Lights are on but no one is in (1 Viewer)

[Mizar]

Got home from work this evening to find my motorhome with one side light on one rear number plate light on and the brake lights on the van was all locked up and keys in the house spooky.

Its an 09 Ducato base, I started the van turned it off again and lights still on, went in the garage to get some tools to disconnect the battery came out brake lights gone off but one side light and one number plate light still on, turned around and then they had gone off.

Just wondered if anyone else had any electrical problems with the Ducato i have disconnected the battery just to be safe and i will ring fiat in the morning as it is still under warranty.

Gedoh:

 

[pappajohn]

if it hasnt been used for a while and its a rear side light..........MICE !!!!

they love to nibble electrical wiring and could have chewed the rear loom.

could also be a fault on the canbus wiring system distribition board, if it is a canbus system.

 

[Mizar]

Thanks we did use it over the weekend with no problems i dont know which loom it is.

thanks
Ged

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[hilldweller]

Got home from work this evening to find my motorhome with one side light on one rear number plate light on and the brake lights on the van was all locked up and keys in the house spooky.
Gedoh:

Not really spooky, just the deep joys of complex electronic control of the simplest of circuity.

These university trained "engineers" arrive in the factories and they know how to setup up a magnificent control system using a handful of wires instead of hundreds. So they sell the idea to management on cost and features.

But those engineers have no experience of the real world and what happens when not one but a million are out there in the real world.

We are the ones who live with the aftermath.

What caused your problem I don't know. A genuine fault. Some high powered transmitter ( CB ?? ) that got past the screening. Lightning.

 

[Pampasgrass]

Side lights

Got home from work this evening to find my motorhome with one side light on one rear number plate light on and the brake lights on the van was all locked up and keys in the house spooky.

Its an 09 Ducato base, I started the van turned it off again and lights still on, went in the garage to get some tools to disconnect the battery came out brake lights gone off but one side light and one number plate light still on, turned around and then they had gone off.

Just wondered if anyone else had any electrical problems with the Ducato i have disconnected the battery just to be safe and i will ring fiat in the morning as it is still under warranty.

Gedoh:

Have you made sure that you have not left the indicator stork in an ON position or after you have entered your driveway and NOT cancelled it?

 

[Mizar]

Yes i thought that when i pulled up the drive but that is in the off position but i still does not explain the brake lights.
thanks
Ged

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

Have you made sure that you have not left the indicator stork in an ON position or after you have entered your driveway and NOT cancelled it?

i think thats a VW thing and wouldnt put the brakelights on anyway...just the sidelights on the side the stick is switched to....doesnt work like that on ducato's though unless the later models are different.:thumb:

 

[hilldweller]

.doesnt work like that on ducato's though unless the later models are different.:thumb:

That is the big attraction of computer control - boss says to geek "Ehe, I lika the waya the VW putsa on it's sidelights". So 5 mins later geek says "Youa meena lika thees Boss".

It's all so easy - 'till it goes wrong.


How do you like the Italian accent - good eh !

 

[Bruce Burge]

Lights on no one in

Had same problem on a car(,fuse box full of water) rain, frost, snow, we have had recently may be the cause. Bruce

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

That is the big attraction of computer control - boss says to geek "Ehe, I lika the waya the VW putsa on it's sidelights". So 5 mins later geek says "Youa meena lika thees Boss".

It's all so easy - 'till it goes wrong.


How do you like the Italian accent - good eh !

you been watching the GODFATHER Brian ????

ya dont need a geek to do that.....VW did it on the MK2 golf...nearest that got to a computer was the designers CAD program.

 

[Mizar]

Found the problem a big melted mess at the rear of the van i had a towbar fitted when we bought the van from new and the wiring from tow bar electrical socket goes in to a small black box that says universal wiring interface this box has melted it was stuck to the rear valance of the motorhome and it has got that hot its blistered the exterior of the valance whats worrying that when the ignition is off this box was still live and my self & partner and my 10 & 4 year old sons have been away in it this week end,

The next problem is the interface on van and is it a fiat part or is it something the towbar installers fit it looks to me that the wiring loom is soldered into it and the tow bar electrics are connected into it. both parties are going to blame each other i would think.

 

[hilldweller]

Found the problem a big melted mess at the rear of the van

Ouch.

Looks like your towbar installer has a lot of explaining to do.

With CANBUS they have to supply an add on box to switch the trailer lights, looks like they screwed up.

Yes a CANBUS circuit is always live, the principle is that one power wire feeds all and one electronic data wire tells remote blocks to turn on and off.

