Starting to plan my new van/truck (1 Viewer)

[Gromett]

Sorry @Minxy Girl neither of those two are suitable for what I want. Certainly not the trailer.
I am definitely looking for a very clean large box. Veering towards the 24' one now so I can carry a road legal quad bike or similar in the back.
1st one doesn't look like a 7.5T truck more like a large van

 

[Minxy]

Sorry @Minxy Girl neither of those two are suitable for what I want. Certainly not the trailer.
I am definitely looking for a very clean large box. Veering towards the 24' one now so I can carry a road legal quad bike or similar in the back.
1st one doesn't look like a 7.5T truck more like a large van

I know the 1st one isn't a suitable vehicle for you - that's what I said ... it was the IDEA of the lowered roller door which I thought would make it useful to be able to have a bed over the 'garage' and still give room to park a bike/quad bike in the back ...

 

[Wissel]

This is one I'll definitely be following @Gromett

Now, if you could just speed your plans up and start now please, then post all about your no doubt well thought out electrical system. Then I can stop thinking and copy you

Joking aside, what are your thoughts on heating and water heating?

I've had Truma units for years and tbh not that happy with them. Thinking of going with a Propex heater, plus an ebber or similar for when in transit and for redundancy (aiming to spend a lot of time in cold areas) and then a tankless water heater (Morco room sealed or similar) so a decent shower is possible. Good idea or bad in your opinion?

I have this all planned and can make it all fit, plus it will work on timers from my control panel (Arduino and Bluetooth), just haven't made a final decision.

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[Ivory55]

A 24ft body is more like one used by firms like dfs, parcel boxes always seem to be 20ft

 

[Ivory55]

What about a 10 ton fridge motor . Down plate it to 7.5 ton and all the walls are insulated already. Just a thought.

 

[tacr2man]

Down plating can sometimes cost you quite a bit in load capacity as they are usually built heavier , and suspension can be a bit harsh in some cases. Ex furniture type pantechs have a drop low floor behind the axle which would give a garage below a reasonable height bed at rear .

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[JJ]

http://wagonman2000.blogspot.pt/2013/01/kindred-spirits.html?m=0

Check out this from my blog...

A brilliant van... super conversion... totally stealth when required.


JJ

 

[tacr2man]

http://wagonman2000.blogspot.pt/2013/01/kindred-spirits.html?m=0

Check out this from my blog...

A brilliant van... super conversion... totally stealth when required.


JJ

Did you read to his last blog post ? 07-01-18 where he was caught in the forest fires !!
Sorry just realized that it was You

 

[Gromett]

I know the 1st one isn't a suitable vehicle for you - that's what I said ... it was the IDEA of the lowered roller door which I thought would make it useful to be able to have a bed over the 'garage' and still give room to park a bike/quad bike in the back ...

Thanks. The problem with roller shutter doors is their poor insulation level. I am still mulling over the design and the requirements. But if access to the rear is maintained for a vehicle I will put in a lift up door to provide cover over a garage area probably, the door will also be insulated and sealed. Thanks for the thought though.

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[Gromett]

This is one I'll definitely be following @Gromett

Now, if you could just speed your plans up and start now please, then post all about your no doubt well thought out electrical system. Then I can stop thinking and copy you

You may be waiting a long time. I will be buying the vehicle, insulating, lining and fitting 2 windows. I will then move into it using temporary fixtures while I do the rest over a period of a year or two. This is how I did my van. It means living rough for a bit but it does mean you can redo design elements that don't work. With a 20' or 24' box I can partition off a section as a workshop and keep the live hab area clean and usable while I continue to work on the rest.

Joking aside, what are your thoughts on heating and water heating?

I've had Truma units for years and tbh not that happy with them. Thinking of going with a Propex heater, plus an ebber or similar for when in transit and for redundancy (aiming to spend a lot of time in cold areas) and then a tankless water heater (Morco room sealed or similar) so a decent shower is possible. Good idea or bad in your opinion?

