Paper(less?) (1 Viewer)

Feb 5, 2014
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A recent thread about BritStops & France Passion sidetracked into "paper v electronic" data, so I'm offering this as an opportunity to air some thoughts.

With a ZX80, ZX81, BBC "B"micro I was an early adapter of personal computing. I currently have 2 laptops, a desktop, Hudl2 and iPad mini so am fairly well served.

I decided to tour "light" this year, with everything loaded on to the Hudl and got to the MonkeyHanger Rally in Hartlepool to discover a message: "Google Play Services has stopped working and needs updating". So while most folk enjoyed music in the pub I sat trying to fix my problem, using the WiFi and phone calls to my son, a computer engineer. Next day I went to my brother's office and did a hard reset then reloaded almost every app using his internet connection. It worked - for about 3 hours!

I then had a 7-day tour of Northumberland with no access to my Caravan Club Apps, Camping Club Apps, CamperContact App, National Trust App, Banking Apps, etc. Fortunately I did have my old TomTom and my BritStops book. I even managed to locate a THS in Coldstream but more by good luck than anything else.

Needless to say, we now carry paper copies at all times (and the Hudl has performed faultlessly since a second hard-reset!) - Gordon
 

hilldweller

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Needless to say, we now carry paper copies at all times (and the Hudl has performed faultlessly since a second hard-reset!) - Gordon

Any many of say, "don't leave without a map that you have looked at".

What you have experienced, just think what happens when Putin orders the internet wrecked globally !!
 
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Robert Clark

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Personally I prefer to use an app than a book.
Using Britstops as an example, I suspect that much of the £25 cost of membership goes towards printing and posting the book itself.
The book as such is just a vehicle for carrying the directory information. In other words you'd probably not read it from cover to cover for the fun of it.
I wonder how manny people have been put off joining Britstops purely because of the cost of the book?
If there was an App I'm sure that the cost of membership could be dramatically reduced, which would encourage new members and retain existing ones. Plus the info they sell would be easier to use in an app form too.
They could keep the book option for those who prefer the printed medium, however i suspect that over time it would dwindle in popularity - an example of this is Yellow Pages directory.


Edit: France Passion is a nightmare to use, especially if you don't have a great knowledge of French geography.
An app would make viewing sites on a map, or filtering those that suit your requirements considerably easier than the book.

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Bobby22

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Personally I prefer to use an app than a book.
Using Britstops as an example, I suspect that much of the £25 cost of membership goes towards printing and posting the book itself.
The book as such is just a vehicle for carrying the directory information. In other words you'd probably not read it from cover to cover for the fun of it.
I wonder how manny people have been put off joining Britstops purely because of the cost of the book?
If there was an App I'm sure that the cost of membership could be dramatically reduced, which would encourage new members and retain existing ones. Plus the info they sell would be easier to use in an app form too.
They could keep the book option for those who prefer the printed medium, however i suspect that over time it would dwindle in popularity - an example of this is Yellow Pages directory.


Edit: France Passion is a nightmare to use, especially if you don't have a great knowledge of French geography.
An app would make viewing sites on a map, or filtering those that suit your requirements considerably easier than the book.
The problem with an internet based Britstops would be that the info could be shared with non members and the whole idea would self destruct.

I am a member of the ccc and much prefer to have the magazine, it lets you see sites and events that you may not 'search' for with the app.

I also carry a map and sat nav. In some cases the sat nav would have you drive along A roads that are twisty narrow carraigeways rather than adding a few miles to get you there quicker by motorway, most notably in the lake district.
 
R

Robert Clark

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The problem with an internet based Britstops would be that the info could be shared with non members and the whole idea would self destruct.
.
How would people share a paid for app?
 
D

Deleted member 29692

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I don't rely purely on digital for anything. All it takes is no signal or a device to fail and if you have no paper backup you're stuck.

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Feb 9, 2008
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On the paperless theme I have just renewed my wife's passport, the only paper involved was the envelope to post the old one to the Passport Office. Photo was taken with my phone. The whole exercise was simple, quick and very efficient compared to when I renewed mine several years ago. Top marks!
 
D

Deleted member 29692

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I can see other issues with having Britstop as an app only based service.

Firstly it would have to be multi platform - iOS, Android and Windows Phone as a minimum. The cost of developing a proper, professional looking, genuinely secure, easily updatable app across three platforms would shock people who don't already have a rough idea of how much these things cost. It would be hugely more expensive than the cost of printing books.