Strange a fuse did not blow.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[bill2b]

Ged
No idea re the problem but...

Did you get my PM I sent yonks ago?

oh:

 

[pappajohn]

sounds like a canbus interface to me but i would expect it at the front...not soldered in at the back.

not genned up on canbus but i think the whole system is permenently live and needs a signal to trigger and complete the circuit...different signal for different lights and works on an electronic relay system.

there are far fewer wires in this system than a conventional wiring loom and one live wire can feed many different lights....maybe tail, brake, fog, reverse, indicators etc depending on the signal received at the control module.

the interface usually plugs into the canbus control module under the dash or bonnet and overcomes the need for special relays.

i think this is the same system that allows bulb failure warnings to show on the dashboard.

 

[pappajohn]

Ouch.

Looks like your towbar installer has a lot of explaining to do.

With CANBUS they have to supply an add on box to switch the trailer lights, looks like they screwed up.

Yes a CANBUS circuit is always live, the principle is that one power wire feeds all and one electronic data wire tells remote blocks to turn on and off.

Strange a fuse did not blow.

agreed Brian....looks like they've soldered the interface directly to the wiring loom to save running the new trailer socket loom to the front.

bet it wasnt a recognised towbar installer.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Mizar]

Bill2b

sorry no i never recieved any PM

Ged

Thanks for everyones replies but just to clear up would the interface have been supplied by the towbar installer and then plugged into a socket the loom.

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

You know what, there are some clever buggers on Fun, PappaJohn and 'Grumpy!' Brian.

Well done.

Peter

 

[pappajohn]

Bill2b

sorry no i never recieved any PM

Ged

Thanks for everyones replies but just to clear up would the interface have been supplied by the towbar installer and then plugged into a socket the loom.

yes it would be supplied by the towbar fitters and are usually vehicle specific.
they dont plug into the loom but into a dedicated socket on the control box at the front

they can be expensive so a 'universal' interface is going to be a cheap option but definately not the best option.

no alterations/additions to wiring is permitted as it confuses the control unit.
it recognises there is supposed to be a certain load (ampage) on a circuit and if it senses a heavier load it doesnt know what to do....hence the proper interface.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

have a read of this and show it to the bar installer when you visit them.

Link Removed

 

[Geo]

I hope Mizar doesn't go in guns a blazing following the "speculation" on here
there are a lot of errors in the statements and suggestions made and he may look very silly
it may be fiats problem it may be the tow bars fitters problem, but FAULT!!!! me thinks not
It all worked fine onceoh:
The majority of dedicated can bus connections are not made to the front of a vehicleoh: they are factory fitted at the rear (for tow bars)

Most of these are cut off by the converters as they extend the chassis and wiring so a universal one has to used

A simple sticking brake light switch may have over heated the towing interface causing the side light problems
an electrical mishap Fiat didn't go out of their way to fit a faulty switch(if thats what caused it) and the tow bar man didn't make the interface so why fault or blame, just responsibility it will get sorted, a lot faster with the right approach.

Geo

 

[hilldweller]

yes it would be supplied by the towbar

I agree.

Also, if you can see soldered joints under your vehicle how long are they going to last ? Damp and solder do not mix, I learned that the hard way long time ago.

It's been bodged.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Mizar]

Thanks again everyone the soldered cables I can see are soldered connections to the interface circuit board which I pressume were on the interface when it was purchased and the wires from that go off to the loom I presume but I could not see them last night it was dark I will have a better look at the weekend.
The tow bar electrical socket was then connected to the interface with terminals on the circuit board. The interface was stuck to the rear of the back valance which I suspect catches all the water when driving.

Do I just get it sorted myself or do I argue with fiat and the dealer who had the towbar fitted before I collected it just under 12
months ago.

 

[bazfergy]

You know what, there are some clever buggers on Fun, PappaJohn and 'Grumpy!' Brian.

Well done.

Peter

They wont be clever for long if they stay on the "CANBUS" they reckon it's bad for the memory

 

[Geo]

I agree.

Also, if you can see soldered joints under your vehicle how long are they going to last ? Damp and solder do not mix, I learned that the hard way long time ago.

It's been bodged.

