Cyclists vs. Motorists.... (1 Viewer)

[Bulletguy]

Knowing that many motorhome owners also make use of cycles, albeit on a fairly infrequent level, what are your views on this?

Motorists should be blamed for accidents with cyclists even if it's not their fault, says Government advisor | Mail Online

Afraid i couldn't find any other link except the Dail Wail but as an ex-cyclist myself i have very strong views on it.

Back in my 'super fit' teenage youth days i was a member of a cycling club and regularly attended road race meets. Often there would be as many as thirty or forty of us but even in smaller groups we still had 'unwritten rules'. On the open road we would ride two, sometimes three abreast, but the guys bringing up the rear were responsible for keeping a lookout for any traffic coming at which they would shout up, "car"....and we would all automatically form into single file.

Even in a small group of four or five of us out training we did the same. But this doesn't appear to be the practice of todays cyclist.

I also lose count of the numerous cyclists riding main roads at night with absolutely zero lighting on their bikes.

Interestingly this article makes comparison with outher european countries where this idea is already in place and works. But they fail to mention one very important point. Cyclists there, have to pay tax and the cycle also has to be registered (similar to a vehicle). I think insurance is left up to the individual but the tax and registration is a legal requirement.

 

[adenough]

I've never heard of a tax and registration for cyclists in any other country. Are you sure? How would that possibly work as bike do not carry number plates and how do you tax childrens bikes and that old bike in the shed? I am a keen cyclist and regularly go out on club touring runs and the rules of yesteryear that you mention still apply and are used on all runs. Do not categorise all cyclists as the same as the ones you see riding recklessly on pavements and jumping red lights. Just like motorists and I imagine MH drivers there are good and bad amongst us all.

 

[Cavendish]

IMHO it's a crazy proposal. :thumbdown:

There are some terrible cyclists about like the woman who left it until the last minute to scoot across the pedestrian crossing [when the traffic lights were on green] on a dual carriageway in Coventry yesterday. Whole family in the car and I was forced to brake because she couldn't be bothered to wait! Why was she riding on the pavement anyway??!

Then you have the motorist who pulls out in front of Matt [because surely all cyclists must be travelling slowly] and nearly ends up with him sprawled across their bonnet. Oh and the itinerants [polite and pc word ] who think it's funny to drive round and punch cyclists as they go by. :Angry:

Swings and roundabouts.

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[camper69]

I would agree with it.

If it would mean that some motorist keep a keener eye out for cyclist then that would be good.

Yes of course it would mean that some motorist/insurer will have to pay out even if they are not at fault but this should be tiny compared to more motorists giving more respect to cyclists.

And yes I know that some cyclist should not be let out on even a kids tricyle

Derek

 

[Bulletguy]

I've never heard of a tax and registration for cyclists in any other country. Are you sure?

Switzerland certainly do unless they've abandoned it recently. All cycles there carry a small registration plate on the rear. Tried to google a link for you but just keep getting places for cyclists to visit in Switzerland!

True you cannot tar all with the same brush but unfortunately the aggression of todays cyclist simply did not exist back in my day. It was Respect with a capital R then! After all, a car is much faster and a lot bigger so as a cyclist the very last thing you want is an 'arguement' with a vehicle!

 

[bazfergy]

I think this item has just been used to fill space,it isn't even being considered by ministers.

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[Bulletguy]

I would agree with it.

If it would mean that some motorist keep a keener eye out for cyclist then that would be good.

Ever tried to spot a cyclist riding at night with no lights?
Not only is it illegal, it's plain idiotic and suicidal!

 

[camper69]

After all, a car is much faster and a lot bigger so as a cyclist the very last thing you want is an 'arguement' with a vehicle!

Exactly so if it slows down when around cyclists then that has to be good surely.

Derek

 

[Cavendish]

I'm unsure if these proposed rules have made the Highway Code or not yet. Anyway if motorists kept them in mind it would prevent some collisions.

“Do not overtake a cyclist if you may have to stop soon afterwards for traffic queuing, traffic control or to park”.

“Leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking a cyclist and more on higher speed roads, in high winds or in adverse weather conditions”

“Do not overtake a cyclist shortly before a road narrowing or pedestrian island. If in doubt, wait and follow the rider through the feature.”

