Self perpetualating battery charger (1 Viewer)

O

Old Soldier

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It's some bloody early time in the morning and my ears are itching like mad..wax buildup problem....I know, too much information!!, and I was lying here with what's left of my brain racing away trying to work this one out.
Now knowing there are some techo's out there here is what might be a stupid question!!
If you have a couple of batteries in parallel, say 2 X 100ah and a decent inverter with a decent battery charger could you use that inverter and charger to recharge the same batteries that they are connected to if the inverter and charger are able to provide more power than they use from the batteries? Or is it an impossible equation ?
Hopefully I will be asleep before I get my first response!! :snooze:
 
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O

Old Soldier

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Not sure how that got into the "Home Education" section, sure I posted it under the technology heading but perhaps in the circumstances it's right!! Not sure how to change it anyway.
( Now here I am talking to myself....!!)
 

andy63

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Or is it an impossible equation ?
I think so...:) but would be nice.. The inverter can never be 100%
And will always draw more power than it can supply. And losses in the charger as well...
Hope you got to sleep..
I can't get back to sleep.:LOL:

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DBK

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It would achieve nothing as the energy it was putting back into the batteries would only be what it was taking out of them to do so. Essentially, the power would be disappearing up its own oozelem. To put it technically. :) And we all know about the oozelem bird.
 
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Try ear wax candles. Wife's friend was always dubious but now swears by them. No help with the perpetual motion theory but you might sleep better.

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DBK

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Ear_Candle.jpg
 
Jul 5, 2013
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Idea was suggested a while ago in another thread. There is no such thing as perpetual motion, it always needs an input of energy. Simply not feasible, for the reasons others have given.

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now if you put 300 to 400 watts of solar on the roof ?
free power input from sun/light and its only cost you £1000 to do nothing more than a £1 worth of mains electricity would do.
anyone know what happened to that perpetual motion device that was posted up quite some time ago needing some investment to make it a commercial proposition?
 
Jul 5, 2013
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now if you put 300 to 400 watts of solar on the roof ?
free power input from sun/light and its only cost you £1000 to do nothing more than a £1 worth of mains electricity would do.
anyone know what happened to that perpetual motion device that was posted up quite some time ago needing some investment to make it a commercial proposition?
But that's not perpetual motion because it has an energy input from the sun.
 

Jaws

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now if you put 300 to 400 watts of solar on the roof ?
free power input from sun/light and its only cost you £1000 to do nothing more than a £1 worth of mains electricity would do.
anyone know what happened to that perpetual motion device that was posted up quite some time ago needing some investment to make it a commercial proposition?

how much !!
A tad under £300 for my 320w array, including regulator, cables and brackets..

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O

Old Soldier

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Firstly thanks to @Jim ? for moving the thread. Thanks to those that answered, even at such early hours.
Most were my thoughts exactly, taking out more from the battery than can be supplied back however I'm suprised that in this day and age technology is not such that we can generate more than we use.
Anyone know what the wattage is for charging a battery compared to the wattage used to run the inverter and charger?. I guess that's a variable question dependant on how flat the battery is in the first place.
Anyway, something to think about provided the thread does not go off track!!
 
D

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Most were my thoughts exactly, taking out more from the battery than can be supplied back however I'm suprised that in this day and age technology is not such that we can generate more than we use.

We can, just not with an inverter - it doesn't generate anything.

An inverter is nothing more than a step up transformer - it takes power in at one voltage and outputs slightly less power at a different voltage.

It's no different in that to any other transformer - the ones on your bathroom spotlights, the one that charges your laptop, the yellow ones that are used for tools on sites. None of them are 100% efficient.
 
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O

Old Soldier

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Try ear wax candles. Wife's friend was always dubious but now swears by them. No help with the perpetual motion theory but you might sleep better.

Looks interesting but what happens when you turn over in your sleep!? Although our bed is fire retardant, my luggholes are not!!

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Old Soldier

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now if you put 300 to 400 watts of solar on the roof ?
free power input from sun/light and its only cost you £1000 to do nothing more than a £1 worth of mains electricity would do.
anyone know what happened to that perpetual motion device that was posted up quite some time ago needing some investment to make it a commercial proposition?

But that's not perpetual motion because it has an energy input from the sun.

As I'm not asking for " perpetual motion", more "perpetual energy" would it be possible to combine my Inverter and Battery Charger with a small solar panel to produce sufficient current to charge the batteries and overcome any difficiency in power loss and therefore charge the batteries quicker than on solar alone?
 

jonandshell

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But what about using a charger which is more efficient than the inverter?

If you had a 80% efficient inverter and a 90% efficient charger, the difference is a 10% increase! Therefore at the end of the night, the charger would have lost 10% less energy than the inverter, therfore a net increase in battery charge!:D





PS I know it doesn't work like that, I AM joking!:)
 
Jul 5, 2013
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As I'm not asking for " perpetual motion", more "perpetual energy" would it be possible to combine my Inverter and Battery Charger with a small solar panel to produce sufficient current to charge the batteries and overcome any difficiency in power loss and therefore charge the batteries quicker than on solar alone?
No, it would slow down the solar charge not speed it up. That is because the inverter will always take more out of the batteries than it puts back in for the reasons that others have stated.

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D

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There are only two ways to increase the efficiency of your solar charging:

1. Go somewhere with more sun

2. Add more panels
 
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O

Old Soldier

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There are only two ways to increase the efficiency of your solar charging:

1. Go somewhere with more sun

2. Add more panels

Thanks @peterc10 and @NickNic but I have to dissagree. If I add a treadmill into the equation and Les peddles it for a minimum of 12 hours ( must give her time off for cooking, cleaning and of course sleeping ....) then that should make up for any deficiency surly? :think:
 
Jul 5, 2013
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Thanks @peterc10 and @NickNic but I have to dissagree. If I add a treadmill into the equation and Les peddles it for a minimum of 12 hours ( must give her time off for cooking, cleaning and of course sleeping ....) then that should make up for any deficiency surly? :think:
Yep, it will make a difference. But that is because your adding an additional source of energy. Whether it is enough to make up the difference will depend upon how strict you are willing to be with Les. I wouldn't want to risk it with my wife ;)

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Jaws

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Inverters are massively inefficient.. Modern ones are good but not THAT good
An inverter will always use more than it will put out.

Lets put this in simple terms.. no maths, no nothing..
If your idea would work do you not think everyone ( including all the energy companies ) would be using the system to get free energy

Apart from anything else, if you add a solar panel are you not immediately making the whole inverter / charger thing obsolete as the solar panel will charge the batteries ..
 

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