Pilote P740GJ - Anyone have one or similar? (2 Viewers)

[Wissel]

@Dave K @Blue Knight

Quick question to you Pilote 740 owners,

Is there space underneath the van where a spare tyre or external gas tank would fit without killing ground clearance?

Fits fine on a normal van chassis, not sure what's under the motorhome chassis?

This is the underside of my van (Boxer lwb 2010):

 

[Blue Knight]

G'Day David,

A Fiat Ducato spare wheel and carrier (not fitted as standard on Pilote MHs) weighs-in at circa 30kg for the unit and 26kg for a 15" steel pressed wheel with tyre. If you opt for an alloy wheel setup then expect to add about 6.5kg to your wheel so that's about 60kg extra which will be loaded to your rear axle. The unit sits just behind the rear axle and does not affect ground clearance.

I may be way off the mark by saying this but fitting an LPG/gas storage canister behind the rear axle would be verging on dangerous with the probability of grounding the vehicle being incredibly high if not inevitable.

The rear end is long on a P740 and IMO your accumulated options list (in weight terms) is now starting to get to the point where an MTPLM of 3.65T will not suffice; more importantly your rear axle weight has ran out of spare kg's to cope with the toys.

The 3.65T mass (and how it is distributed) is more than enough for me and the missus but I think you should be opting for the 3.85T air assist and alloy wheel upgrade to help reinforce the load capacity of your rear axle. I would even suggest that you price-up the heavy chassis @ 4.4T to see if that would be best for you. You may wish to add air assist (as a minimum option) and by doing so you could fit the tank within the boot for safety and peace of mind.

The current MY17 model has an underslung waste water tank mid-way between the front and rear axles so this is not ideal for fitting an LPG unit IMO. The MY18 model may have better clearances due to the change in the waste tank spec but I can't guarantee it. Also, the dealers will struggle to tell you about next years paint schemes, never mind something as technical as ground clearances, so you will probably have more chance of getting the answer from your dead dog.

Back later,

Andrew

 

[Wissel]

Thanks for your reply Andrew.

I take it you don't bother with a spare wheel? I was hoping a spare could be attached further forward under the van - more weight over rear axle was what I was trying to avoid. Seems if the cage is 30kg this idea is a non-starter.

I don't want a spare in the garage due to weight balance. Might have to do without a spare.

Kind of the same regarding an underslung gas tank. On my current van it's fitted quite near the front of the van. Not a major issue if one can't be fitted in a similar spot (wouldn't dream of putting it at the back of the vehicle), I'll go for lightweight re-fillible gas bottles instead.

Keeping the weight down is at the front of my mind. In fact I have a spreadsheet with the weights of everything I currently use in my van and what we want in the next. Besides the 120kg that will be in the boot, it's actually not to bad. The extra things we carry like a couple of laptops etc are more than offset by our much lighter batteries.

Most of the weight in the boot is an allowance for 2x electric bike (overestimated weight on these as not bought yet). If I have to I can store the batteries for these nearer the front of the van.

3.85T option is something I'll look at closer to the time if we are getting close on weight, but at the moment it looks like 3.65T will be fine. We don't carry that much tbh. Never have.

The fun of planning out a motorhome. Think in some ways it was less effort building our last one

Thanks for your help,
David

PS - The dogs not dead - he's just lazy and appears dead most of the time

EDIT @Blue Knight I don't suppose you have the weights for each axle and the overhang size Andrew? Would be good to do my weights more accurately. Thanks.

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[Blue Knight]

Hi David,

I do intend to get a spare wheel and afiix it to the forward garage wall but I've not had much time recently to sort things. I have heard of people fabricating their own hanger that weighs circa 12kg but that's not my plan in this instance.

Your bike batteries can probably go under the small L-shape lounge seat or even the single seat directly behind that of the drivers; there's loads of space and like you I would rather bring the heavy items forward if practicable to do so.

Measurements as requested:

1. Front Axle: 1850kg
2. Rear Axle: 2000kg
3. Distance from rear central hub axle to the rear body: 2450mm

As per my usual MO I've taken one more photo for you mate ;-)

The image depicts the mid-to-rear area of the chassis and includes the waste tank (right) and the gas locker (black box) immediately to the front. The aperture immediate upwards and front would probably facilitate the mounting of a compact (and long) LPG unit.