Secondly Steve and Mandy don't charge hosts to be in the book and don't sell advertising. Their only income from the scheme is from the charge for the book. So Mr C this:

If there was an App I'm sure that the cost of membership could be dramatically reduced,

becomes an issue. What would you suggest as a reasonable cost for an app, one that you would happily pay? If it was much less than the current cost of the book then I doubt it would be worth the time they spend on the project unless there was a massive and immediate increase in membership which I can't see happening.

Personally I think something like Britstops is always going to be a bit of a niche thing. There are relatively few motorhomers in this country and of those even less are interested in such a scheme.

Take this site as a representative sample of motorhomers (Yes I know it probably isn't)

How many of the members here honestly and truly believe that it is only possible to use their motorhomes on a full service club site with electric and "facilities" and would never dream of parking anywhere but on a campsite. Quite a few.

Add the FLT brigade who refuse to pay for anything and are proud of never spending any money in the places they visit to that and the minority reduces even more.

Paid apps are fine when they can be mass marketed. Sadly I don't think Britstops, or any of the similar schemes, are mass market.

I'm sure someone will offer CamperContact as a counter to the above. Sorry but I don't accept that. It is aimed at a very different, much larger market.
 
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Robert Clark

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I can see other issues with having Britstop as an app only based service.

Firstly it would have to be multi platform - iOS, Android and Windows Phone as a minimum. The cost of developing a proper, professional looking, genuinely secure, easily updatable app across three platforms would shock people who don't already have a rough idea of how much these things cost. It would be hugely more expensive than the cost of printing books.

Secondly Steve and Mandy don't charge hosts to be in the book and don't sell advertising. Their only income from the scheme is from the charge for the book. So Mr C this:



becomes an issue. What would you suggest as a reasonable cost for an app, one that you would happily pay? If it was much less than the current cost of the book then I doubt it would be worth the time they spend on the project unless there was a massive and immediate increase in membership which I can't see happening.

Personally I think something like Britstops is always going to be a bit of a niche thing. There are relatively few motorhomers in this country and of those even less are interested in such a scheme.

Take this site as a representative sample of motorhomers (Yes I know it probably isn't)

How many of the members here honestly and truly believe that it is only possible to use their motorhomes on a full service club site with electric and "facilities" and would never dream of parking anywhere but on a campsite. Quite a few.

Add the FLT brigade who refuse to pay for anything and are proud of never spending any money in the places they visit to that and the minority reduces even more.

Paid apps are fine when they can be mass marketed. Sadly I don't think Britstops, or any of the similar schemes, are mass market.

I'm sure someone will offer CamperContact as a counter to the above. Sorry but I don't accept that. It is aimed at a very different, much larger market.
But the set up cost is a one off Nick, which would be offset against printing costs which are incurred year after year. Furthermore I'm sure that an app would attract more foreign users, as different languages could be accommodated.
I suspect that in time that unless Britstops invests in keeping pace with modern technology that they will sadly dwindle and die - having been replaced by a modern competitor, who is prepared to make the necessary investment in offering customers what they want and expect.

ps - I'd happily pay £10 for a niche app, maybe more.

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OP
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But the set up cost is a one off Nick, which would be offset against printing costs which are incurred year after year. Furthermore I'm sure that an app would attract more foreign users, as different languages could be accommodated.
I suspect that in time that unless Britstops invests in keeping pace with modern technology that they will sadly dwindle and die - having been replaced by a modern competitor, who is prepared to make the necessary investment in offering customers what they want and expect.

ps - I'd happily pay £10 for a niche app, maybe more.

Sounds like you've just found yourself an opportunity to make your next fortune :LOL::LOL::LOL:.

ALL of my apps were downloads - I would be very unhappy to rely on accessing the internet when away from home: my smartphone is on payg and I usually top up with £10 every 4-6 months.

Gordon
 
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Robert Clark

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Sounds like you've just found yourself an opportunity to make your next fortune :LOL::LOL::LOL:.

ALL of my apps were downloads - I would be very unhappy to rely on accessing the internet when away from home: my smartphone is on payg and I usually top up with £10 every 4-6 months.

Gordon
Many a true word spoken in jest
I can only imagine there are IT graduates everywhere looking for a tired offline business model to turn into an app.
All it would take is them getting hold of a list of UK pub managers - a simple email asking them to sign up online and they're in business.
It's only a matter of time.
 