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[GJH]

In no circumstances would I support an idea which puts the blame on an innocent party. It is the same sort of "everyone assumed guilty until proved innocent" idea behind banning of bags in some shops because a minority of people are shoplifters.

I don't use my bike as often as I would like because the traffic on the roads I would have to use is much too busy for much of the time. There are certainly drivers around who do not take enough care but the answer is not to tar all with the same brush but to educate those who need it.

As mentioned in previous posts there are many cyclists who use the highway (I use that word rather than road because it includes footpaths where cycles are ridden illegally) carelessly and are thus to blame for some accidents. Unfortunately the careless include some club members these days. On journeys to work I used to regularly see a member of the Cleveland Wheelers riding through red traffic lights and on pavements (unfortunately I could never get close enough to identify him otherwise I should have complained to the club).

What I should like to see is cycle lanes designed into road schemes (separated from other traffic where possible) much more. It can be done, as places like Lancaster/Morecambe and Peterborough (two of the places we have visited in our van in recent years) have shown.

Graham

 

[Toffs-G]

I've never heard of a tax and registration for cyclists in any other country. Are you sure? How would that possibly work as bike do not carry number plates and how do you tax childrens bikes and that old bike in the shed? I am a keen cyclist and regularly go out on club touring runs and the rules of yesteryear that you mention still apply and are used on all runs. Do not categorise all cyclists as the same as the ones you see riding recklessly on pavements and jumping red lights. Just like motorists and I imagine MH drivers there are good and bad amongst us all.

I grew up in South Africa and all bicycles are licenced or were, annual charge that gives you a metal disk that attaches to the bike on any bolt. Disk has a unique number each year has different colour

Police used to check regularly outside the school gate, so we used to put the disk on the bolt under the saddle so when asked we could just lift up and point to our posterior - well as kids it seemed amusing - the traffic cop thinking they had caught us out.oh:

 

[mondo]

Just got back from France.. The Vendee did quite a lot of cycling, thankfully on their great cycle tracks, so not too much traffic to worry about.
We also stayed at the CC site in Peterboro (Ferry Meadows), and we cycled into the city centre a couple of times on the approved cycleways again no traffic, me and the guvnor ('er indoors) were talking about bikes and the consensus of opinion was

1 An approved cycle course and a form of certificate at the end

2 Pay for the certificate and a form of registration is issued

3 Display it on the bike

Whilst wandering round Peterboro, a guy on a bike riding on the pavement I may add, actually nearly ran me over and said "Get out me flipping way" and I cleaned that up, he was'nt one of your whizz kids on an ATB but a guy in his late 50s who should have known better!!
I ride a Halfords £85 special nothing serious but we can get about when we are on site and it's a bit "Green" too

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[dazzer]

Sounds like a great idea, lets beat all drivers with an even bigger stick than they get beaten with at the moment. After all they own a car and should quite rightly be jumped on from a very great height at ever opportunity.:thumb:

The idiots I see riding bikes (not all I hasten to add but enough to notice them) should be banned from ever riding or owning a bike again, the fact is, if this stupid idea ever gets off the ground it will open the floodgates for even more "No Win, No Fee" claims and fraudulent insurance claims . Sounds like a real good way to make a few quid but there again this government doesnt care what we think anyway so chances are it will happen next week!!oh:

 

[Douglas]

I would like to see some form of insurance for cyclists on the grounds that if a cyclist damages my vehicle through no fault of myself who pay's?

Doug...

 

[camper69]

I would like to see some form of insurance for cyclists on the grounds that if a cyclist damages my vehicle through no fault of myself who pay's?

Doug...

Whats insurance got to do with it. Even without insurance they are still liable and you still have to catch them

Derek

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[mattb]

The daily mail seem to be running a bit of a campaign against cyclists recently, what with celebrity chef and mail columnist's James Martin's comments the other week and this article.

I ride between 2,000 and 3,000 miles a year, get dressed in all the lycra gear etc etc. But absolutely do not sail through red lights, go the wrong way up one-way streets and intimidate pedestrians on pavements and zebra crossings. Not all cyclists are london couriers.

The fact is that every time i go out cycling some idiot driver tries to kill me, some deliberately. I've had punches thrown from moving vans and people driving at me, all unprovoked. I don't think that any of these proposals will change anything, but a more tolerant attitude of cyclist, similar to that in france would help.

