Designers!!! (1 Viewer)

dave newell

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Oct 31, 2008
3,262
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Telford, Shropshire
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Home converted PVC
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26yrs
Along with pretty much anyone who has ever wielded a spanner in anger at a motor vehicle I frequently find myself cursing the designers, they seem to take some strange delight in making important parts as difficult as possible to get at. Well today I found what must be the ultimate design cock up.

Got a 2008 Dethleffs Advantage in for double service and replace the mains elements in the C series heater. Services were no great shakes (although it does have an EGR valve issue that is yet to be sorted) but sorting the heater has turned out to be a sheer bloody nightmare!

Getting the heater out is often the tricky bit but this one was exceptionally tough, 2.5 hours of blood, sweat, tears and a lot of cursing and sweraing, I even made up some new swear words just for this pile of Germanic nonsense. The heater lives in a cupboard below the wardrobe but it has to be completely removed to replace the mains elements as they are buried deep inside the beast although its not a difficult job once the unit is on the bench.

So to remove the heater the wardrobe floor has to come out, it has a removable section but that only serves to show you where the heater is, its certainly not a big enough hole to get the heater through. So the wardrobe floor is screwed in place, but not from inside the wardrobe, nor is it screwed down to suporting rails. Ohhhh nooo0, that would be far too sensible. No the wardrobe floor is screwed in place through the sidewalls of the wardrobe, the forward side is not a problem, remove the cushions from the long sofa and pop out three plastic caps and there they are, unscrew them and one side of the floor is now loose but what about the other side? Well the fridge is on the other side and yes the stupid designers fitted the floor by the same means, screws through the sidewall so the fridge has to come out!

Extracting a fridge is not that difficult, disconnect the 12v and 230v connections and the gas, remove four screws from inside and with a bit of shoving, pushing and swearing out it comes. Great so now I can unscrew the other side of the floor and remove it................................no I can't! The moron who penned this fine piece of Teutonic cabinetry made the wall between fridge and wardrobe a double skin affair so the heads of the screws which hold the floor in place are obscured by the second skin of 9mm thick plywood AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

Some careful measuring allowed me to mark positions of the screws from inside the fridge housing (this of course assumes they would be at the same distances from the front of the cabinet as the other side), surprise surbloodyprise a pilot drill hit the screw heads in all three locations, opened the holes up to 10mm to clear the screw heads and at last I can get the screws out of the wardrobe floor and remove it! YEEFECKINHAA!

So now you'd think it would be easy to just disconnect the heater and remove it, well you'd be just as wrong as I was. The cupboard at the bottom of the wardrobe where Truma's finest lives is actually smaller than the heater it houses, the recirculating air motor actually passes through a missing section of wall and lives partly in the drawer space under the fridge. The flue connection fixings were either installed by a very well trained mouse with a super human level of grip or were simply connected to the heater before the walls were attached to the vehicle. The C series sits on a tripod of three legs which all get screwed to the floor, the front two are a doddle to get at but the rear one is under the mains connection box of the heater and completely obscured by the flue and heater outlet ducts which run in such convoluted routes its a wonder the warmth doesn't get lost trying to find its way out, honestly its like the maze out of Harry Potter!

Finally after 45 minutes of making up new swear words I had it all disconnected and ready to lift out.............................except I didn't, the mains connection cable wasn't long enough to allow the heater to be lifted out to disconnect it, not do-able in situ as the electrickery connection box of the heater is tight up against the wardrobe wall so it has to be at least part way removed to disconnect but the morons who assembled this Germanic jigsaw saw fit to cable tie the mains lead to all the pipes that are fastened to the floor every 2.5mm with pipe clips!

After 2 hours and 15 minutes I managed to get it to a position where I could disconnect the mains feed so time to lift it out finally............................err no not yet. The water system manifolds on both sides of the heater cupboard get in the way of lifting it out but the heater itself obscures some of the screws that hold said manifolds in place GGGGRRRRR!!! I'm really losing patience now.

