Duff new battery? Advice please (1 Viewer)

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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We have just taken delivery of 4 Dyno 30XHS 130Ah batteries from JustCarBatteries. These are deep cycle or traction batteries which we have not used before. Because we ordered 4 they were sent to us direct from the importer on a pallet, having been dry charged and then filled with electrolyte for dispatch.

On measuring the voltages on arrival before charging, three were around 12.3v but one was at only 10.1v. We phoned JustCarBatteries to report this and were told to put it on charge for 3 hours and then ring them back with the voltage (which we are in the process of doing).

To my mind, a battery at 10.1v is a damaged/dead/defunct battery. So my question is, would you be happy with a new battery that arrived reading 10.1v? Is this something specific to deep cycle batteries? If the other three arrived at 12.3v, why was this one down as low as 10.1v?

Any advice gratefully received. :)
 
Feb 8, 2014
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when you've given the 3 hours charge, take the reading then leave for a full hour and check any drop.
 
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maz

maz

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Thank you all for your thoughts. My instinct is to reject it too. Nothing will be done now until Monday but I will monitor the voltage over the weekend now that it's off charge.
 

hilldweller

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Since you have the time, fully charge. Find a headlamp bulb, normally 55W so 55/12.5 = 4.4A.

Somehow wire to battery and log voltage every hour. Post results.

Basically 130Ah / 4.4A should last 30 hours but we normally use half. So what is interesting is the voltage at 15 hours. I think it should be 12V / 12.1V.

Or just sling it back.

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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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Since you have the time, fully charge. Find a headlamp bulb, normally 55W so 55/12.5 = 4.4A.

Somehow wire to battery and log voltage every hour. Post results.

Basically 130Ah / 4.4A should last 30 hours but we normally use half. So what is interesting is the voltage at 15 hours. I think it should be 12V / 12.1V.

Or just sling it back.
The battery charger is now fully charging one of the other new batteries. JustCarBatteries told us to leave the probably duff one off charge and see what it has dropped to by Monday morning.

In the interests of science I would like to do the hourly thing with the headlamp bulb but my will to live would fast disappear over the horizon. :D

I suspect, come Monday, it will be rejected.
 

hilldweller

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I suspect, come Monday, it will be rejected.

Best move anyway, you will never have faith in it now.

That is one hell of a battery bank. 130 x 4 = 520Ah.

A normal charger is about 20A so would take 13 hours for a 50% charge.
A single 100W solar, say 5A for 8h in Spain would in the order of 7 days.

So what mega charging regime do you have ?

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pappajohn

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Sounds to me like it was never dry charged to start with, or at least only partially charged.
To me, a 3 hour charge isn't going to put much in unless you have a very high output charger.
Even a 20a charger will just about bang in 50% but as it won't reach absorption charge it will soon drop off.
 
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maz

maz

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Best move anyway, you will never have faith in it now.

That is one hell of a battery bank. 130 x 4 = 520Ah.

A normal charger is about 20A so would take 13 hours for a 50% charge.
A single 100W solar, say 5A for 8h in Spain would in the order of 7 days.

So what mega charging regime do you have ?
These batteries are for the catamaran which is going to have 560w+ of solar.

At the moment we are charging one battery at a time using the Sterling 20A charger that I kept from the Burstner. The final set up on the boat will be larger than that.
 
Nov 18, 2011
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Reject the battery it's defo a shorted or duff she'll I would be expecting beaten 20/30% refund on the the total purches costs for the inconvenience
Bill

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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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Sounds to me like it was never dry charged to start with, or at least only partially charged.
To me, a 3 hour charge isn't going to put much in unless you have a very high output charger.
Even a 20a charger will just about bang in 50% but as it won't reach absorption charge it will soon drop off.
Thanks for that. I'll get mr maz to reply to your post as it's getting a bit beyond my limited battery knowledge. :blush:
 
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maz

maz

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Yes, it has sails as well as twin Yanmar Diesel engines. The solar panels will be fitted onto a gantry across the stern. This seems to be a common arrangement so I'm guessing the sails don't interfere much - but I am only guessing. Mr maz has years of experience of solar on boats so again I'll get him to reply for you. :Smile:

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Sep 20, 2015
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Proper job. Does this thing have sails ? I wonder how badly they interfere with solar.
Solar panels work very well on catamarans particularly when mounted on a stern gantry, on some points of sailing the panels will be shaded by the sails particularly when sailing towards the sun.
 
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Sounds to me like it was never dry charged to start with, or at least only partially charged.
To me, a 3 hour charge isn't going to put much in unless you have a very high output charger.
Even a 20a charger will just about bang in 50% but as it won't reach absorption charge it will soon drop off.
Having complained to the supplier, they requested the voltage after a 3 hour charge, this has now been given to them together with a 30 minute rest voltage (14.08 and 12.69). Neither of these voltage prove very much. They then asked for a voltage after 3 hours rest but I told them that I would ring them on Monday with that voltage and also a much more useful voltage after 36 + hours rest. The 3 hour rest voltage was 12.6v which if it stays stable and the battery passes a load test then perhaps the battery is ok? But I'm still unhappy that it should arrive direct from JCB's supplier having had the electrolyte added just before shipment and being delivered to us at such a low voltage.
We will see on Monday!
 

jonandshell

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I would be suspicious of the flat battery too.