 

[vwalan]

cyclists have to take on the view most motorbike riders have that all car drivers are blind. i,ve riden m,cycles since 16yr old been knocked off a few times fell off a few times as well . if cyclists looked after them selves instead of riding all over the road asking to be knocked off the world woud be a better place . for every good cyclist there must be 10 bad ones from all ages. possibly just like football it should be banned . we could start a new campaign with bus trips for cyclists n football supporters have plans here for some of adolfs buses n trains. ha ha,

 

[Jim]

As a motorist, I have never come close to hitting a cyclist, and in 15 years of driving most days in London I was never hit by a cyclist. Commuting for a couple of years between Reigate and Epsom as a cyclist I was hit twice and had to take evasive action at least 20 times to avoid being hit.

I appreciate how vulnerable the cyclist is, I give them plenty of room, I respect them as a legitimate road user, I don't think that I am better or more important and if I am held up for a few seconds, I am never stressed enough to let it worry me. If a cyclist is breaking the law or by riding on the pavement, and jumping lights then he should of course be penalised, however in my experience when there is a collision between bike and car, 99.9% of the time, the stressed out, impatient motorist is 100% to blame

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[Bulletguy]

I've had punches thrown from moving vans and people driving at me, all unprovoked.

Then why not bring a case of common assault against them? Nobody simply goes around whacking folk without reason.......unless mentally unstable, insane or on drugs.
It seems you cycle amongst very bad company and extremely strange people.

 

[mattb]

The Police wouldn't be interested unless they cause a personal injury.

 

[Jim]

Then why not bring a case of common assault against them? Nobody simply goes around whacking folk without reason.......unless mentally unstable, insane or on drugs.
It seems you cycle amongst very bad company and extremely strange people.

But they do BulletGuy, I know what he means. In my experience of greater London, you can cycle past standing traffic as they queue at the lights, the lights change, hold might hold the wrong car or van up for less than 4 seconds as you get out of their way and doors will open to try and get you off , fags will be flicked, just for holding someone up for a few seconds! Yes there are a few nutters on cycles, but far more, millions more, nutters in cars and vans.

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[RichardnGill]

I have both road and mountain bikes. I find I use my Mountain bikes far more these days due to the nutters on roads.

There are still some good roads for cycling on away from traffic but busy roads are a pain now.

I use to comute 32 miles a day in busy town traffic when I was daft, I found the harder you road the more respect you got, if you were polite you just got pushed into the gutter by the traffic.


Rich...

 

[adenough]

for every good cyclist there must be 10 bad ones from all ages.

Thats a very silly comment. If you cycled, motorcycled regularly you would be amazed at the antics of the average motorist. You see so much from two wheels and you are in always in a hightened state of awareness. You have to be. The number of vehicles jumping red lights these days is unbelievable. I find that at every set of lights there are at least 3 R L jumpers. Texting, talking on the phone. I totally lose count. I get verbal abuse at least once on every ride and at least 3 close calls. A cyclist will always come off worse in a collision with a car. How many of us follow the highway code and give a cyclist as much room as any other vehicle. No. Didn't think so. Bad cycling behaviour annoys good cyclists even more than motorists, as we quite rightly believe it gives us all a bad name. As is evidenced from some of the comments on these forums.
On the Swiss thing my very keen cyclist Swiss brother in law has no registration plates on his bikes so not sure on that comment. A racing cyclist would be very upset at the extra weight on his bike with these plates. Can't imagine Lance Armstrong carrying them. Although cycle couriers in Zurich have to be registered so many that is what you have seen.

 

[mattb]

cyclists have to take on the view most motorbike riders have that all car drivers are blind. i,ve riden m,cycles since 16yr old been knocked off a few times fell off a few times as well . if cyclists looked after them selves instead of riding all over the road asking to be knocked off the world woud be a better place . for every good cyclist there must be 10 bad ones from all ages. possibly just like football it should be banned . we could start a new campaign with bus trips for cyclists n football supporters have plans here for some of adolfs buses n trains. ha ha,

Comment deleted

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[vwalan]

i do ride a m,cycle often if at home i can say most days. i have 4 a 1500cc kwacker down to a monkey bike. but i still stand by my views on cyclists . its like they are in a day dream .what happened to what we learnt in cycling proficency. seems to not exsist anymore. if you ride a pushbike keep to your bike lanes n tracks it healthier .

