Speeding ticket - but what if? (1 Viewer)

normanandsue

Free Member
Dec 31, 2010
1,871
21,571
Dunfermline - Scotland
Funster No
14,796
MH
van conversion
Exp
Since 2007
We have just returned from a month in Spain to find a speeding ticket from Thames Valley police, fo exceding 20mph speed limit by 4mph.
I am not complaining about the speeding ticket, but on the return form it says it must be completed and returned within 28 days. We met loads of mhers who were away for three months or more and who, if receiving one of these tickets whilst setting off, woul be unable to complete the firm within the time period.
Would they then face a double whammy for not replying within the specified time span.

Just a thouught
 
Feb 9, 2008
8,924
18,663
Corby, Northants
Funster No
1,455
MH
Coach Built
Exp
Since 2007
You might want to check that where you were caught has a legally imposed 20 mph limit and not just an advisory one. Although I suspect the plod are probably in the right if it's a fixed camera and not contracted out to a mobile team. If you write to them and explain your circumstances I'm sure they will waive any additional penalty on provision of proof.
24 mph in a 20 mph zone does sound very harsh to me.
 
OP
OP
normanandsue

normanandsue

Free Member
Dec 31, 2010
1,871
21,571
Dunfermline - Scotland
Funster No
14,796
MH
van conversion
Exp
Since 2007
I remember the place Phil and it was a cop with a handheld, because I smugly thought zi will be OK I am doing well under 30mph, but my worry is not the ticket, but what would have happened, had I been away for 90 days?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Anthea M

Free Member
Deceased RIP
Oct 18, 2015
9,501
165,134
Sheffield
Funster No
39,598
MH
Hobby
Exp
Since 2009
Years ago our friends were setting off for a 6 month world trip when the night before were flashed by a speed camera . We had a text message asking to open mail and pay the fine ! Went every day for a month but no letter came.!
 

Camdoon

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 22, 2012
1,531
2,806
UK
Funster No
22,981
MH
Adria Matrix Supreme
Exp
2012
The one thing about having passport controls is you can prove you were out the country. Also you can forward your mail to a son/daughter as most companies/banks etc prefer sending you an email so not as revealing as a few years ago.
 
Feb 9, 2008
8,924
18,663
Corby, Northants
Funster No
1,455
MH
Coach Built
Exp
Since 2007
I remember the place Phil and it was a cop with a handheld, because I smugly thought zi will be OK I am doing well under 30mph, but my worry is not the ticket, but what would have happened, had I been away for 90 days?
IMO you need to check out if the 20 mph zone is legal, it's possible this is a money raiser by the police or an uniformed plod thinking the speed limit is legal.
You could write and explain why you have been delayed in responding, pay the fine AND ask them to confirm in writing that the speed limit of 20 mph is legally enforceable which would give you some comeback if you later find out it is not. Just sticking a 20 mph limit sign up does not impose a legally binding speed limit.
Of course, there is a chance it is and your banged to rights but still harsh in my book

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

DanielFord

Free Member
Jun 1, 2013
3,020
3,086
Funster No
26,287
OP is not disputing the fine.

Why this apparent need to avoid penalties for breaching law OR requests for (eg) speed limits set to make places safer??? o_O
Of course, but there is a requirement that the signs are clear so that the motorists are aware of the limit. A limit sign hidden by a hedge would not conform for example. Signs that are missing are another example, that one has happened to me, thank god for dash cams!
But as you say, OP seems to agree that the limit was clear, they just missed it.

To answer the original question, I believe that if you fail to answer the S172 request within the allotted time, then you will be summonsed. This takes ages, and you will be able to answer with mitigation and proof of absence. At that point a new S172 will be sent, you identify the driver and accept the penalty.
To the best of my knowledge that is the process.
 
