steel or the shiny ones. seem a bit bulky though.

 

[lebesset]

doesn't matter about french bottles in maroc , so cheap throw them away

why would you ever buy a bottle with a clip on regulator in europe , just get standard thread

 

[OwnedbyCollies]

We go to France for the first time in the MH next week and I am now worrying about the gas.

We have 2 x 6kg propane normally and are going for 3 weeks. My cunning plan involves taking 1 x 6 kg propane and buying a french cylinder when we arrive - keeping the propane for emergency use. If we are successful in getting it sorted we will keep the french cylinder for future trips.

I presume we will need a new pigtail for the french cylinder? Is it easy to buy all of the necessaries and would there be someone to give advice?? When we land in Calais where is the best place to go?

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[vwalan]

i always say keep room for a local bottle where ever you are going .
if you are going for 3 weeks and have two full bottles thats surely enough. you could get a propane bottle filling adapter off ebay .get the french adapter as well .then you can save money when home or away.
thats what i do. fill english bottles every where. rxcept spain andmaroc ,they are so cheap. you could search gas bottle filling there,s lots of discussion on here. cheers alan.

 

[lebesset]

owned by collies ....like alan I am equipped to fill my own bottles , have done so for 30 years

but most people are uncertain about doing this , hence getting local bottles is an alternative which is virtually as cheap , certainly cheaper than using calor gas !

obviously you have an on board regulator ; the pigtail for calor propane won't fit a standard european bottle , but everyone in the UK sells the pigtail for the dumpy 4.5Kg calor butane which , as you can see in the photo's, is actually to the european standard

so , as you suggest ,arrive in france with one bottle and go straight to the nearest energas seller [ eg , intermarche calais , address on the energas website ] and get a bottle of gas ...the energas bottle is the same height as your propane but is almost 300mm in diameter , so check that goes in before you leave home !

personally I would be going to france with my emergency camping gas system as in the photograph , then buying 2 energas !!!

unfortunately camping gas is such a crazy price in the uk it is not economic to do that unless you already have the bottle , although I know the adaptors to euro standard are available ;one of my friends did it by using a bottle he was willing to throw away in france as it was too big to put in an inside locker


if you only have a single pigtail system you will have to swop it over , but if you have a twin system you can swop one pigtail before you leave and just screw it onto the bottle

Link Removed gives a thousand or so points of sale in france for the intermarche group , there are others

personally , at this time of year I would buy butane , you get more bang for your buck ; when you are in france use ONLY energas , it's half the price of calor , and don't forget to take home a full bottle if possible , no reason not to have half price gas in the uk as well , 2 x 10 Kg energas will cost you £27 , the same amount of gas from calor would be about £60 ...quite a difference !

 

[vwalan]

think if you ask autogas they can supply an adapter to fit your original pigtail and standard euro gas bottles.then its easier still .

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[lebesset]

alan , I have seen adaptors to turn calor propane bottle to euro standard , but not the other way around
could be wrong of course

 

[vwalan]

may have been in the BES catalogue i,ve seen them some where. i made an adapter for filling butane bottles with a uk propane filler only to find its available for a few quid.
i would buy from ebay and fill my english propane at the pumps saves all this changing and spending on different bottles .
as a matter of interest there is aload of cheap refillable bottles on ebay google refillable gas bottles .too expensive for me but woyuld suit the ones that like that idea.
the french clipon bottles i think were patio gas or something.
have fun . cheers alan.

 

[John & Joan]

alan , I have seen adaptors to turn calor propane bottle to euro standard , but not the other way around
could be wrong of course

Gaslow sell them. See also the Calor Gas site. I bought two to convert my Calor Cylinders to suit the fitting on my German Truma Change over valves before I fitted a fixed tank.

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[OwnedbyCollies]

Thanks to everyone for the advice!

I have just talked to a very helpful operative from Gaslow who has (very patiently!!) answered all of my questions and very shortly I will be the proud owner of a new pigtail and some adapters that will cover all eventualities!

I now feel more confident that we will have endless gas supplies and won't have to wash in cold water or eat sandwiches for the last week of our holiday!

 

[lebesset]

ok , so doesn't adapt euro bottles so you can use uk propane pigtails then , same as I have seen in other words

 

[lebesset]

OBC
don't understand that at all
if you have a euro pigtail , you don't need any adaptors , it fits right on !

btw , you did check the width of your gas bottle locker doorway , didn't you ?
they do vary !

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[N Luyetund]

Just had a look on the Gaslow site (also on Calor...norralorra-elp) and found the
adaptor which

Converts 21.8 LH Hoses regs to UK Propane Cylinderds​

but not one that converts me male propane into a 21.8 LH female.... I have a pigtail with that female thread but didn't really want to get into sxddxxg about swapping.....

anyone have the part number/supplier for a propane to LH adaptor?