For water heating I will probably get a propex dual gas/electric, but will also have an instant water heater of some variety for the shower. With a 7.5T vehicle I have the payload for a large water and grey tank so being able to have a decent shower again would be lovely. For heating, I will eventually have a some method of transferring heat (calorifier) from the engine when driving, I will also have a propex 2000 for blown air heating. I did consider underfloor heating but not really practical for the build method I will be using. I will also eventually install a separate red diesel tank and an eberspacher so I will be able to have heat from either LPG, Diesel or electric. There will be a an expandable frame on the roof for solar panels. initial rough measurements indicates I could easily fit 1.2Kw of solar. I would have an expandable battery system as well. Initially it will just be a small bank, but as finances allow I would increase the number of batteries and probably work across 2 banks. The entire trucks electrical system will be controlled by solid physical toggle switches as a fall back to an idea I have in gestation for an arduino controlled system that includes 7" e-ink panels around the van and a bluetooth adapter to connect to my phone and tablet. All the lights will operate on something similar to a can bus where by they get a common supply and data signals are sent over the +ve line to tell them to switch on or off. However there would also be a mechanical switch on each light to allow them to be overridden if things go wrong. The switch would be a double throw switch so it has an on/off/auto position.

I have this all planned and can make it all fit, plus it will work on timers from my control panel (Arduino and Bluetooth), just haven't made a final decision.

I am looking forward to this project and actually getting excited again for the first time in many years. But as I said, this is a long term project and not something that will be started tomorrow and finished later this year...[/QUOTE]

 

[Minxy]

Thanks. The problem with roller shutter doors is their poor insulation level. I am still mulling over the design and the requirements. But if access to the rear is maintained for a vehicle I will put in a lift up door to provide cover over a garage area probably, the door will also be insulated and sealed. Thanks for the thought though.

I'll take your word for it Karl as I haven't any experience of being in the back of a delivery wagon with a roller door which you seem to have ... you naughty boy you!

 

[Wissel]

You may be waiting a long time. I will be buying the vehicle, insulating, lining and fitting 2 windows. I will then move into it using temporary fixtures while I do the rest over a period of a year or two. This is how I did my van. It means living rough for a bit but it does mean you can redo design elements that don't work. With a 20' or 24' box I can partition off a section as a workshop and keep the live hab area clean and usable while I continue to work on the rest.


For water heating I will probably get a propex dual gas/electric, but will also have an instant water heater of some variety for the shower. With a 7.5T vehicle I have the payload for a large water and grey tank so being able to have a decent shower again would be lovely. For heating, I will eventually have a some method of transferring heat (calorifier) from the engine when driving, I will also have a propex 2000 for blown air heating. I did consider underfloor heating but not really practical for the build method I will be using. I will also eventually install a separate red diesel tank and an eberspacher so I will be able to have heat from either LPG, Diesel or electric. There will be a an expandable frame on the roof for solar panels. initial rough measurements indicates I could easily fit 1.2Kw of solar. I would have an expandable battery system as well. Initially it will just be a small bank, but as finances allow I would increase the number of batteries and probably work across 2 banks. The entire trucks electrical system will be controlled by solid physical toggle switches as a fall back to an idea I have in gestation for an arduino controlled system that includes 7" e-ink panels around the van and a bluetooth adapter to connect to my phone and tablet. All the lights will operate on something similar to a can bus where by they get a common supply and data signals are sent over the +ve line to tell them to switch on or off. However there would also be a mechanical switch on each light to allow them to be overridden if things go wrong. The switch would be a double throw switch so it has an on/off/auto position.



I am looking forward to this project and actually getting excited again for the first time in many years. But as I said, this is a long term project and not something that will be started tomorrow and finished later this year...

Cheers for that. Seems we are on the same page with heating and electrics

I thought about under floor heating as well and looked at a full Alde install with under floor, instant hot water etc. Until the quote arrived . Thankfully I can't make it fit anyway. I am jealous of the tank capacity you'll have. And the solar.

