Hymer B644 Fiat Ducato Gearbox lost 5th gear (1 Viewer)

[reynardracer]

Whilst travelling home from Silverstone last evening I lost 5th gear. By that I mean all other gears worked fine but when I tried to select 5th all I got was graunching! Obviously something has happened to the selector mechanism. Has anyone else suffered this issue. My Hymer is a 2000 model and has the Fiat 2.8 TD engine I think as I cannot find where the engine identification is.

Any recommendations for someone to fix this for me. I live in Twyford near reading.

Many thanks

Peter

 

[gus-lopez]

Common problem . Here is a list of threads on it.

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/search/21254931/?q=Ducato+fifth+gear&o=relevance&c[node]=15

If you are able to do it yourself by all accounts wouldn't take too long.

 

[DiggerJon]

Oh dear, but welcome to the Fiat "hunt the gears" club. I lost all but third and fourth in the middle of Belgium. It made getting home "interesting"! I'd love to be able help you, but you do have my sympathies.

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[teensvan99]

New 5th gear set about £ 160 and about the same to fit.

 

[reynardracer]

Thanks for the reply. Any idea where to buy the parts. I am being told they are becoming hard to find.

 

[gus-lopez]

These used to keep them.

https://www.axel-augustin.de/shop2/login.php?language=en&XTCsid=pihd06jaf4s4v518t8c5umfje0

There's a few on here.

http://www.parts.loc8apart.co.uk/nav/auto-part/Fiat/Ducato/Gearboxes-and-Gearbox-Parts.php

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[Irishrover]

Another supplier....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Duca...Ducato&hash=item2a68e1097f:g:pN4AAOSwintXRw0Y

 

[dave newell]

Whatever you do if this happens do not continue driving the vehicle, pull over as soon as safely possible and call your recovery service. I have an older Talbot Express in at the moment which dropped fifth going over the Milau viaduct last August, they didn't stop but continues on in fourth gear. Couple of miles later the box shat itself completely leaving them requiring uplift repatriation to home. With a second hand gearbox getting more difficult to locate and a new clutch and engine mountings there won't be change out of £850 for this job.

D.

 

[Lee27]

Hi Peter
My advice, from experience of losing 5th in our B644 last year, would be to remove the fifth gear cover in order to access that is damaged (after draining the oil). once the cover is removed you have access to all the relevant items; gears, synchro and selector fork.

once you know what's broken, go to the website below, put your VIN number in the text box provided and press the "Enter" key, this will display info about your vehicle, then press the Next button. from here navigate the menu system to determine the exact part number of what you require.

http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi...INDOW_ID=1&KEY=HOME&EPER_CAT=SP&MAKE=F&SBMK=T

Mine had stripped all the dog teeth of the gear, armed with the part number i got a replacement through my local garage, they actually ordered it through a ford dealer, strangely, price was about £180.

all the missing teeth from mine had gone behind a metal plate on the inside of the fifth gear cover, after removing them i used oil to repeatedly flush the box through, sieving each time, to get rid of any fragments. when finished fill with 2.7 litres of new oil.

hope this helps
Lee

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[scotjimland]

Indeed a worry for me.. but they say prevention is better than cure..

so what advice to prevent this happening.. ?

Apart from checking oil level, changing down and not straining 5th , letting the box warm up before using 5th..

or is that all futile and failure is inevitable ?

is it worth having it replaced before it fails ?

 

[The Wino]

I think this should have been in the "does the base vehicle make matter" thread!!

 

[gus-lopez]

Indeed a worry for me.. but they say prevention is better than cure..

so what advice to prevent this happening.. ?

Apart from checking oil level, changing down and not staining 5th , letting the box warm up before using 5th..

or is that all futile and failure is inevitable ?

is it worth having it replaced before it fails ?

& if you have an early vehicle with the dipstick, & marked with the lower level, then the actual oil level needs to be 20mm higher on the dipstick. & then mark it as so.