The only way to be sure is to fully charge all of them and check the open circuit voltage against the specific gravity of the electrolyte of ALL the cells.

Tables are published on the Web, but I would like to see 1.260 or so at around 12.7 volts and 20 degrees C.
If it's any consolation, our Dynos are still in great condition after some 8 1/2 years now. You have been a bit unlucky.
 
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I would be suspicious of the flat battery too.

The only way to be sure is to fully charge all of them and check the open circuit voltage against the specific gravity of the electrolyte of ALL the cells.

Tables are published on the Web, but I would like to see 1.260 or so at around 12.7 volts and 20 degrees C.
If it's any consolation, our Dynos are still in great condition after some 8 1/2 years now. You have been a bit unlucky.
Only just seen your reply, thanks for the advise and we will do just that and see what the tests show.
 
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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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I would be suspicious of the flat battery too.

The only way to be sure is to fully charge all of them and check the open circuit voltage against the specific gravity of the electrolyte of ALL the cells.

Tables are published on the Web, but I would like to see 1.260 or so at around 12.7 volts and 20 degrees C.
If it's any consolation, our Dynos are still in great condition after some 8 1/2 years now. You have been a bit unlucky.
Thanks for that, Jon. It's very useful information. (y)

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Feb 27, 2011
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Thank you all for your thoughts. My instinct is to reject it too. Nothing will be done now until Monday but I will monitor the voltage over the weekend now that it's off charge.
What was the result of the test? Any progress?
 
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maz

maz

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What was the result of the test? Any progress?
On Saturday, 4 hours after it was taken off charge, it was reading 12.60v. Sunday morning 12.53v, evening 12.52v. Monday morning 12.50v, evening 12.47v.

It is now back on charge for a longer time than the 3 hours the supplier told us to do, until the battery charger goes to float charging. Then we will run more tests.
 
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maz

maz

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Update

Just to let everyone know that after we finally managed to get a numerically scaled hydrometer (first one arrived broken) we were able to prove that the suspect battery was indeed duff - 2 of the cells were down. :(

Have to say that we were not at all impressed with JustCarBatteries (who also trade as Autopoint). We have still not received a proper invoice from them despite chasing them many times and being fobbed off. When we finally insisted that they email the invoice to us while we were still on the phone, they sent a made-up-on-the-spot one with no invoice number or delivery address. We even had to tell them how much we had paid so they obviously had no record of the transaction! Seems to me like something dodgy is going on there and we have since heard of other people never receiving invoices from them. :mad:

The issue has been resolved today by the wholesaler of the batteries - EasyStart Ltd of Corby. When they heard about the problems we were having with JustCarBatteries, they stepped in and have just replaced all 4 batteries with new ones - personally delivered by Graham their Sales Executive. So a big thank you and much kudos to EasyStart. (y)

It seems that EasyStart also sell direct to the public (which I wasn't aware of) so we will be sure to get any future batteries from them. :)

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Feb 27, 2011
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Thank you so much for the Update Maz. Excellent news and Well done EasyStart Ltd... Now that is great customer service considering you are not their direct customer. That is above and beyond so much Kudos to EasyStart.

I will look them up when I am ready to buy my new battery bank...
 
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Feb 9, 2008
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Update

It seems that EasyStart also sell direct to the public (which I wasn't aware of) so we will be sure to get any future batteries from them. :)
I've just had a look at their website. Their appears to be no performance specification for their leisure batteries which |I find extremely odd. I was looking in particular for the number of cycles at a specified DOD (Depth Of Discharge) and could not find any. Myself! I would not go near a new leisure battery without having this knowledge.
 
Feb 9, 2008
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I have just come off the phone with them. In essence the manufacturer does not provide this information about their battery performance. When I asked why, I was told because battery performance was related to charging levels etc and and this is the main reason this information is not provided. A well spoken gentleman who was polite and well mannered.
I am of the view their battery is about as much use as a chocolate tea pot !

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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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I've just had a look at their website. Their appears to be no performance specification for their leisure batteries which |I find extremely odd. I was looking in particular for the number of cycles at a specified DOD (Depth Of Discharge) and could not find any. Myself! I would not go near a new leisure battery without having this knowledge.

We went for the Dyno deep-cycle traction batteries which came highly recommended by @jonandshell . That's good enough for me! :)
 
Feb 27, 2011
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I don't look at manufacturers performance specs on batteries as they are nearly always non standardised or performed under perfect conditions.

I look at the actual weight of the battery compared to it's capacity. A general rule of thumb is the more lead the better when it comes to longevity.
 
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Feb 9, 2008
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I don't look at manufacturers performance specs on batteries as they are nearly always non standardised or performed under perfect conditions.

I look at the actual weight of the battery compared to it's capacity. A general rule of thumb is the more lead the better when it comes to longevity.
Yes! Agreed , to a point. The 110 Leisure battery with the above is 22Kg which IMO is on the light side.
There's always this for customers who are not sure and need some independent reassurance about their battery performance.

http://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx

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