So ten minutes fighting with the six screws on each water manifold and I finally got the barsteward out and onto the bench. Tomorrow morning I will replace the elements and clean the heater out and sometime tomorrow (after the days booked jobs are dealt with) I will do all this in reverse to put it all back together but rest assured there will be a supporting ledge fitted for the wardrobe floor to be screwed down into just so that whoever gets to work on this mother in future can save an hour or so and won't need to make up new swear words.

I'd rather change a timing chain on a Jaguar XJ12 than repeat this job!
So how's your day been?

D, :)
 
Jul 29, 2007
6,526
39,280
Ipswich
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32
MH
RV and PVC
Exp
30 years
Fine fitted a light and modified a shelf, no problems, all done in 60 mins. :D

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mjltigger

Free Member
Nov 12, 2014
1,619
2,672
Trowbridge
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34,213
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Autotrail Dakota Max
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2012
But to a price and to achieve that price they build it around itself so their own fitters and engineers get an easy life .. no thought for the poor sod who will end up fixing something later on. No doubt their own workshop manual quotes an outrageous price for the job based on how much furniture has to be removed. .
 
Feb 24, 2013
12,991
101,155
Bolsover, Derbyshire
Funster No
24,833
MH
Hymer S800
Exp
not long enough
I do hope that writing all this down has been as therapeutic for you as it has been informative (I don't think funny is appropriate) to read :)

You wait till I bring my Hymer over one day, you will soon forget this experience :LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

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dave newell

dave newell

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Oct 31, 2008
3,262
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Telford, Shropshire
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I do hope that writing all this down has been as therapeutic for you as it has been informative (I don't think funny is appropriate) to read :)

You wait till I bring my Hymer over one day, you will soon forget this experience :LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

Yes David, very therapeutic, along with a Bishop's Finger, a HobGoblin and a King Goblin I'm feeling better with every mouthful :)

And don't worry, Hymer's are simple enough :)

D.

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hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
605
36,108
Macclesfield
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5,089
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Zilch Mk1
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From Aug 2007
Along with pretty much anyone who has ever wielded a spanner in anger

We all sympathise and demand that every designed should be made to strip his design before it goes into production.

Caravans/motorhomes are just the worst case because ( he says for those who have not watched how they make them ) they fit all the big bits on the floor then fasten the walls on then fasten the roof on. A lot of what is inside will not fit through the doors.
 
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dave newell

dave newell

Free Member
Oct 31, 2008
3,262
4,369
Telford, Shropshire
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26yrs
Just had a proper chuckle, as we no longer do the outdoor shows we've decided to sell our old exhibition unit so I chucked it on EBay. Gave a thorough and honest description. It used to be trailer mounted but the running gear was shagged out so I chopped it off and put castors on it so it could be loaded onto my car trailer, because of this I described it as "demountable" which I thought was fair and clear. Its a ten foot by six foot by seven foot high box with a lift up flap along one long side and cupboards and seats inside. Just had a message this evening asking "Hello, been looking at your cabin listing and wondered how demountable it is and if it would "come apart" and fit into a van?"

I don't think he really understood the term "demountable"

D.
 
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dave newell

dave newell

Free Member
Oct 31, 2008
3,262
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Telford, Shropshire
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Home converted PVC
Exp
26yrs
We all sympathise and demand that every designed should be made to strip his design before it goes into production.

Caravans/motorhomes are just the worst case because ( he says for those who have not watched how they make them ) they fit all the big bits on the floor then fasten the walls on then fasten the roof on. A lot of what is inside will not fit through the doors.

When the first generation Trigano Tribute PVCs hit the market the fridge could not be serviced in situ but it was deeper than the gangway between the kitchen and washroom so couldn't actually be removed for servicing either. Dethleffs once made a compact coachbuilt with French bed and a raised dinette floor opposite the kitchen. The kitchen floor space was narrower than the length of the fridge door so it couldn't even open to 90 degrees and it was impossible to remove the salad drawer at the bottom. The same Dethleffs van had the wardrobe in the rear of the shower/toilet room and the mains incoming socket and RCD in that very same wardrobe in the shower room, naked body, lots of water and a few sparks, sounds like an interesting case for Quincy M.E.