Do you already have an Arduino system in your van? I have the parts here and the app running, but haven't wired it all together yet (will very soon). Like your lighting solution. My lighting will be controllable via the app, but only a switch all on/off. Just fed up with getting into bed and realising I've left a light on somewhere. Like the E-Ink idea as well. My plan is to have the little 3.5" touchscreen I'm using in a cupboard and use the app as a control panel. The unit itself will be more to program etc.

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[Gromett]

Do you already have an Arduino system in your van? I have the parts here and the app running, but haven't wired it all together yet (will very soon). Like your lighting solution. My lighting will be controllable via the app, but only a switch all on/off. Just fed up with getting into bed and realising I've left a light on somewhere. Like the E-Ink idea as well. My plan is to have the little 3.5" touchscreen I'm using in a cupboard and use the app as a control panel. The unit itself will be more to program etc.

I have LOADS of arduino stuff. However not started implementing much yet.

This is the display I was looking at. Thinking of having 2 of these in the new truck.

Broken Link Removed

 

[ianthebuilder]

Grommet,,,,
Reading your first post sounds like a great idea mate, to be honest,, more comfort, space etc while being here and not touring so much!

I didn't think anyone could do this sort of thing for the £7,000 you mentioned,, but looking at posts, links for wagons etc it sounds quiet achievable, doing it yourself ( obviously)

Very interesting thread and I will be looking foreword to progress,, Good luck grommet, sounds like a great idea!!! X

 

[Gromett]

Grommet,,,,
Reading your first post sounds like a great idea mate, to be honest,, more comfort, space etc while being here and not touring so much!

I didn't think anyone could do this sort of thing for the £7,000 you mentioned,, but looking at posts, links for wagons etc it sounds quiet achievable, doing it yourself ( obviously)

Very interesting thread and I will be looking foreword to progress,, Good luck grommet, sounds like a great idea!!! X

£7,000 would be to get a basic comfortable and habitable vehicle. Nothing special. Here is my costings so far.

£3,000 - £3,500 for the vehicle;
Personnel door £200.00(max)
Spray foam £800.00 (done by a company)
Window 1 £320.00(seitz)
Window 2 £320.00
wood £600.00 (framing, pine tongue and groove and lats)
Kitchen £300

Total £6,000 ish.

The personnel door can be bought as a frame for around £100 or up to £200 including the panel and includes a window.
I was going to do the spray foam myself, however, it actually works out cheaper to get a pro company to come in and do it. This will be quicker as well.
I will have 2 windows to start with. However more will be framed in, but to keep cost down initially I will cover them and add them as funds allow. The £320 windows are the really large ones that will go on each side of the truck in the living area.
The wood is the bare requirements to frame, cover and finish the basic structure including the shower and toilet. (I have a good supplier for trade wood which I will contact nearer the time).
The kitchen will be from ebay,. there are loads and loads of second hand kitchens on there, where you go and strip it out yourself. Some real good quality stuff including appliances can be had dirt cheap. Here is one example.

So perhaps my initial £7,000 target was a bit optimistic. Probably looking at nearer to £8,000. Once you add plumbing, water/heater, tanks, toilet, shower tray and sink.

However, as soon as the structure of the truck is in, I can move in and sell my van and trailer which will release further funds to finish it off.

I will be trying to avoid using motorhome/caravan equipment wherever possible to keep cost down and increase ruggedness.

This is going to be an ongoing project...

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[Gromett]

PS: On things like the shower tray I will be going for extremely durable stone resin. They are not suitable for a van build due to the weight but in a truck they are fantastic.
<Broken link removed>

£70 and seriously durable..

 

[Theonlysue]

Interesting and frightening read re MOT exemption.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/398521/V112G-160514.pdf

Martin

No 20 licenced taxis exempt and
No 41 living vehicles less than 3.5t.

