Brakes ! (1 Viewer)

[Duff]

Hi all, need some help and advice please

Just had the MOT and Service done on the van and had to have new front brake disks and pads !!

Turns out the brakes had seized at some point damaging the disks and pads. I think this happened whilst in France as i remember it feeling a little odd for a bit when we left the site (had stayed for a week)

Anyone had this before and know what could have caused it ?

Thanks
Duff

 

[WillH]

Type of chassis and mileage?

 

[ChrisL]

Some brake calipers have pins that allow them to slide, if the wrong grease or no grease is used these can sieze up, another cause can be a split in the outer brake piston seal allowing water and grit in. As WillH has said more information is needed to give more specific advise.

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[Lazyboy]

Ensure when you have it serviced, at least once a year, that your garage "strips" the brakes down and puts a little "copperslip" grease where needed on the back of the pads. You need to use what I would call an "old school" mechanic who understands that a motorhome generally covers a lower mileage per annum than white van man and spends a lot of time stationary. I made this mistake with my first van and when I eventually changed my garage the first thing they did was strip all the brakes as they were all seized or partially seized. Since then every service they are checked. Not just look at the pads in situ but wheels off and brakes properly checked for wear and operation.

 

[Duff]

Hi, thanks for the replies and sorry for the missing info

It's an 06 Bessecarr E495 on a Fiat / Ducato chassis. Done 41000 miles. It was serviced by the dealers garage who should know that they do low mileage ????

I guess I just wanted to know if I had done something wrong to cause this to happen ?

Any thoughts gratefully received

Thanks
Duff

 

[WillH]

Have you ever had the brakes serviced. I only ask because when my van, also a Bessacarr, was 8 years old I had the brakes stripped and rebuilt with new pads. In a service only the function is checked. At the time it had 55 k miles on the clock. Although the brake performance was fine, when opened up the pads literally fell out. It sounds as if yours have never been opened up. I use a local garage for these jobs, much cheaper.

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[tonyidle]

I've had two pads now where the friction material has detached from the backing steel plate. One was a front with (admittedly!) only around 5mm left but the other was a rear with 8+mm left. I don't know the provenance of the pads as they came with a 10 year old van. The effect from a driving point of view was that pedal travel increased dramatically as the pads disappeared then on next application were normal but with considerable noise - as you'd expect. I don't know if this is relevant but it has never happened to me (on any vehicle) in the past. The brakes were otherwise OK and only required new pads (of a known decent make) and discs.

 

[TheBig1]

There are also a huge amount of counterfeit brake pads about packaged in near identical boxes. Always insist on good branded pads when renewed as the fakes perform poorly and disintegrate leading to damaged disks

 

[dave newell]

Motorhome brakes live in a very hostile environment. They get heated by friction, splashed with cold water every time you hit a puddle, splattered with all manner of road debris from chippings to dead hedgehogs then left to stand for weeks on end. Things seize up, it's not unusual. Annual servicing can help to prevent it but it still can, and does, happen.

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[tonyidle]

There are also a huge amount of counterfeit brake pads about packaged in near identical boxes. Always insist on good branded pads when renewed as the fakes perform poorly and disintegrate leading to damaged disks

I do (l fit them myself) PO obviously didn't.

 

[Duff]

Thanks again for the replies. Only had the van for a year and as it came from a dealer i would have thought they would have done a brake service. They did a full service and changed the Cam Belt and the Clutch too. I am guessing thats how they found the issue this time.

Anyway I will put it down to wear and tear and fingers crossed these new ones last a little longer !

Going to use a local garage from now one and find somone else to do the Hab Check

Thanks again
Duff

 

[Gromett]

My van brakes had a similar issue. The sliders had corroded and this caused a judder when braking downhill. I started getting them stripped down once a year and cleaned.
The previous owner had apparently done this himself and not replaced the rubber boots on the end of the sliders.

The disk on one of the front wheels ended up cracking. When I replaced the disk I also bought new sliders, boots and a service kit. Since then I have had zero problems with the brakes.
My suggestion as per a previous post (ChrisL) would be to get a new slider kit and replace them and put new boots on. It cost me £50 for a full set of sliders (front and back) and took the garage about an hour and a half to replace them all. I continue to get them to strip the brakes down each year and clean/grease everything up.