 

[thehutchies]

A motorist, pulling away from his house, deliberately tried to knock one of my cycling mates off his bike.
That night we took a pile of A3 copies of pages from the Highway Code and a bucket of extra-strong wallpaper paste and we papered his car.

Appropriate revenge, we thought.

 

[pappajohn]

Switzerland certainly do unless they've abandoned it recently. All cycles there carry a small registration plate on the rear. Tried to google a link for you but just keep getting places for cyclists to visit in Switzerland!

True you cannot tar all with the same brush but unfortunately the aggression of todays cyclist simply did not exist back in my day. It was Respect with a capital R then! After all, a car is much faster and a lot bigger so as a cyclist the very last thing you want is an 'arguement' with a vehicle!

something like this BG

first story on page.

Link Removed

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[andycotterell]

It's a good idea

I think that a sufficiently high percentage of four-wheeled vehicle drivers are careless and dangerous enough for there to be some sort of extra protection for cyclists.

On a motorbike I can ride defensively, stay visible and, if necessary, use a burst of speed to avoid car drivers who are on the phone, configuring their GPS, chatting to someone in the back or just driving carelessly (all of which you will see on any single journey in The UK).
On a bicycle you just have to ride along hoping that drivers will do the right thing which can make it a scary experience.
When traffic was less and people were generally more considerate I always rode within the law. Now I am often forced to ride on the pavement or to go through red lights for my own safety.
If you watch carefully you'll see that most cyclists that jump red lights (i.e. most of them, in London, at least) don't go hurtling through cross-traffic; they either time it to coincide with a pedestrian crossing signal, or they go slightly ahead of the traffic if there's a clear enough gap in the phasing of the lights (and there typically is in London, because they've been lengthened recently to protect pedestrians from eager motorists).
They do this because pulling away at the same time as the surrounding traffic is very dangerous, so it's better, if possible, to be slightly ahead and hence more visible.

Now that the only driving offence to be enforced is speeding (as far as one can tell), car drivers are more reckless than ever and little is done, especially outside London, to cater for cyclists or to protect them. Painting a few lines to make "optional" cycle paths doesn't really help, and the fuss drivers make if you actually use those green cycle boxes at the front of the queue at traffic lights is quite something.
As a result, many cyclists feel disenfranchised and their respect for motoring law decreases accordingly.

My experience of cycling in countries where they give the benefit of the doubt to cyclists in the event of a collision is that all of the roads are safer for everyone. In Germany, for example, the apportionment / assumption of blame is based on size and power of the parties involved in a collision. If a car hits a pedestrian it's assumed that the car driver is at fault (because a car is heavier, faster, a bigger responsibility etc.), unless the car driver can prove otherwise. The same applies if a cyclist hits a pedestrian (cyclists fault) or if a lorry hits a car (lorry's fault). This means that the more power you have at your disposal, the more you are expected to take responsibility for it.
As a result, if I were to become unsteady on my feet and trip off the kerb and into traffic, I'd rather do it in Germany or Holland, where people know it's their responsibility to keep a look-out, than in The UK where I would be run-over amongst tut-tutting about rights of way and being late for work.

 

[pappajohn]

Then why not bring a case of common assault against them? Nobody simply goes around whacking folk without reason.......unless mentally unstable, insane or on drugs.
It seems you cycle amongst very bad company and extremely strange people.

Oh yes they do !

my stepsons had the pleasure twice in scarborough.
not a whack but a firm push sideways.

both times its been a spotty oik whos just graduated from a screaming demon sit 'n' screw moped to a first car.

three or four mates in his car with him and just 'for a laugh' they think its big and clever to push people off their bikes..

luckily Dan was not hurt either time but there are two large red wine stains on the road now from the bottles in his 'man bag' which got smashed.

 

[pappajohn]

i use my mountain bike for one purpose.......

going to the pub to collect my pickup after the night before:Blush:
saves a fortune on taxi's.

until recently there was no cycle path but we now have a split footpath, cycles one side, pedestrians the other.

before that i rode on the (suburban) footpath.... illegal, yes....safer than the road, definately.

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