 

[vwalan]

i think gaslow do one it as the female uk propane one end and screwws on to the male thread on a old british butane . rpi engineering are advertising it in their parts range i think . ring and ask them .
also as a gauge on it for filling or contents .

 

[lebesset]

NL

if you get an adaptor you have to tighten 2 threads
if you get a new pigtail , you have to tighten 2 threads

not a lot of difference

if energas enter the british market [ hopefully ] and undercut calor by a bit , calor will be forced to abandon the old propane thread in favour of standard european , or lose a lot of market share [ the uk propane thread no longer exists outside the british isles ]

keep your fingers crossed that they enter the market ; just imagine if there was one bottle all over europe! competition!!!!!

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[vwalan]

dont think it ever existed anywhere else. there is alot of other gas suppliers in uk now .vertually non use the old butane thread . it can be bought and you can change the brass outlets on empty bottles .(sometimes) lots of companies sell different outlets for you to change to. i just say 30quid fill a propane uk bottle easy.
the other way is go back to reg on bottle then just change reg to suit bottle worked for years .bulkhead regulators pigtails never had, never used ,never will .i like a simple life.

 

[lebesset]

indeed it did exist elsewhere alan , I still have fittings I used in portuguese bottles , mobil if I remember correctly

I think the new 10 Kg size is going to catch on , easier to handle , fits in the lockers of most people who are being ripped off with the 7/6 bottles , standard european thread [ or old uk butane as you seem to wish to call it ]

maybe we can get uk gas prices down a bit for those that exchange their bottles !

ps what could be simpler than an on board regulator and a pigtail ? automatic switchover if you want it

 

[vwalan]

i only call it that as in uk it was the fitting for butane .i worked on a campsite in 1976 when the clipon came out we had adaptors supplied by calor as it was cheaper than giving new regulators out. i still have two. that was the start of my collection of fittings and as we had a big calor tank for use in cars or cooking tanks i started the long road of filling tanks bottles etc. started running cars on a set amount of gas soon learned it was not the right way .then a holiday maker from california sent me a beam convertion .got hold of a calor tank. well its only a bottle on its side with extra fittings suplied by calor . still have it .no 80 percent cut out .thats too modern .a it happened wadham stringers down here became very big at fitting gas convertions .then it all disapeared in the late 80,s. came back almost as a new invention a few years ago,.ihave had the pump for years very handy when the caravan gas tanks disapeared just pumped from bottle to tank.
have a big tank in garden now but no petrol cars to play with.
not good for m,bikes ,could tie bottle to rear rack i suppose.
cheers alan.

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[N Luyetund]

NL

if you get an adaptor you have to tighten 2 threads
if you get a new pigtail , you have to tighten 2 threads

not a lot of difference
...

True but I'd rather 'screw' the thread on an adapter than tater the thread on the regulator...

The LH pigtail has the gauge attached.... I'm presuming that it'll work on the energaz cylinders...

 

[lebesset]

fair enough , but as boyles law will tell you , you can't measure the quantity of gas with a gauge

gives you a rough idea I suppose

 

[N Luyetund]

If in doubt I'll slap it with a hot flannel

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[lebesset]

incidentally , is this the biggest bottles your bessie can carry ie 2 bottles 500mm x 300 mm ?

 

[N Luyetund]

incidentally , is this the biggest bottles your bessie can carry ie 2 bottles 500mm x 300 mm ?

Haven't measured yet:Blush: ....height isn't a problem but the extra 44mm might be...

I like the idea of the twin changeover with a propane one side, LH on t'other ...as soon as Cleggy and Cammy up me pension

 

[lebesset]

well , it's actually a fraction under 300mm , so measure exactly [ or modify with hammer ]

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[OwnedbyCollies]

Locker doorway is 330mm wide - so should be OK!

 

[N Luyetund]

Door's wide/high enough but space within is a little tight..... just about enough space for a frog bottle and a UK 6 kg....

a week on Monday and I'll be putting it to the test

Edit:
I'l have a go at x threading the LH pigtail tomorrow

if I can find me camping gaz adaptor (last seen in tugging days ...just outside living memory) I should be sorted with mergency supply... (4 x 907s at the last count... at least one of them is full)

 

[lebesset]

if you have the ability to travel over with just a camping gas + adaptor to euro standard , then it is worth measuring your locker to see if you can get in 2 energas side by side , you will need ABOUT 590mm

even the first time having to pay €5 for the bottle plus a couple of pigtails, it is still miles cheaper than buying calor in the uk , and a couple of 10Kg butanes will last a long time in the summer in the uk ! in the uk you could carry a calor and an energas until you have emptied both energas bottles

after the initial small investment it is highly profitable !

OBC & NL , don't forget to post how you get on ....and remember the energas website address
and don't forget when you come back to uk you can change to a bottle of propane if you have chosen butane and would prefer something for the weekend , sorry , winter

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