You will be able to see an aluminium support bracket which lies between (and above) the two chassis cross members, it is closer to the right one than the left. Well, with the new MY18 variant this will be removed and the floor which you see above it will simply sit flushed on the chassis - this is how Pilote will achieve the extra 50mm to make the dual floor, so even discounting this space, you should be able to squeeze an LPG unit within the cavity.

The waste water tank on the right is a big and cumbersome bit of kit but this will be refined in MY18 once the waste water tank is incorporated into the floor.

I think you could be onto something with the LPG unit from what I've seen today.

Hope this helps,

Andrew

 

[Wissel]

Thanks again Andrew - the image is perfect

I could easily fit the same type of tank as I have now in that gap, without any risk of grounding the tank. This will weigh no more than the gas bottles and will free up the gas locker. As it's right beside the gas locker it will be an easy job

I guess it would be to much to hope that the spare wheel would fit in the now empty gas locker?

This would bring all the weight a lot further forward?

I know an 11kg cylinder is 560mm high and 310mm deep. My current tyre on my Boxer is 670mm in diameter. My guess is the locker is slightly to small. Still, always useful to have another locker.

Really appreciate the help,
David

 

[Bugsy_]

Hi Andrew, hi David,
My 2ps worth about the Payload.
When we bought the 730g it was a 3500kg model.
Being naive didn't weight it before I bOught it.

Options extras on it were
6speed 160 multi jet
Awning, rear air ride suspension, satellite, solar panel and tow bar package.

Got it home, first trip away weighed it.

3450kg empty. No people, no dog no water and no clothes or food nothing in the garage.!!!

So upgrade to 3850 via svtech. (Max 2000 rear 1850 front.

3 peddle bikes (2 carbon!) in garage. Full water. Full diesel 2 people 1 dog and about 20 kg food and clothes and one spare wheel under the table

Weight 3810 kgs

but 2150 on rear

Whichever way you skin it it's technically "illegal"

Loading the garage with 3 bikes will almost certainly exceed the rear wheel limit. Even alloys with higher rates tires will only give you a max of 2200 on the rear and your running the tires maxed out.

Point being payload is def an issue. We travel light!

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[Wissel]

Ouch @Bugsy_

Looking at your van (in standard trim) the payload should be 395kg. Guess those extras really eat into that. Damn.

The P740GJ (that I'm looking at) has a payload of 550kg, plus the extra 150 for being 3.65t rated. I'll be taking the 150bhp option and a spare wheel, but will be carrying a couple of electric bikes.

Might try and fins a dealer with one of these and get in on a weigh bridge.

Thanks for the info, David

EDIT - think I'll look into @Blue Knight suggestion of the 4.4t version as well. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Blue Knight]

David, Bugsy,

I don't just use the official payload numbers in the Pilote brochure but instead I strip all the figures down to the bones to ensure that I know what weight I have available, axle dependent

The 2017 brochure states that MIRO is calculated on the following:

1. No driver (Unlike some brands which include a 75kg driver in the MIRO).
2. 20 litres of water
3. Diesel tank @ 90% full.
4. 1 x gas bottle at 90% full.
5. There's also the European Leglisation crap about the +/-5% variation in the basic & standard equipment for the MIRO.

If you purchase a Sensation-specced MY17 130BHP Euro-6 P740GJ with an MTPLM of 3.65T, without any additional equipment being added, then by my estimation the following figures apply:

1. Sensation Payload (Basic): 530kg
2. HDV Light Chassis Increase to 3.65T: 150kg.
3. 20-litres of water: 20kg
4. 90% Fuel (90ltr tank so 81ltr @ 0.85kg/ltr): 68.85kg
5. 1 x 13kg Gas bottle with tare weight of: 14.5kg
6. 90% of 13kg gas: 11.7kg

Total: 795.05

..................everything thereafter is easy to calculate for my simple mind, including such things as the upgrade from 130BHP to 150BHP which equates to 11kg according to Pilote.

Very best,

Andrew

 

[Wissel]

David, Bugsy,

I don't use the official payload numbers in the Pilote brochure but instead I strip all the figures down to the bones to ensure that I know what I have available.