 

[Gromett]

I have gone over a couple of iterations of the plans before I go to bed and have settled on a 24' box.
A 20' box results in an 8.5 Meter truck overall. This won't fit in a single car parking spot like my current van does. So I am thinking I may as well get the extra 4 feet of box length as it won't make that much difference to parking.

That extra length makes all the difference to designing a really comfortable and spacious layout.

I have also decided to go for an RV style toilet with a Black tank underneath. Will install a macerator at the same time so I can pump rather than having to carry the cassette. Current cassette is just under 20 litres and I have to empty once a week. So I am thinking getting a 100 litre black tank will give me a month between empties. If I get a pair of large 200 Litre fresh water tanks that means I should be able to go a month between fills on the fresh and empty on the grey/black. That will be lovely

I have also noted that the height of most of these boxes is smidge under 2.4 Metres. Which is way taller than my current van. So I can put a false floor in to route heating, plumbing and cabling. I will plan the channels so that I can add to it at any time in the future. For instance, I will run a large 12v cable the full length of the truck with spurs to each side. So that any time I want to add to it I can junction off one of the spurs without having to route the cables. There will also be a utility cupboard running from floor to ceiling. I will install a channel that goes through the roof to a large junction box up there so I can add things easily, again without having to worry about drilling holes or routing cables. The same through the floor.

Starting to get interesting (for me at least)...

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[Wissel]

Will the false floor house the water tanks?

 

[vwalan]

No 20 licenced taxis exempt and
No 41 living vehicles less than 3.5t.

living vans if caravans under 3.5 ton dont need motting if self propelled then they come under light vehicle mots .
taxis get motted usually at a council workshop etc mind most under council rules need light mot and the council check so they kind of get two mots .
the v112g form is for vehicles over 3,500kg
but you could look at v112 for mot exemption below 3,500kg .

 

[vwalan]

I have gone over a couple of iterations of the plans before I go to bed and have settled on a 24' box.
A 20' box results in an 8.5 Meter truck overall. This won't fit in a single car parking spot like my current van does. So I am thinking I may as well get the extra 4 feet of box length as it won't make that much difference to parking.

That extra length makes all the difference to designing a really comfortable and spacious layout.

I have also decided to go for an RV style toilet with a Black tank underneath. Will install a macerator at the same time so I can pump rather than having to carry the cassette. Current cassette is just under 20 litres and I have to empty once a week. So I am thinking getting a 100 litre black tank will give me a month between empties. If I get a pair of large 200 Litre fresh water tanks that means I should be able to go a month between fills on the fresh and empty on the grey/black. That will be lovely

I have also noted that the height of most of these boxes is smidge under 2.4 Metres. Which is way taller than my current van. So I can put a false floor in to route heating, plumbing and cabling. I will plan the channels so that I can add to it at any time in the future. For instance, I will run a large 12v cable the full length of the truck with spurs to each side. So that any time I want to add to it I can junction off one of the spurs without having to route the cables. There will also be a utility cupboard running from floor to ceiling. I will install a channel that goes through the roof to a large junction box up there so I can add things easily, again without having to worry about drilling holes or routing cables. The same through the floor.

Starting to get interesting (for me at least)...

10m fits just nicely in two car spaces . mine is that length.
although if i was doing a new truck i think i would look for an 18ft box .
my trailer is 20ft and i,m sure i could cope easily if it was 2ft shorter.
prison cell trucks make good conversions ,insulated windows nice side door and built in steps ,come with eberspachers and air con . roof vents . and cheap. soon knock a conversion up. b&q for units etc easy job . alter back door to suit your conversion.

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[Ivory55]

With the floor being higher and more air flow underneath does this create more wind chill on the floor and do you need more floor insulation . I have no idea just wondered.

 

[ianthebuilder]

PS: On things like the shower tray I will be going for extremely durable stone resin. They are not suitable for a van build due to the weight but in a truck they are fantastic.
<Broken link removed>

£70 and seriously durable..