D.

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dave newell

dave newell

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Oct 31, 2008
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Telford, Shropshire
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Here's a photo of the carnage just before it finally came out.
20160628_164439.jpg
 

Petest

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Jan 23, 2016
199
185
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41,435
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Coachbuilt
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Now that had me in stitches.

Keep us informed of the progress getting it back - how's your memory as you get older?

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dave newell

dave newell

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Oct 31, 2008
3,262
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Now that had me in stitches.

Keep us informed of the progress getting it back - how's your memory as you get older?

As long as I can remember the routing of the maze of outlet ducts I'll get by, other than that I can usually remember where I live and how to get home from the pub :)

D.
 
Jan 28, 2008
10,104
18,259
Dovercourt, Harwich, UK
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1,353
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Renalt burstner
Exp
7 years campers before that
you know what they say dave
if it was easy they'd all be doing it
for near impossibility try changing the heater on a saab 900s rumour has it its the first item on the production line and the car is built round it

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TheBig1

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Nov 27, 2011
17,509
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Dave, you made that ordeal sound like the gynaecologist who wallpapered his hallway through the letterbox on his front door
 
Aug 6, 2013
11,941
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Kendal, Cumbria
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27,352
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Le-Voyageur RX958 Pl
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since 1999
Along with pretty much anyone who has ever wielded a spanner in anger at a motor vehicle I frequently find myself cursing the designers, they seem to take some strange delight in making important parts as difficult as possible to get at. Well today I found what must be the ultimate design cock up.

Got a 2008 Dethleffs Advantage in for double service and replace the mains elements in the C series heater. Services were no great shakes (although it does have an EGR valve issue that is yet to be sorted) but sorting the heater has turned out to be a sheer bloody nightmare!

Getting the heater out is often the tricky bit but this one was exceptionally tough, 2.5 hours of blood, sweat, tears and a lot of cursing and sweraing, I even made up some new swear words just for this pile of Germanic nonsense. The heater lives in a cupboard below the wardrobe but it has to be completely removed to replace the mains elements as they are buried deep inside the beast although its not a difficult job once the unit is on the bench.

So to remove the heater the wardrobe floor has to come out, it has a removable section but that only serves to show you where the heater is, its certainly not a big enough hole to get the heater through. So the wardrobe floor is screwed in place, but not from inside the wardrobe, nor is it screwed down to suporting rails. Ohhhh nooo0, that would be far too sensible. No the wardrobe floor is screwed in place through the sidewalls of the wardrobe, the forward side is not a problem, remove the cushions from the long sofa and pop out three plastic caps and there they are, unscrew them and one side of the floor is now loose but what about the other side? Well the fridge is on the other side and yes the stupid designers fitted the floor by the same means, screws through the sidewall so the fridge has to come out!

Extracting a fridge is not that difficult, disconnect the 12v and 230v connections and the gas, remove four screws from inside and with a bit of shoving, pushing and swearing out it comes. Great so now I can unscrew the other side of the floor and remove it................................no I can't! The moron who penned this fine piece of Teutonic cabinetry made the wall between fridge and wardrobe a double skin affair so the heads of the screws which hold the floor in place are obscured by the second skin of 9mm thick plywood AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

Some careful measuring allowed me to mark positions of the screws from inside the fridge housing (this of course assumes they would be at the same distances from the front of the cabinet as the other side), surprise surbloodyprise a pilot drill hit the screw heads in all three locations, opened the holes up to 10mm to clear the screw heads and at last I can get the screws out of the wardrobe floor and remove it! YEEFECKINHAA!

So now you'd think it would be easy to just disconnect the heater and remove it, well you'd be just as wrong as I was. The cupboard at the bottom of the wardrobe where Truma's finest lives is actually smaller than the heater it houses, the recirculating air motor actually passes through a missing section of wall and lives partly in the drawer space under the fridge. The flue connection fixings were either installed by a very well trained mouse with a super human level of grip or were simply connected to the heater before the walls were attached to the vehicle. The C series sits on a tripod of three legs which all get screwed to the floor, the front two are a doddle to get at but the rear one is under the mains connection box of the heater and completely obscured by the flue and heater outlet ducts which run in such convoluted routes its a wonder the warmth doesn't get lost trying to find its way out, honestly its like the maze out of Harry Potter!

