shock horror,man fined for breaking the law (1 Viewer)

Enword

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It's just a standard SORN fine don't know why it made the papers really, but I'm Mortal so wont condemn him because I forget shit like most do, as for if it was stolen that's his loss don't effect me, I could never get my sidecar insured (worth more than MH & trailer put together!) but I took that risk, so if it got nicked I'd have had to start from the bottom again, that's were I started at first.:)
 

Tootles

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OK, the law is the law...........However, insurance required when there is no intention to drive, it's parked on your own property, and you own it? It's just another money making scam.
Lets say he did intend to drive it, he would have been caught in no time. Trouble is, SORN was brought out before all the instant computer recognition stuff, but instead of scrapping SORN, they kept it going in order to make more money, nothing less. :(

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May 16, 2014
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he does not have to insure the vehicle if he does not intend to take it on the road, merely SORN it and that process is free. Although I don't totally agree with the SORN process it cannot be regarded as a way of making money iof it is free to do. If people choose not to comply with the law they risk being fined - their choice!
 
Feb 27, 2011
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OK, the law is the law...........However, insurance required when there is no intention to drive, it's parked on your own property, and you own it? It's just another money making scam.
Lets say he did intend to drive it, he would have been caught in no time. Trouble is, SORN was brought out before all the instant computer recognition stuff, but instead of scrapping SORN, they kept it going in order to make more money, nothing less. :(

I have to disagree with you on this one. There were too many people who weren't insured. The insurance database is helping to counter this growing problem. Having a database is no good if there is no way of enforcing it.

The simple fact is we can't afford 10'000 police officers roaming the roads looking for uninsured vehicles. So the best way to do this is to say ALL vehicles must be insured end of. The only exemption is for vehicles that are SORNED. I think it is a simple solution that saves a lot of time and effort and will ensure more vehicles are insured.

If you make a SORN declaration and are then caught driving the vehicle there is a fine of up to £5,000...

So automatic fine for no insurance, except if SORNED. Driving while SORNED upto £5,000. Seems like a pretty good system to me.
 

GWAYGWAY

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I got fined a £100 for a bike that was SORN'd, but it was a box of bits being rebuilt in the future sometime. I thought (then not now) that if it was sorned then it was, OK, but it ran out and needed doing again, the tax for the bike was only £17 They have changed it now and it remains sorn'd until retaxed again.

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Nov 18, 2011
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What we nead to do is bring back the death penalty especially for this kind of crime
Hang them hight I say
Bit of over reaction from sums of the poster me thinks
Bill
 
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Tootles

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Although I don't totally agree with the SORN process it cannot be regarded as a way of making money iof it is free to do.
Of coarse its a way of making money!! :(
Situation with SORN: Fred Notax is the registered owner ABC 123. They know it's not taxed, because he hasn't coughed up the money. So they check the SORN records, and lo, Fred hasn't declared. Now he becomes a cashcow. Oh look, Fred has his motorhome parked on his property. Fined £80 for not declaring...........(and they employ people to do this).

Situation without SORN. Fred still hasn't taxed his vehicle. No one knows if he still has it or not. It could be on a tour of Outer Mongolia. It dosent matter if it's sat on his garden, it's off the road, therefore no road tax, no income for 11 Downing Street.
And so, every transgressor of SORN makes money to the tune of at least 80 quid, maybe more if they can prove hes been on the road with it, and that's a plus to the no insurance fine.

The simple fact is we can't afford 10'000 police officers roaming the roads looking for uninsured vehicles. So the best way to do this is to say ALL vehicles must be insured end of. The only exemption is for vehicles that are SORNED. I think it is a simple solution that saves a lot of time and effort and will ensure more vehicles are insured.
Your missing the point. The majority of uninsured vehicles roaming around are intentional. The young kid who hasn't got 2k to spare, but he drives anyway. The car with false plates. The guy who buys a car and gives the wrong details to the ex owner. The stolen car where the thief dosent give a monkeys anyway. All hard to catch, all hard to stop.
And so, they pick on the easy target. Some guy forgot because he was away when the letter to renew came, or no letter came at all, who lives at the address where his vehicle is registered, and more to the point, has the cash to pay.
The only time you will EVER see 10,000 police officers roaming the streets would be during a strike of The National Union of Chinese Take Away's, when they were at a loss of what to eat. (y)

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bigtwin

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There's a common misconception that you insure vehicles. You don't, you insure drivers to enable them to use vehicles on the public highway.

The police exercise dubious authority when they confiscate vehicles that don't show up on the 'insurance database'. I was stopped once for driving my wife's (second) car as it showed as uninsured. I was driving on my third party entitlement from my own insurance.