The 2017 brochure states that MIRO is calculated on the following:

1. No driver (Unlike some brands which include a 75kg driver in the MIRO).
2. 20 litres of water
3. Diesel tank @ 90% full.
4. 1 x gas bottle at 90% full.
5. There's also the European Leglisation crap about the +/-5% variation in the basic & standard equipment for the MIRO.

If you purchase a Sensation-specced MY17 130BHP Euro-6 P740GJ with an MTPLM of 3.65T, without any additional equipment being added, then by my estimation the following figures apply:

1. Sensation Payload (Basic): 530kg
2. HDV Light Chassis Increase to 3.65T: 150kg.
3. 20-litres of water: 20kg
4. 90% (90ltr tank so 81ltr @ 0.85kg/ltr): 68.85kg
5. 1 x 13kg Gas bottle with tare weight of: 14.5kg
6. 90% of 13kg gas: 11.7kg

Total: 795.05

..................everything thereafter is easy to calculate for my simple mind, including such things as the upgrade from 130BHP to 150BHP which equates to 11kg according to Pilote.

Very best,

Andrew

You've just answered another of my questions Andrew, what the 150BHP upgrade weighs. I've emailed Pilote for a complete list of upgrade weights, but won't be holding my breath (but you never know)

Based on what you've written, out of 795kg I'll have to take off:

Driver, passenger and dog: I'll allow 200kg which will cover the dogs stuff as well - down to 595
Spare wheel: say 35kg including a bracket - now 560
Garage bits (bikes, windbreaks, bbq, outdoor furniture, few tools): 120kg - now 440
Electrics (PC stuff for work, lithium batteries and chargers, solar, no TV): Because of lithium being lighter 10kg max - 430kg
Underslung gas (full) - hoping to use larger 55ltr tank which is 26kg + gas - say 50kg max - now 380kg
clothes and personal stuff: 50kg - 330kg
Camera gear etc: 30kg - 300kg
Kitchen stuff: 20kg - 280kg
Food and bottled water (don't hate lol): 20kg - 260kg
Temp satellite dish: 15kg max (possible just 2kg, not decided on system yet) - 245kg
Diesel- say 65kg - 180kg
Water - say 50kg (most times much less) - 130kg
Awning - 30kg - 100kg

I feel like I'm missing something obvious? If not, 100kg free would be ample I think?

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[Bugsy_]

Hi wissel,

Driving back from Germany now, will try to reply more once home but I think re main issue is the rear wheel weight.

Almost everything in the van loads the rear wheel.
In my pre departure weigbridge I had
Rear 2140 (max allowable 2000)
Front 1650 (max allowable 1850)
Total with both wheels on weighbridge 3810 kgs.

I removed one of the twin 13 kgs and moved the spare tire from under bed to under table.
The late garage while very useful, is behind the rear wheels so everything you load in it increases rear load and lifts the front. Makes it difficult to balance and make the most of the total capacity.

Steel rims max loading is 1000 per wheel!
Hence you need stronger alloys 1100 per wheel to take the stronger tires!

This is not just a Pilote issue!

 

[Bugsy_]

@blueknite

You said the HDV chassis upgrade was 150kg to raise the payload from 3500 to 3650.
This seems pointless?

Is that correct?

 

[Blue Knight]

@blueknite

You said the HDV chassis upgrade was 150kg to raise the payload from 3500 to 3650.
This seems pointless?

Is that correct?

Morning Bugsy,

In some ways I totally agree with you but it's all dependent on the van selection and whether it has the suitable storage points in the correct areas of the van to help utilise the extra 150kg, (within axle weight limitations).

Personally speaking, I'm quite happy that we are operating under 3.5T all day long but the 3.65T caveat helps reduce my annual road tax by £80. If I distribute the weight correctly then I will get use of some of those extra kg's.