D

Deleted member 29692

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But the set up cost is a one off Nick, which would be offset against printing costs which are incurred year after year. Furthermore I'm sure that an app would attract more foreign users, as different languages could be accommodated.
I suspect that in time that unless Britstops invests in keeping pace with modern technology that they will sadly dwindle and die - having been replaced by a modern competitor, who is prepared to make the necessary investment in offering customers what they want and expect.

ps - I'd happily pay £10 for a niche app, maybe more.

The development cost is a one off. The hosting costs and either paying someone to update or CMS access depending on their IT skills area ongoing.

Let's just assume for a minute that the overall the costs are the same. At £10 the membership would need to treble to keep the same income. I just don't think there are that many potential subscribers out there.

If it would be so obviously better and more profitable as a digital service why is nobody doing it? Why don't you have a crack at it?

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Feb 16, 2013
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Personally I prefer to use an app than a book.
Using Britstops as an example, I suspect that much of the £25 cost of membership goes towards printing and posting the book itself.
The book as such is just a vehicle for carrying the directory information. In other words you'd probably not read it from cover to cover for the fun of it.
I wonder how manny people have been put off joining Britstops purely because of the cost of the book?
If there was an App I'm sure that the cost of membership could be dramatically reduced, which would encourage new members and retain existing ones. Plus the info they sell would be easier to use in an app form too.
They could keep the book option for those who prefer the printed medium, however i suspect that over time it would dwindle in popularity - an example of this is Yellow Pages directory.


Edit: France Passion is a nightmare to use, especially if you don't have a great knowledge of French geography.
An app would make viewing sites on a map, or filtering those that suit your requirements considerably easier than the book.
Don't know if you have the currant France passion but they have now got the coordinates on the stops in the book, no more difficult than finding an aire, now but do agree there are not that many where you want to be.
 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
All it would take is them getting hold of a list of UK pub managers - a simple email asking them to sign up online and they're in business.
It's only a matter of time.

You end up with people like that searchforsites moron who just go around scraping databases and put them online for free.

Who would bother wasting time and money developing an online service only for something like that to happen.
 
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Robert Clark

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Don't know if you have the currant France passion but they have now got the coordinates on the stops in the book, no more difficult than finding an aire, now but do agree there are not that many where you want to be.
It's finding the right page that I struggle with, not knowing which ' department' I need. Could be just me being thick

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R

Robert Clark

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You end up with people like that searchforsites moron who just go around scraping databases and put them online for free.

Who would bother wasting time and money developing an online service only for something like that to happen.
With a paid for app, and no poi downloads the data owner is probably quite secure.
 
Jul 5, 2013
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As I understand it the Britstop has to agree to only allow members to stay. The Book and sticker is a way that the owner checks you are members. So more like a CL/CS type arrangement. Different with the Aires - Campercontact has no dealings with them and they will let anybody on.
 
Feb 16, 2013
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You end up with people like that searchforsites moron who just go around scraping databases and put them online for free.

Who would bother wasting time and money developing an online service only for something like that to happen.
@easy think you are on mate

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D

Deleted member 29692

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As I understand it the Britstop has to agree to only allow members to stay. The Book and sticker is a way that the owner checks you are members. So more like a CL/CS type arrangement. Different with the Aires - Campercontact has no dealings with them and they will let anybody on.

Exactly right.

I wonder how many of the locations that are part of membership only organisations, i.e. CLs, CSs and Britstops, have been individually and personally contacted by the operator of this website for permission for their details to be made freely available to non members of the organisation concerned.

I know for certain that several Britstop hosts, whose premises are listed on said website, only agreed to sign up for the scheme because they understood that their details would only be available to members. They specifically don't want non members turning up and I know that in at least one case if the owner finds out his details are published anywhere other than in the book he will withdraw from the scheme and not let anyone stay there.
 
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The problem with an internet based Britstops would be that the info could be shared with non members and the whole idea would self destruct.

I am a member of the ccc and much prefer to have the magazine, it lets you see sites and events that you may not 'search' for with the app.

I also carry a map and sat nav. In some cases the sat nav would have you drive along A roads that are twisty narrow carraigeways rather than adding a few miles to get you there quicker by motorway, most notably in the lake district.
There are no motorways in the Lake District?
 