Some insurers will allow only allow you to drive your on your third party entitlement if the vehicle you're driving is already insured to be driven by someone else. However there are insurers that do not have this stipulation.

The requirement for a car to be insured by someone else before you can legitimately drive it is not a legal requirement but may be a condition of your own insurance policy.

Ian

Edit:
If I'd read the article before posting, I might have gleaned that things may have changed in 2011! It was pre 2011 that I was stopped and when I last explored the issue!
 

Silver-Fox

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The mistake he made was saying he forgot to declare :rolleyes:

The delivery of post isn't what it used to be if you know what I mean :)
 
Aug 18, 2014
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& as @Tootles said + the Itinerants clone them, or run with no plates on either towed or towing. Wait till you get the "automatic renewal" added to the "continuous insurance" :LOL:Which is what we have here & you used to have to notify 2 months in advance of renewal to cancel it. Just been changed last year to 1 month.

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Feb 27, 2011
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Of coarse its a way of making money!! :(
Situation with SORN: Fred Notax is the registered owner ABC 123. They know it's not taxed, because he hasn't coughed up the money. So they check the SORN records, and lo, Fred hasn't declared. Now he becomes a cashcow. Oh look, Fred has his motorhome parked on his property. Fined £80 for not declaring...........(and they employ people to do this).

Situation without SORN. Fred still hasn't taxed his vehicle. No one knows if he still has it or not. It could be on a tour of Outer Mongolia. It dosent matter if it's sat on his garden, it's off the road, therefore no road tax, no income for 11 Downing Street.
And so, every transgressor of SORN makes money to the tune of at least 80 quid, maybe more if they can prove hes been on the road with it, and that's a plus to the no insurance fine.


Your missing the point. The majority of uninsured vehicles roaming around are intentional. The young kid who hasn't got 2k to spare, but he drives anyway. The car with false plates. The guy who buys a car and gives the wrong details to the ex owner. The stolen car where the thief dosent give a monkeys anyway. All hard to catch, all hard to stop.
And so, they pick on the easy target. Some guy forgot because he was away when the letter to renew came, or no letter came at all, who lives at the address where his vehicle is registered, and more to the point, has the cash to pay.
The only time you will EVER see 10,000 police officers roaming the streets would be during a strike of The National Union of Chinese Take Away's, when they were at a loss of what to eat. (y)

You are mostly correct. However the kid who can't afford the insurance will now be fined automatically. Fred will be fined if he doesn't have the car anymore because he hasn't notified DVLA who he has sold it to. If he still owns it and it is in Outer Mongolia he still either needs to, register it in Mongolia and get it marked as an export. Have valid insurance bought in this country that will cover him for Mongolia or SORN it.

The vast majority of uninsured drivers do not go around with false plates, they simply rely on the fact that the police are unlikely to catch them. This is now no longer possible. They own the vehicle and have to have insurance. If the vehicle isn't registered to them and on false plates they will get hammered if caught.

You have two choices, tax and insure your vehicle as per the law or SORN it. Sorn your vehicle and you don't have ot pay for either so no cash to the Gov. Break the law and you get fined. I don't see this as a cashcow.
 

Tootles

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However the kid who can't afford the insurance will now be fined automatically.
No he wont. He dosent 'own' the car.........
They own the vehicle and have to have insurance. If the vehicle isn't registered to them and on false plates they will get hammered if caught.
The telling word there Grom is 'IF'
There are around 37,000 uninsured drivers on the road, with about 1.2 million cars with no known 'owners'.
Break the law and you get fined. I don't see this as a cashcow.
All fines are 'cashcow' They are just a way of making money. Otherwise, why fine someone? As a deterrent? Hardly.
Cars that are confiscated are supposed to be 'crushed' In actual fact, the majority are sold at auction, the money being, supposedly, invested in 'police resources'. o_O
Around £38 BILLION is made from vehicle excise duty every year.......
Roughly £700 million is collected from parking fines.
Back in 2007, £ 114 million a year was raised in speeding fines.
The DVLA have refused to say how much cash they make each year from SORN.
The police made £1.6 million pounds in the sale of confiscated cars this year so far.
And you dont see that as a cashcow?? :Eeek:
 
Aug 18, 2014
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I think you've misread your article Toots. I nearly did with this one. From 2015 & says that the amount is 1million uninsured, down by 50% from 2005
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May 16, 2014
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Still can't get my head around the fact that this individual failed to do something he is required to do by law, he then gets penalised for it....So?

Fines for these and most other offences, go directly into the "General Fund" and are therefore used by Treasury to finance Government priorities or necessities - they do not find their way directly into DVLA coffers.

If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime.
 