Cheers,

Andrew

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[Blue Knight]

You've just answered another of my questions Andrew, what the 150BHP upgrade weighs. I've emailed Pilote for a complete list of upgrade weights, but won't be holding my breath (but you never know)

Based on what you've written, out of 795kg I'll have to take off:

Driver, passenger and dog: I'll allow 200kg which will cover the dogs stuff as well - down to 595
Spare wheel: say 35kg including a bracket - now 560
Garage bits (bikes, windbreaks, bbq, outdoor furniture, few tools): 120kg - now 440
Electrics (PC stuff for work, lithium batteries and chargers, solar, no TV): Because of lithium being lighter 10kg max - 430kg
Underslung gas (full) - hoping to use larger 55ltr tank which is 26kg + gas - say 50kg max - now 380kg
clothes and personal stuff: 50kg - 330kg
Camera gear etc: 30kg - 300kg
Kitchen stuff: 20kg - 280kg
Food and bottled water (don't hate lol): 20kg - 260kg
Temp satellite dish: 15kg max (possible just 2kg, not decided on system yet) - 245kg
Diesel- say 65kg - 180kg
Water - say 50kg (most times much less) - 130kg
Awning - 30kg - 100kg

I feel like I'm missing something obvious? If not, 100kg free would be ample I think?

G'Day David,

I just love lists so it was a pleasure reading your post

The only things I would add:

1. You mentioned before that you may require multi-solar units fitted so on average a solar panel will weigh-in at circa 9-12 kg each.
2. You will need to consider the European Legislation on the +/-5% variation in basic & standard equipment. The Sensation-spec MIRO is set at 2,970kg so IMO I would add the 5% variation (as a worst case scenario) on a new MIRO which excludes the gas, water, fuel; meaning 5% of 2,854.95kg is 143kg to add.
3. You've not mentioned any waste water so I assume you'll travel empty .
4. The other weights from the 'options list' for consideration are:

a. GB Pack (GRP sides, not aluminium as per the French-spec vans): 10kg.
b. Double-Din Radio: 1kg.
c. Front fogs and LED DRLs: 2kg
d. Thetford 36-litre Oven and Grill: 13kg
e. Auto transmission: 15kg
f. Engine upgrade to 150 BHP: 11kg.

...............so by my reckoning (as per European Legislation) you should plan on subtracting a further 180kg (I've excluded the auto transmission) but this figure also excludes any solar units on the roof too.

David, you've also mentioned that you'll place about 120kg in the garage so I reckon that equates to an actual load of 170kg on the rear chassis due to the distance of the mass from the rear axle.

I've just checked the price list for you and a Heavy Chassis @ 4.4T (which will also require the 150BHP upgrade @ £1,249.50) is £1,199.52, so a tad under £2.5K all in.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Wissel]

Thanks for the prices Andrew. As I will be going for the 150bhp option anyway, the extra £1.2k to make it a 4.4T seems a bit of a no brainer?

I realised I'd missed the solar off after posting last night. I checked the weights, and the panels I like (same as I have now) are 7kg each for 100w. I'll probably fit 4 of these.

You mentioned saving on road tax in a post above - this is something I haven't thought about.

Just tried Googling what I'm likely to pay with the new rules, but I'm a little lost.

Don't suppose you know what I'll pay (roughly) on 3.5t, 4.65t and 4.4t?

Thanks as always,
David

EDIT - Don't worry about the road tax question. I remembered a time before the internet where we used a phone to ask questions Tax on the 4.4t would be £160 per year (I'm told)

 

[Blue Knight]

Hi David,

Your 3.65/ 3.85/ 4.25/ 4.4T ( that's all of the Pilote variations) vehicle will be registered as a PHGV so by my reckoning it will cost you £165/annum based on current charges.

You will no doubt be aware of the new annual charge for vehicles exceeding the £40,000 purchase value threshold. This would work out as an extra £310 per year (for 5 years) payable on top of your standard tax band,

I've mentioned the new system above (FYIO) but you will NOT have to pay the extra £310 per year because Pilote, as the converter, does not apply a CO2 figure to the final Certificate of Conformity; therefore the vehicle will be considered as 'standard taxable' and you'll just pay the £165 a year or whatever the UK PLC decides to hike it up too in the future.

My last van (66-plate) was registered @ 3.5T and the road tax was £235/year.

Back later ;-)

Andrew

EDIT: Added 3.85T

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[Wissel]

I Think I'm getting somewhere (thanks to all the help in this thread)

Decided the 4.4T chassis makes sense for us, but not sure if the wheels need changing to get 4.4T?

Also not sure if the polyester sides are a worthwhile upgrade?

Apart from that, I think the attached PDF is pretty close (has all weights and costs listed).

What have I missed?

The accessories I'll fit myself.

 

[Blue Knight]

That's a pretty good list - I like lists, lol.