Zigisla

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As I understand it the Britstop has to agree to only allow members to stay. The Book and sticker is a way that the owner checks you are members. So more like a CL/CS type arrangement. Different with the Aires - Campercontact has no dealings with them and they will let anybody on.
As a new - This year and very avid user of BritStop scheme, I have never had my sticker checked and not even been asked to take my book into the hosts site. Quite often we have the book as we will plan the following day in the pub. I find the book far better than an app, as we can plan a route around then stops. That said, I haven't used any app for places to stop, so cannot comment on how easy any app would be to plan a route. What I would like is an A5 spiral bound book as I find the current style doesn't lay flat for checking phone numbers or reading the comments or approach routes easily. That said, if nothing changed, I would still join year after year. I do use Search for sites as I find looking at an area on the computer easy and when I find where to go often the pub or stop is listed as a BritStop and I check in the book. If it is in there I'll phone ahead and if not, I don't bother as the info is so often wrong.
 
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Bobby22

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There are no motorways in the Lake District?
There is the M6 on the eastern border and if you use sat nav to take you to Ulverston (coming from Scotland) it would have you coming down the A592 through the Lake District instead of the motorway then trunk roads adding hours onto your journey.
(with the sat nav set to fasted route).

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How would people share a paid for app?
It only takes one person with a small amount of knowledge to extract the data. It's not something outside my abilities..... One upload to a file sharing network, someone posts a link on a couple of facebook pages and it is out there.

I would not do this, however there are people far less scrupulous than me.

On the app front. Apple retains 30% of the fee you pay to download an App, 70% goes to the app owner. So the £10 you would pay would see £7 going to Britstops. Out of that they have to pay for the costs of the business, developing the App which I can assure you is not a one off cost. Each time a new version of IOS comes out there will need to be updates to the software. Customers will find bugs or demand additional features. Software development is not a one hit wonder followed by kerching...
 

PhilG

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Paper copies every time.... Smartphone went down for 2 days on our last trip, all the stuff you need goes with it.

I print everything , flight boarding cards , hotels, rental car agreements , and put them in the order I need them in my trip wallet, so when I rock up at Stansted, the first thing is my car park confirmation, then my fast track, then boarding, then rental car , then hotel etc.

Important stuff I duplicate (flight stuff etc) and keep separate.

I am getting increasingly pissed of with sat nav, and Google maps and have gone back to proper maps , or at least a proper look on a map when going where I want to go, after numerous wild goose chases and dead ends.

I had a guy on a flight the other day and his phone died between the gate and the plane and they didn't want to let him on , even though he had been checked 50m before , luckily a guy in the front row lent him a phone to log on to hos account , else he would have been on the tarmac.

I wont use self scan, or self order and pay, as a matter of principle, refuse to shop online for stuff I can fetch myself, so I am a bit of a Luddite on the side.

Did 2 1/2 weeks in Germany with no TV at all, quite relaxing really
 

Langtoftlad

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I like both.
Apps are very good for instant access, when you know what you're looking for.
Paper is best if you're browsing, looking for inspiration.

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R

Robert Clark

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It only takes one person with a small amount of knowledge to extract the data. It's not something outside my abilities..... One upload to a file sharing network, someone posts a link on a couple of facebook pages and it is out there.

I would not do this, however there are people far less scrupulous than me.

On the app front. Apple retains 30% of the fee you pay to download an App, 70% goes to the app owner. So the £10 you would pay would see £7 going to Britstops. Out of that they have to pay for the costs of the business, developing the App which I can assure you is not a one off cost. Each time a new version of IOS comes out there will need to be updates to the software. Customers will find bugs or demand additional features. Software development is not a one hit wonder followed by kerching...

I wonder how long it would take somebody with a scanner and OCR software to copy the Britstops book?

I'm not agains books, but I suspect that the owners of business that rely purely on printing books are going to fall by the wayside if they ignore digital media.
 

Bart

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I subscribed this year for the 1st time to britstops and signed up for e.mail updates. I then made said update changes to the book that had been printed .......ages ago ... man there were so many updates.. an app surely is the way forward.. as for me I don't think I'll renew next year..
 
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We had Britstops a couple of years ago , never asked by anyone to see it, in fact we went to one , asked at the bar if it was ok to stop , no problem, went in later , mentioned Britstops, and the bar staff hadn't a clue what I was on about, just still useing the same book now(y)

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