OP
OP
normanandsue

normanandsue

Free Member
Dec 31, 2010
1,871
21,571
Dunfermline - Scotland
Funster No
14,796
MH
van conversion
Exp
Since 2007
The one thing about having passport controls is you can prove you were out the country.
I think not our passport never left our hands we just waved them at passport control who waved us through.
But clealry having someone open your mail whilst away is a sensible option.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Jul 29, 2014
862
2,083
Norfolk and Correze, France
Funster No
32,603
MH
Adria Twin
Exp
Had one for 5 years many moons ago. Now starting again.
I think not our passport never left our hands we just waved them at passport control who waved us through.
But clealry having someone open your mail whilst away is a sensible option.

But when you booked the crossing you had to give your details - passport number etc, - and you will be registered with the ferry/tunnel as travelling. So you do have proof.
 
Feb 22, 2008
12,258
44,933
Norfolk
Funster No
1,575
MH
Nearly Tugging
Exp
Since 2004
Annoying with such a close margin of speed but thats the law.
In car or motorhome I always have my Garmin on as it warns when you exceed limit by 1mph, although the occasional limit is out of date , most are not.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Apr 11, 2015
5,353
54,337
hull
Funster No
35,812
MH
Laika Ecovip 300
Exp
since 1988 with breaks until 2009
You may also have receipts for campsites atm supermarket receipts. mobile phone may also register your whereabouts. you can always direct them here where you will have been posting all about your travels.
 
Aug 18, 2014
23,539
131,310
Lorca,Murcia,Spain
Funster No
32,898
MH
Transit PVC
Exp
16 years since restarting
You might want to check that where you were caught has a legally imposed 20 mph limit and not just an advisory one. Although I suspect the plod are probably in the right if it's a fixed camera and not contracted out to a mobile team. If you write to them and explain your circumstances I'm sure they will waive any additional penalty on provision of proof.
24 mph in a 20 mph zone does sound very harsh to me.

Can't be camera as most have no certification below 30mph. They need to check though whether it is correctly signed as op thought it was 30mph

I remember the place Phil and it was a cop with a handheld, because I smugly thought zi will be OK I am doing well under 30mph, but my worry is not the ticket, but what would have happened, had I been away for 90 days?

Then why were you not stopped ? I'd just deny it unless they have photographic evidence & ask to see it.

IMO you need to check out if the 20 mph zone is legal, it's possible this is a money raiser by the police or an uniformed plod thinking the speed limit is legal.
You could write and explain why you have been delayed in responding, pay the fine AND ask them to confirm in writing that the speed limit of 20 mph is legally enforceable which would give you some comeback if you later find out it is not. Just sticking a 20 mph limit sign up does not impose a legally binding speed limit.
Of course, there is a chance it is and your banged to rights but still harsh in my book

I'd be wanting photos as a handheld has to be stopped at the time otherwise you'll end up the same as here where they don't have to stop you & can rely on "remembering the registration" , then send on any offence they've thought of.

OP is not disputing the fine.

Why this apparent need to avoid penalties for breaching law OR requests for (eg) speed limits set to make places safer??? o_O

He should be. hand held speed gun should be stopped at time unless camera attached. Additionally he thought it was 30mph. Moght be signage not good or op assuming it was still a 30 ?
I have no problem with limits /penalties as long as the limit is introduced correctly, the signage is correct & operation of the actual equipment, including the necessary checks /calibration is done in accordance with requirements, & by a fully trained operator. Any deviation from the above & it is the same as "taking money under false pretences " and should be treated as such by all involved.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Dec 23, 2014
2,169
2,791
South Somerset
Funster No
34,546
MH
Carthago C-Line I 50
Exp
Since 2009
I can't guarantee that this will work but you could try a polite letter explaining the reason for your delayed payment and enclosing your cheque in full and final payment.

The system and courts are so overworked they may simply be pleased to close it and move on.

DD (JP Retd.)
 