Just two points from me:

You want to be careful about ordering imitation leather or else you might drip out through your socks in the summer. It looks great but the missus and I have specifically avoided it at all costs. It's good for cleaning purposes but other than .............. er, nope.

Your list specifies a rear view camera @ £200 but just be warned that this will not include the 7" monitor which sits on your front dash. Unless you do the fitment yourself then you're looking at £408.17 which includes the two cameras too.

I also think you will need to go for the alloy wheel option to cope with the 4.4T chassis. I'm not sure that the pressed steel is up to the job but I await to be corrected.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Wissel]

That's a pretty good list - I like lists, lol.

Just two points from me:

You want to be careful about ordering imitation leather or else you might drip out through your socks in the summer. It looks great but the missus and I have specifically avoided it at all costs. It's good for cleaning purposes but other than .............. er, nope.

Your list specifies a rear view camera @ £200 but just be warned that this will not include the 7" monitor which sits on your front dash. Unless you do the fitment yourself then you're looking at £408.17 which includes the two cameras too.

I also think you will need to go for the alloy wheel option to cope with the 4.4T chassis. I'm not sure that the pressed steel is up to the job but I await to be corrected.

All the best,

Andrew

Cheers Andrew.

The imitation leather is because it's easy to clean
We have a dog so this is necessary otherwise the dog smells will seep into the fabric over time. I know what you mean about how hot it can get - we'll have blankets over them anyway as we do now at home.

Regarding the reversing camera, it won't be the Pilote one. I built the system in our current van with twin cameras and 7" monitor for about £100. I'll do the same in this van - but with a bit better cameras.

The alloy wheel thing is what I believe as well - just not sure. I'll speak to a dealer to get clarification on this - but not a big issue either way and the alloys aren't silly money

Still have to work out approximately how much added weight is over the rear axle, but should be fine I think with the 4.4T chassis (which was a great suggestion by the way). I'll work this out when I can be bothered.

Getting quite a bit sorted now, considering we haven't seen the van in the flesh yet
Although I'm sure we'll both like it.

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[Blue Knight]

Hi David,

One thing that I forgot to mention was the GRP sides. You will need to clarify with the dealer on whether you have a choice to have them or not. I've not seen a UK-specced van in the UK without them so I was assuming that they were standard fit (and a nice little earner for Pilote too).

Can't advise on that one - sorry.

Very best,

Andrew

 

[Jagtazman]

We have a Rapido but out next van will be either Rapido or Pilote.
We saw this the other week at SMC and feel in love with it, if we were in the market for a new van atm I would have snapped it up
Might not be to everyones taste but both me and wife went "wow" we love it and both agreed its one of the best we've seen for quite awhile. Ticks all our boxes.

 

[Dave K]

We have a Rapido but out next van will be either Rapido or Pilote.
We saw this the other week at SMC and feel in love with it, if we were in the market for a new van atm I would have snapped it up
Might not be to everyones taste but both me and wife went "wow" we love it and both agreed its one of the best we've seen for quite awhile. Ticks all our boxes.

Looks a lovely van, to be honest though I'm not having the best communications with SMC at the moment, I'm actually getting no communication from them at all, I'm really hoping they're not the 'now we've got your money then it doesn't matter' type of dealer

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[Dave K]

Cheers Andrew.

The imitation leather is because it's easy to clean
We have a dog so this is necessary otherwise the dog smells will seep into the fabric over time. I know what you mean about how hot it can get - we'll have blankets over them anyway as we do now at home.

Regarding the reversing camera, it won't be the Pilote one. I built the system in our current van with twin cameras and 7" monitor for about £100. I'll do the same in this van - but with a bit better cameras.

The alloy wheel thing is what I believe as well - just not sure. I'll speak to a dealer to get clarification on this - but not a big issue either way and the alloys aren't silly money

Still have to work out approximately how much added weight is over the rear axle, but should be fine I think with the 4.4T chassis (which was a great suggestion by the way). I'll work this out when I can be bothered.

Getting quite a bit sorted now, considering we haven't seen the van in the flesh yet
Although I'm sure we'll both like it.

We've opted for imitation leather, mainly because we have 2 black Labs but also the fabric seats were too pale in our opinion, I think the imitation leather seats will be much easier to keep clean.