I like the idea of a proper shower tray,, you could have a huge size shower!! Proper house one!! Oh what luxury!!! Lol

 

[ianthebuilder]

With the floor being higher and more air flow underneath does this create more wind chill on the floor and do you need more floor insulation . I have no idea just wondered.

Could you not fix rubber, or other type skirts to help with that? Permanent I mean?

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[ianthebuilder]

Geometry,, what size, weight is the truck? Are you looking at 7.5 tonnes? With box attached?

 

[Gromett]

Will the false floor house the water tanks?

I have not decided yet to be honest. It depends on how deep I can make the false floor. I won't know that until I can accurately measure the actual box height after adding roof insulation.
Too many unknowns until I actually have the box.. The fresh water will either be in the false floor or inside the box itself. It won't be underneath.

10m fits just nicely in two car spaces . mine is that length.
although if i was doing a new truck i think i would look for an 18ft box .
my trailer is 20ft and i,m sure i could cope easily if it was 2ft shorter.
prison cell trucks make good conversions ,insulated windows nice side door and built in steps ,come with eberspachers and air con . roof vents . and cheap. soon knock a conversion up. b&q for units etc easy job . alter back door to suit your conversion.

My thought was, I can fit my 6 (ish) meter van in a car park space. I couldn't fit my 8 meter Eura Mobil in one. So if I am going to have to start using a double parking space I may as well go for the full size. I am losing the benefit of easy parking I may as well gain the maximum comfort from the loss of convenience. So 24' box is the way I am going. I will be having ALL the creature comforts in it

With the floor being higher and more air flow underneath does this create more wind chill on the floor and do you need more floor insulation . I have no idea just wondered.

I will insulate the floor with 50mm celotex which is double what I have now. I will then add the double floor above this, which will have the heating ducts in it. This should keep the floor much warmer than my current van. Secondly. all around the side will be skirts/storage which will stop wind whistling directly under the floor.

Geometry,, what size, weight is the truck? Are you looking at 7.5 tonnes? With box attached?

7.5T with 24' box. I should have around 2.5T payload I believe as I will be removing rear roller shutter and tail lift (if weight becomes a concern).

 

[ianthebuilder]

I have not decided yet to be honest. It depends on how deep I can make the false floor. I won't know that until I can accurately measure the actual box height after adding roof insulation.
Too many unknowns until I actually have the box.. The fresh water will either be in the false floor or inside the box itself. It won't be underneath.


My thought was, I can fit my 6 (ish) meter van in a car park space. I couldn't fit my 8 meter Eura Mobil in one. So if I am going to have to start using a double parking space I may as well go for the full size. I am losing the benefit of easy parking I may as well gain the maximum comfort from the loss of convenience. So 24' box is the way I am going. I will be having ALL the creature comforts in it


I will insulate the floor with 50mm celotex which is double what I have now. I will then add the double floor above this, which will have the heating ducts in it. This should keep the floor much warmer than my current van. Secondly. all around the side will be skirts/storage which will stop wind whistling directly under the floor.


7.5T with 24' box. I should have around 2.5T payload I believe as I will be removing rear roller shutter and tail lift (if weight becomes a concern).

Thanks,,

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[Carol]

Karl will this curtail you at all staying on some of the CCC. CL's you sometimes like to use or are they flexable. It does seem that you will be able to make it very comfortable, like the idea of the quad bike.

 

[Gromett]

Karl will this curtail you at all staying on some of the CCC. CL's you sometimes like to use or are they flexable. It does seem that you will be able to make it very comfortable, like the idea of the quad bike.

Yes, sadly at least 2 of my favourite CL's will no longer be accessible to me. Not to concerned as I am sure I can find others...

 

[Gromett]

Looks like the DAF LF45 is top of my list at the moment. Seems to be fairly well rated amongst drivers etc and spares appear to be pretty cheap. Probably looking at an 07/08 model with less than 300,000Km on the clock.

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