Aug 18, 2014
23,539
131,310
Lorca,Murcia,Spain
Funster No
32,898
MH
Transit PVC
Exp
16 years since restarting
Thinking about it there must have been a camera there somewhere otherwise a Nip cannot be sent.
If no camera then the law requires that you are stopped at the time.
For a Nip to be sent there would have to be photographic evidence. Additionally the Nip has to be received within 14 days of the offence.
If the op left the UK after 14 days from the date of alleged offence & the Nip hadn't been received by then then he has the right to it being thrown out as he has irrefutable evidence of his departure.

I can't guarantee that this will work but you could try a polite letter explaining the reason for your delayed payment and enclosing your cheque in full and final payment.

The system and courts are so overworked they may simply be pleased to close it and move on.

DD (JP Retd.)

I'd be wanting to know that it was correct first.
 
Feb 9, 2008
8,924
18,663
Corby, Northants
Funster No
1,455
MH
Coach Built
Exp
Since 2007
In my home town there are many zones that are restricted to 20 mph and these are well signposted. However, it is an advisory speed limit and the legal enforceable speed limit is 30 mph. This is why I believe it is worth checking out.
Unfortunitly, our police are not always 100% right when they issue speeding fines.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

CWH

LIFE MEMBER
Jan 29, 2014
5,128
245,510
UK
Funster No
29,909
MH
WildAx PVC
Exp
From November 2013
Sorry to highjack your thread @normanandsue , but I found this 20 mph thing interesting and important, and it took quite a bit of finding!

In my home town there are many zones that are restricted to 20 mph and these are well signposted. However, it is an advisory speed limit and the legal enforceable speed limit is 30 mph. This is why I believe it is worth checking out.
Unfortunitly, our police are not always 100% right when they issue speeding fines.
Been researching this since your post. The sum of my internetting boils down to this (and is open to criticism of course!):
  • Both zones and limits are legally enforceable, however they are not necessarily practically enforceable (due to staff resources). Zones are designed to be self-enforcing as far as possible through the use of traffic-calming measures; however persistent offenders should be prosecuted.
  • ACPO initially instructed officers NOT to enforce 20 mph limits (of whichever type), in favour of education, road design etc being used to reduce speeds in these areas. However this has changed and in 2013 ACPO were set to introduce a crack-down.
  • Both zones and limits require the same red-circle signage, with zones additionally stating ZONE which means that the traffic-calming measures within the zone do not have to be additionally signed and lit, as they do within an 'old-fashioned' limited area.
http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/drivers/speed/20mph-zones-and-limits/
Broken Link Removed
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/10323354/Police-ready-to-get-tough-on-20mph-limits.html
Broken Link Removed

This from DfT, especially useful for cyclists
http://www.20splentyforus.org.uk/UsefulReports/Dft_TAL-09-99.pdf

"In 1999, the law was changed by the Road Traffic Regulation Act (Amendment) Order 1999, which gave Highways Authorities more flexibility so they no longer had to apply for permission to introduce a zone. The updated legislation made two distinct types of 20mph speed limit possible:
20mph limits, which consist of just a speed limit change to 20mph which is indicated by the speed limit (and repeater) signs, and
20mph zones, which were designed to be “self-enforcing” due to the traffic calming measures that were introduced along with the change in the speed limit.
The Department for Transport’s current guidance is set out in DfT Circular 01/2006 which encourages and supports Local Authorities to implement 20 mph limits and zones in situations where there is a particular risk to vulnerable road users5 . The guidance sets out that the purpose of 20 mph areas is to create conditions in which drivers naturally drive at around 20 mph as a result of traffic calming measures or the general nature of the location.
It, therefore, suggests that 20mph limits are appropriate for roads where average speeds are already low (below 24mph) or along with traffic calming measures. Ultimately the Local Authority is responsible for deciding which of these was the most appropriate."
http://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/advice-services/road-safety/drivers/20-mph-zone-factsheet.pdf
 

Abacist

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 15, 2013
3,649
10,042
Devon
Funster No
28,581
MH
N & B Tag Axle
Exp
since 2013
24mph seems very harsh as the normal procedure is limit + 10% +2 = 24mph which has not been exceeded. I would have expected 25mph to be fined or prosecuted but not 24mph.
 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top