I am intrigued Brian
It appears I and thousands of others have been bodging electrical installations
Please do tell us the correct method

Mizer you don't argue with anyone,its under warranty
Take it back to the person who arranged fitting(who you paid) and inform them of the problem,show them the the damage and express your concerns at the possible risks you perceived,
Ask them to rectify at no expense to your self, discuss compensation if you need or want it, speak slowly and very quite (it worries them)
Shout and they will shout back, they will then go on to prove you probably left your lights on causing the fault
Or follow others advise and start legal proceedings for faulty workmanship without delay
What ever happend to accidents and mishaps
you know what they say where theres blame theres a forumoh:
Geo

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[hilldweller]

I am intrigued Brian
It appears I and thousands of others have been bodging electrical installations
Please do tell us the correct method
Geo

"looks to me that the wiring loom is soldered into it" I took that to mean he'd seen a soldered joint and I then thought if he can see it it can get wet. Flux residue and water and the wire rots through.

I've soldered many joints on cars but always coated them in contact adhesive to waterproof them, let it dry then make physically secure with tape, then support with ties as needed. It's a slow process.

But soldered joints in aircraft wiring is a no-no - reason - you get a brittle edge where the soldering ends and with vibration it might break. They use expensive gold crimps.

Wiring on motor vehicles is horrendous, spades all over exposed to the atmosphere just waiting to cause trouble. I wouldn't mind if they smeared them with silicon grease but they never do.

 

[robnchris]

Hi,

Mizer you don't argue with anyone,its under warranty
Take it back to the person who arranged fitting(who you paid) and inform them of the problem,show them the the damage and express your concerns at the possible risks you perceived,
Ask them to rectify at no expense to your self, discuss compensation if you need or want it, speak slowly and very quite (it worries them)
Shout and they will shout back, they will then go on to prove you probably left your lights on causing the fault
Or follow others advise and start legal proceedings for faulty workmanship without delay
What ever happend to accidents and mishaps
you know what they say where theres blame theres a forumoh:
Geo

Hi,
This is 100% sound advice, you are under warranty so go back and show them the problem, like advised talk slowly and quietly, do not profess to be an expert (that`s why you paid them for the work) but show them you`re not stupid and ask can they please make good what is obviously very wrong and a potential fire risk, health and safety is a very important issue.

Hope all goes well.
Rob and Chris.

 

[Mizar]

Thanks everyone

Ged

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[froghopper]

lights on

well i have nothing to say on the problem, its far to complicated for me, so what you ask am i saying,,,, well just more and more amazed at brian, our hilldweler friend, i only log into read his words of wisdom, and kneel at the feet of knowledge , in the vain hope a crumb or two will drop at my feet and i will gather them up,,, and now, he speaks to me in other tongues,, where will it end, one man, thats all he his,, i think some sort of accolade should be given to him,, :thumb:friends, a vote, what does he deserve,,, :shouth wise and wonderfull being,,, :thumb::thumb:he is bloody handsome as well ,, are you going to poole in march,, ??? I am cheers brian, all in good humour :Blush::Blush::Blush:

 

[pappajohn]

I hope Mizar doesn't go in guns a blazing following the "speculation" on here
there are a lot of errors in the statements and suggestions made and he may look very silly
it may be fiats problem it may be the tow bars fitters problem, but FAULT!!!! me thinks not
It all worked fine onceoh:
The majority of dedicated can bus connections are not made to the front of a vehicleoh: they are factory fitted at the rear (for tow bars)

Most of these are cut off by the converters as they extend the chassis and wiring so a universal one has to used

A simple sticking brake light switch may have over heated the towing interface causing the side light problems
an electrical mishap Fiat didn't go out of their way to fit a faulty switch(if thats what caused it) and the tow bar man didn't make the interface so why fault or blame, just responsibility it will get sorted, a lot faster with the right approach.

Geo

Geo, mizar asked for input and was given it in good faith....as i said at the beginning of my post....
sounds like a canbus interface to me but i would expect it at the front...not soldered in at the back.

not genned up on canbus

i believed these to be plugged in at the front with a dedicated plug and socket...unaware the socket was at the rear.

incidently, yes the converters extend the wiring, but why dont they cut the wiring BEFORE the interface socket, extend the wiring then retain the original socket.
that way the dedicated loom could stiill be used instead of 'bodging it' with a cheap universal interface.......'cos a universal is just that...universal = fits all.
if this was such a good thing why do the quality towbar fitters use a dedicated, vehicle specific interface and the manufacturers fit a dedicated socket.....and no, they dont have a monopoly on the looms.

Please do tell us the correct method

using the equipment supplied by the manufacturers is the correct method...not a pair of wire cutters and a solder gun.

 

[hilldweller]

, :shouth wise and wonderfull being,,, :thumb::thumb:he is bloody handsome as well ,, are you going to poole in march,, ??? I am cheers brian, all in good humour :Blush::Blush::Blush:

I'll have a pint of what you're on mate.

No make that two.

But Poole is a too pricey from here with our big trip not long afterwards.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}