 

[Jagtazman]

Looks a lovely van, to be honest though I'm not having the best communications with SMC at the moment, I'm actually getting no communication from them at all, I'm really hoping they're not the 'now we've got your money then it doesn't matter' type of dealer

Feedback I have heard about SMC is nothing but praise. Were very helpful when visited at their site and NEC when we were looking. No first hand experience but not one of the ones I would avoid. maybe others on here have first hand experience.

 

[Dave K]

Feedback I have heard about SMC is nothing but praise. Were very helpful when visited at their site and NEC when we were looking. No first hand experience but not one of the ones I would avoid. maybe others on here have first hand experience.

In my experience a majority of dealerships are like that when you're looking to buy, it's the after sales that makes all the difference in my opinion.

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[Wissel]

We've opted for imitation leather, mainly because we have 2 black Labs but also the fabric seats were too pale in our opinion, I think the imitation leather seats will be much easier to keep clean.

Tbh Dave we are thinking about having the imitation leather, but getting some nice fabric covers for them made up. I like the look of the IL, but we like our comfy sofas at home and want the van as homely as possible as it will be full-time. Plus we'll be able to whip the covers off to chuck in a washing machine.

Of course when we have guests we can whip the covers off and have lovely looking clean seats

We will see

 

[Jands]

reading this post with interest as thinking if getting the island bed model, P740C.
Wanting to get a 125 motorcycle in the garage though, weight between 100Kgs to 120Kgs depending on bike.
The heavier chassis is that a Fiat or Alko chassis?
At £1.2k appears to be a good idea.
I am not getting it for another 20 months so at the moment are getting ideas together.
Will have to stop at a showroom and have a chat.

 

[Wissel]

reading this post with interest as thinking if getting the island bed model, P740C.
Wanting to get a 125 motorcycle in the garage though, weight between 100Kgs to 120Kgs depending on bike.
The heavier chassis is that a Fiat or Alko chassis?
At £1.2k appears to be a good idea.
I am not getting it for another 20 months so at the moment are getting ideas together.
Will have to stop at a showroom and have a chat.

The heavier chassis is made by Fiat - don't think the Alko is an option on the Pacific series (at least it's not on the price list).

It's available on the Galaxy A-Class version - but looks around a £7k option.

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[Blue Knight]

Looks a lovely van, to be honest though I'm not having the best communications with SMC at the moment, I'm actually getting no communication from them at all, I'm really hoping they're not the 'now we've got your money then it doesn't matter' type of dealer

That's a shame Dave. I'll be following this to see how the situation unfolds.

Good luck,

Andrew

 

[krclink]

Hi guys, reading this thread with great interest as we have just taken delivery of a P740C sensation with uprated chassis to 3650kgs some 5 weeks ago. In the last 3 weeks have fitted several extras such as Tyron bands in wheels, TPMS, Status digital tv aerial, extra 95ah leisure battery and box, 3M water filter and 10meter rewindable water hose. The van came with GB pack, solar panel, front fogs, two reversing cameras and sleeping table in lounge. Because this w/e was our first proper trip out, I decided to weigh at local weighbridge. So, with myself and my wife sitting in front, half a tankful of water, half a tankful of diesel, limited food, usual clothes and books etc in the van, and 2 anti gravity chairs, a couple of plastic toolboxes with a small assortment of tools in the locker, the axle weights are as follows. Front=1560Kgs. Rear=1900Kgs, and total was 3460Kgs. These figures mean that the locker capacity in teh back isn't as good as it first appears. We were told early on in the buying process that capacity in the back was about 150Kgs, but this I think is way out. To me, Pilote should have had the fresh water tank and the waste water tank swapped over. But I suppose it depends on how much water you want to travel with.We do a lot of "wild camping", therefore like to take water with us.

 

[Blue Knight]

KC, that's a very good summary indeed.

Can I ask if it was the dealer that mentioned the 150kg load capacity for the boot as I've never heard anyone (or read anything) that has specified the load limit.

That said, if you take the 100kg figure which you still have left for the rear axle and then add that to the weight of the kit in your garage, then add the water mass difference (half tank of 65ltrs minus 20ltrs (MIRO figure) then in theory the garage will take in excess of 150kg.

You make a good point regarding the position of the water tanks but it's obvious that a compromise is needed between the carriage of water and the load you place in the rear compartment.

All the best,

Andrew

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