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[Tincataylor]

As above the most likely cause of the problem is wear and tear on the rubber seals that keep the dirt and moisture out of the sliders that the caliper body moves on. As advised above get the garage to strip them down each year when you have your MOT and all will be well.

 

[ChrisL]

My suggestion as per a previous post (ChrisL) would be to get a new slider kit and replace them and put new boots on. It cost me £50 for a full set of sliders (front and back) and took the garage about an hour and a half to replace them all. I continue to get them to strip the brakes down each year and clean/grease everything up.

Good advice from Gromett, it is very important to use the correct grease, in my case it should be silicone grease and using regular high melting point grease led to the brakes seizing before the next MOT, so check the workshop manual and get the correct stuff would be my advise, also don't trust the garage to know if they are not a main dealer.

 

[PeteH]

Good advice from Gromett, it is very important to use the correct grease, in my case it should be silicone grease and using regular high melting point grease led to the brakes seizing before the next MOT, so check the workshop manual and get the correct stuff would be my advise, also don't trust the garage to know if they are not a main dealer.

Brake work I do myself (Normally). I know that garages can be hit and miss from experience. Biggest problem now is working outside in the cold!, not good for Arthur(itis), I have used "copper-slip" for many years, since we first used it on Marine Diesels in the 70`s. makes strip and clean easier, I put a thick wood block in the space and push the Pistons out a little to check under the Dust seals too, Use it on pins, sliders and backs of brake pads/anti grab shim. Check also that the brake pads slid in easily, I have found recently that I have to take a file to the top and bottom of some, largely to remove excess paint!, Quality control is obviously not high in some places!!

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[Feltwell]

You can use Copper Slip on the back of pads (very sparingly!), but there is a school of thought that it's no longer the best stuff to use. I've been using this Textar brake grease instead for a while and it performs very well, tenacious stuff, it certainly doesn't come off the pads in a hurry and it stops brake squeal.

https://textar-professional.com/textar-training-center/the-use-of-copper-grease-on-modern-brakes/

Whatever you do, do not use copper slip on the sliding pins - that must be a silicone based grease. Many folks think of copper slip as a lubricant, indeed it's often branded as copper grease - which implies lubrication - but it is in fact an anti-seize compound (and a very good one). Use it on a moving part and you'll wear it out, as copper slip is abrasive. I use it a lot whenever a bolt or screw is removed on the van (that doesn't require threadlock naturally) - a little smear on the threads and it stops it seizing - that's what it's really meant for.

Brakeparts.co.uk is a good source of brake service kits if you want to overhaul your calipers - you can get an inexpensive kit for Ducato calipers for example with new sliding pins and all the seals in. After 10 years I found the boot seals that go over the sliding pins on my van were getting perished, new ones and new pins and plenty of silicone grease should keep it all nicely free for a good few more years. The friction material was coming away from the backing pads on the front brake pads as well - as others have said - they're really not that expensive, worth changing every 5 years or so regardless of wear I'd say.

 

[PeteH]

Copper-slip. IS an anti seize compound, hence it`s use on parts likely to become difficult to remove. The clearance on the pins is far greater than needed (holes are usually slightly oval) so lubrication is not the issue. Personally. I would be very reluctant to put Silicone anywhere near a friction surface, contamination could reduce performance.

 

[Feltwell]

You should be fine on the sliding pins, sealed in by the rubber boots. It is the stuff the brake manufacturers recommend for the pins - buy one of the overhaul kits I mention above and you even get a little sachet of silicone grease included.

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[Gromett]

You should be fine on the sliding pins, sealed in by the rubber boots. It is the stuff the brake manufacturers recommend for the pins - buy one of the overhaul kits I mention above and you even get a little sachet of silicone grease included.

That is the stuff I insisted the garage use. They were going to put something else in, I forget what is was now..

 

[Time4T]

Copper slip will eventually perish any rubber it comes into contact with, use it on the back of discs to stop them rusting onto the hubs, use it on threads of wheel nuts & bolts (making sure not to get any on the mating surface or the nut/bolt will be over torqued).
Red rubber grease or Silicon grease is the stuff to use on brake slider pins etc.,

I started using silicon grease about 10+ years ago & havn't had a pin seize on me yet!

Phill