Finally after 45 minutes of making up new swear words I had it all disconnected and ready to lift out.............................except I didn't, the mains connection cable wasn't long enough to allow the heater to be lifted out to disconnect it, not do-able in situ as the electrickery connection box of the heater is tight up against the wardrobe wall so it has to be at least part way removed to disconnect but the morons who assembled this Germanic jigsaw saw fit to cable tie the mains lead to all the pipes that are fastened to the floor every 2.5mm with pipe clips!

After 2 hours and 15 minutes I managed to get it to a position where I could disconnect the mains feed so time to lift it out finally............................err no not yet. The water system manifolds on both sides of the heater cupboard get in the way of lifting it out but the heater itself obscures some of the screws that hold said manifolds in place GGGGRRRRR!!! I'm really losing patience now.

So ten minutes fighting with the six screws on each water manifold and I finally got the barsteward out and onto the bench. Tomorrow morning I will replace the elements and clean the heater out and sometime tomorrow (after the days booked jobs are dealt with) I will do all this in reverse to put it all back together but rest assured there will be a supporting ledge fitted for the wardrobe floor to be screwed down into just so that whoever gets to work on this mother in future can save an hour or so and won't need to make up new swear words.

I'd rather change a timing chain on a Jaguar XJ12 than repeat this job!
So how's your day been?

D, :)
Gynaecology training inadequate then? :D
 
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dave newell

dave newell

Free Member
Oct 31, 2008
3,262
4,369
Telford, Shropshire
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Home converted PVC
Exp
26yrs
Well the barsteward's all back in and working fine and all the cabinetry is as good as new too. I even put a supporting bar under the wardrobe floor and screwed down into it so that IF it ever needs to come out again the fridge can at least stay put. Still clocked in at six hours for the whole job with testing everything afterwards. Not so much swearing today and I'm told the skin will grow back soon.

D.

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ambulancekidd

Funster
Sep 23, 2014
10,298
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Ayrshire Scotland
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33,478
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Swift Kon-Tiki 640
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Since 1964 Gosh that makes me feel old.
I'd rather change a timing chain on a Jaguar XJ12 than repeat this job!
So how's your day been?

Been there, seen that, done that & got the tee shirt, wow it had to be seriously difficult to compare it to jobs like that. Just think of the money you'd have made from a swear jar lol.

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grumps147

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Jun 6, 2010
1,838
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Between
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MH 12 yrs -Tent/Caravan 49 years
My designer award goes to the 2015 Scout, and similar Autotrail models, bathroom and toilet designer. Thumbs up for the large shower you can actually shower in. But, they must have been 4'6" tall to use the toilet.

I nearly clicked on the like emoticon, but decided I didn't like what you went through, nor did I find the process funny. But your writing Dave was brilliant, now that did make me smile.
 
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dave newell

dave newell

Free Member
Oct 31, 2008
3,262
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Telford, Shropshire
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4,733
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Home converted PVC
Exp
26yrs
"I nearly clicked on the like emoticon, but decided I didn't like what you went through, nor did I find the process funny. But your writing Dave was brilliant, now that did make me smile."

Thanks for the compliment ref the writing, its good to see it enjoyed for what it is. As for liking the OP or finding it funny, I think that would be ok, I get a few tasks that are difficult and it all helps to generate writing material plus I do get paid for it of course. ;-)

D.
 
Aug 14, 2013
572
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Département 87
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27,512
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Profile
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Since about year 2000
I suppose not many of us realise that our "mobile" homes are built n a manner to suit the construction methods - from the middle outwards. The PVCs are built from the front towards the rear, one side at a time. I am sure not much (if any) thought is given to how items can be maintained with any degree of ease. I have been on two factory visits now, in France, and that seems to be the way things are done.

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