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[scotjimland]

if you have an early vehicle with the dipstick

2001 2.8 JTD .. if I have a dipstick .. where would I find it.. ? (no funny replies )

 

[Irishrover]

My 1999 2.8 IDTD has no dipstick, pretty sure yours wont either... @scotjimland

 

[DP+JAY]

I have set of fifth gears if you know the part no's or numbers of teeth you need

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[dave newell]

2001 2.8 JTD .. if I have a dipstick .. where would I find it.. ? (no funny replies )

Jim you don't have a gearbox dipstick, they were only on the MK1 (Talbot Express shape) Ducatos. I'd say leave it be. By no means do all Ducatos have a problem with fifth gear. A change of gearbox oil could be worthwhile though but no gaurantees against a failure.

D.

 

[scotjimland]

Thanks Dave ..

 

[Dave and Ginny]

Something that I worry about also on my 2002 2.8 JTD. As to whether it's possible to avoid what seems to be the inevitable I don't know; tend to drive as carefully as possible avoiding low speeds in 5th, don't labour it, changing down on long uphill motorway inclines. Not sure if it's helping or just a futile attempt!

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[reynardracer]

Another supplier....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Ducato-2-8-Diesel-Complete-5th-Gear-Kit-35-and-58-Teeth-1994-to-2002-/182148204927?fits=Car+Make:Fiat|Modelucato&hash=item2a68e1097f:gN4AAOSwintXRw0Y

 

[reynardracer]

I spoke to the supplier above

 

[reynardracer]

I spoke to the suppliers on eBay who asked if I had a 'M5GT' gear box. Said if I looked underneath I would find it duly marked. Much crawling later I found nothing. Any ideas or does it not matter.

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[Irishrover]

I spoke to the suppliers on eBay who asked if I had a 'M5GT' gear box. Said if I looked underneath I would find it duly marked. Much crawling later I found nothing. Any ideas or does it not matter.

Hi Peter....That kit does from 1994 to 2002 all 2.8 variants...i.e IDTD and JTD engines. Yours is a 2000 so it should be the job

 

[reynardracer]

Many thanks Irishrover

 

[Lee27]

The model id is half way up the back of the diff part and can be extremely difficult to see, i'll try to get an illustration when i get chance. i'm aware of about a dozen variants used across 94 to 06 many spanning the 2001/02 threshold (and know there are more), so would personally use the eper system to get the exact part numbers.

Lee

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[reynardracer]

Having bought the parts and watched so many 'You Tube' videos I am inclined to do this myself but I seem to have more parts in the kit then I see replaced. Is it possible to remove the end cover without draining the oil in order to access the damage as suggested by a previous post, or will the oil flow out of the end cover. I could of course jack the vehicle up. As an aside, I race a 1991 F3 car and regular change the gear rations on that car but not sure if this job is something to leave to the experts.

 

[Lee27]

Having bought the parts and watched so many 'You Tube' videos I am inclined to do this myself but I seem to have more parts in the kit then I see replaced. Is it possible to remove the end cover without draining the oil in order to access the damage as suggested by a previous post, or will the oil flow out of the end cover. I could of course jack the vehicle up. As an aside, I race a 1991 F3 car and regular change the gear rations on that car but not sure if this job is something to leave to the experts.

It's very easy and it sounds to me like you should do it yourself, i believe the oil will pour out if you try to remove the cover, it would have done on mine. in fact; even after draining a reasonable amount came out when i removed the cover.

can you provide your vin number so i can get a diagram of you gearbox?

Lee

 

[reynardracer]

ZFA23000005923488

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[Lee27]

Yours should look like the image below, which looks to me like the one you linked to

as can be seen, it is 58 * 35

Lee

 

[reynardracer]

Thanks Lee. Those parts look like the ones I have bought. If you drain the oil out where do you refill it from. The videos I have seen say something about the ability to refill through the reverse light switch!



regards
Peter

 

[Lee27]

Hi Peter

Yes; looking at the image below you would use item number 13 which is listed as the switch, mine was different and had a breather next to the switch which made it easier.
You may have a fill hole or level indicator that would identify the quantity to of oil to use, but my advice is to use the switch an fill with 2.7 liters, possibly/probably more than your manual states. as i'm sure you are aware from racing; only a small amount of oil will suffice from a lubrication point of view, but a larger quantity is required as it's critical for the oil to remove heat from the gears etc. over the years fiat have been increasing their recommendation on the amount of oil and mine actually states 2.7 (2002), but i've seen manuals that have been updated, and ones that state the older quantities.

Lee

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