Tootles

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Still can't get my head around the fact that this individual failed to do something he is required to do by law, he then gets penalised for it....So?
No argument there........Read my first post.
Personally, I dont find it 'offensive' to forget something. However, I do find it 'offensive' to milk everyone blind because they forgot.
If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime.
What? Do what time?? Crime?? Dear oh dear. Crime is someone being shot, raped, murdered, held up by a man armed with a large knife, stealing lead..............This is just a way of raising cash. Lets think of another one. (y)
"Unless your name begins with the letter Z, you will be fined £100". Rather then "Unless you declare that your car/truck/mechanically propelled vehicle is not taxed, and you dont let us know, even though we really do know, because you didnt send us any money, we will fine you £80 for failure to declare something we are already aware of". Dick Turpin made it shorter, he said "Your money or your life".
 

Enword

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What? Do what time?? Crime?? Dear oh dear. Crime is someone being shot, raped, murdered, held up by a man armed with a large knife, stealing lead..............This is just a way of raising cash. Lets think of another one. (y)
"Unless your name begins with the letter Z, you will be fined £100". Rather then "Unless you declare that your car/truck/mechanically propelled vehicle is not taxed, and you dont let us know, even though we really do know, because you didnt send us any money, we will fine you £80 for failure to declare something we are already aware of". Dick Turpin made it shorter, he said "Your money or your life".
Exactually, trouble is we see people get caught for things far more serious than this locally & they get off with a caution :mad:

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Tootles

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Exactually, trouble is we see people get caught for things far more serious than this locally & they get off with a caution :mad:
Of coarse they do! And the reason?? THEIR SKINT!! (y) There's no profit in fining someone on income support. However, there is a fair killing to be made from a guy with a car. Heres an example.Ten scroats rob ten different houses. They get 'cautioned'. Man with car parks up to get a paper.....Fined £70.00
 
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It's simple really. Any crime that can be detected by computer, where the penalty is fixed and requires no decisions to be made by a human, where the letter to the offender can be created by computer, and compliance or not can be detected by computer, is easy to police and offers a regular financial and statistical return. More serious (almost any other) crime requires money and effort with no guaranteed result or financial return. Where would you aim your limited resources?
 

PeteH

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Whilst I can see that the intention (apart from getting MORE tax out of the motorist?) Was to prevent "illegal" use. I have a great deal of sympathy with this person, because they NO LONGER sent out advises!! when (re) SORN is due. (which IMV is tantamount to ENTRAPMENT) .

I have a classic car in my Garage, undergoing long term Refurbishment, IF (and I am in that "age group" when forgetting is endemic!!) I forget, I get a fine, There are no "reminders" any more!!. THAT, really pisses me off!.

AND. The "Itinerants". "No Fixed Abode". Try to register Vehicle. DVLA, DVLA say NFA, No can do. They then have Carte Blanche to use the roads without Tax or Insurance!!. TRY to remove their Vehicles? and THEY scream "Uman rites" and get all sorts of Lawyer type scrotes and "bleeding Hearts" protesting their case!.

Pete

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Jaws

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Observations. ( read personal opinions LOL ! )

The article is yet another :dm: much ado about nothing, caused by a failure to employ proper reporters who can find REAL news.


The person whining is a bit of a muppet.. If you have a vehicle you should know the rules that govern its use and ownership
If you canna be bothered to follow them and get fines DO NOT whinge..

Would the person accept someone giving him a smack round the ear as ok if the 'smacker' said he did not know it was wrong or illegal ?
No.. of course not..

Double his fine for being a whiney whinging twonk !! :cheers: :rofl:
 
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Whilst I can see that the intention (apart from getting MORE tax out of the motorist?) Was to prevent "illegal" use. I have a great deal of sympathy with this person, because they NO LONGER sent out advises!! when (re) SORN is due. (which IMV is tantamount to ENTRAPMENT) .

I have a classic car in my Garage, undergoing long term Refurbishment, IF (and I am in that "age group" when forgetting is endemic!!) I forget, I get a fine, There are no "reminders" any more!!. THAT, really pisses me off!.

AND. The "Itinerants". "No Fixed Abode". Try to register Vehicle. DVLA, DVLA say NFA, No can do. They then have Carte Blanche to use the roads without Tax or Insurance!!. TRY to remove their Vehicles? and THEY scream "Uman rites" and get all sorts of Lawyer type scrotes and "bleeding Hearts" protesting their case!.

Pete
They no longer send out reminders because you only have to SORN once.
 

GWAYGWAY

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The DVLA does at the moment send out reminders for tax due, they sometimes do not, they do NOT have to send them and I think VERY shortly the practice will end, to save on the postal costs. Then how do you know when and if the tax has run out?
The disc being stopped was a very handy way of saving postal costs and printing and admin costs, All raise the bottom line and that is what it is about. DVLA bosses get paid a rather handsome bonus when they get more money in.

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