Solar Panel and battery Amp leakage? (1 Viewer)

[themountaintiger]

Still having solar panel woes (more detail below)

I have 2 x 60w solars which came fitted to motorhome and work with Sargent regulator. I then asked reputable installer to add another solar panel of 150w which has had a Sunworks Dual Panel Controller been fitted as advised by installer still using Sargent regulator. The set up isn’t working though and I wonder if it’s an issue with different size solar panels, blocking diode or something else. The installer changed the controller from Sunworks and Sargent regulator to Sunware FOX-MD1 Charge Monitor/Regulator and exactly the same problem is occurring.

Does anyone know if there is a test, or solution. Is the answer to bin off the 2 x 60 w solars and buy another 150w one or Is it a more straightforward solution.


This is happening

Please note this is an example of whats happening every time I use motorhome.. Whilst I can see when sun is shining amps being put back into batteries, I have a massive drain..

Sat in motorhome ready to drive off Friday 9:30 am. Cab battery is 12.3, leisure’s 12.4.
Drove to destination (70 minutes) checked immediately batteries showed cab 13.0 and leisure's 13.3v
Sun was shining and was keeping batteries topped up to 12.8v cab and leisure 13v+. (Sun went about 3pm)
Checked batteries at 4pm. Cab battery at 12.6v and leisure at 12.4v

What had I used..
Recharged my phone
Had telly on for 10-15 mins
Alde heating via gas is on (manual states that uses 0.1-1amp/hr)
Arial booster blue light has been on.
1 tv standby light is on
Control panel view levels light is on
So since suns gone out, in space of 1-2 hrs, cab battery has gone from 12.8v to 12.6v, and leisure's 13.0v to 12.4v


7-8pm had 2-3 spotlights on whilst kids had tea..
Had telly on for 3 hrs 8-11pm
Woke in morning 8am ish, cab battery 12.2v, leisure 11.9/12.0v


Solars will now charge back batteries to about 12.3v cab and 12.4v leisure..

 

[Don Quixote]

Reading your post, I think you need replace the batteries as they are not holding the charge that the solar panels are putting in. The solar panels are fooling you into thinking the next morning they are charging the batteries they are not unless the voltage is around 14.4 all they are doing is topping up the battery, but because they are knackered as soon as you put them under a load like a TV of charging a phone they will drop back down to 12.2 or less very quickly. Replace the batteries and you will find everything working as it should. Please remember that UK sun this time of year will never replace what you take out of the batteries.

 

[tonka]

How is the solar connected to your batteries ??

Are all panels going to the new regulator and then direct to batteries or has he linked them into the sargent ??
The Sargent can only take 120w max..

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[themountaintiger]

Batteries are less than 6 months old and worked perfectly prior to installation of new solar panel

Tonka, id read that re 120w max (think id saw 150w). I think first installation he was using sargent regulator. He did then contact Sargent on my request and I believe this new regulator/fox monitor was put in as it would be able to cope. Since reading your comment ive found the spec sheet for the fox.. im not sure if its definitely suitable or not to be honest Broken Link Removed

im unclear exactly how he had connected them re sargents system

 

[Don Quixote]

The batteries might only be 6 months old, but if they have not been charged right or allowed to drop below 12.4volts to many times they are dead. You can do a load test over 24 hours on the batteries and if they drop to 12.4 or less under load (2/5 amps per hours ) within 2/4 hours - then with NO load on batteries they should recover back up to 12.7 within about 45 minutes or better if this does not happen ( in your case we know this does not happen because you have stated "Woke in morning 8am ish, cab battery 12.2v, leisure 11.9/12.0v"). They are dead really dead.
To give you an idea my batteries fully charged will sit at 12.7/12.8 or better for 5 or 6 hours under load ( drawing 5/7 amps ) and as soon as I remove any load (bed time) they recover and in the morning before sun up they read 12.7volts. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[themountaintiger]

never say never, but batteries have been checked by installer and by his reckoning and electrical measuring tool they are ok.. Also dont understand why working perfectly day before installation of new solar, then suddenly day after both cab battery and leisure batteries operate as mentioned but this has been going on for 2-3 months now. I hadn't noticed immediately due to amount of daylight hours, but over a few weekends began to notice draining far too quick.

But i do agree that if my batteries continue to drain like they are doing then it cant be doing them any good..

"To give you an idea my batteries fully charged will sit at 12.7/12.8 or better for 5 or 6 hours under load ( drawing 5/7 amps ) and as soon as I remove any load (bed time) they recover and in the morning before sun up they read 12.7volts. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news."

This is what I was expecting with my batteries and solar panels. Even without solars in my prior motorhome I was getting far more use out of my 2 x 110ah batts than what I have now.

So its definitely a solar panel installation issue, and I agree its not doing my batteries any good longer term. They have been going down more than normal due to darker nights, so less daylight for them to recover...

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[Don Quixote]

never say never, but batteries have been checked by installer and by his reckoning and electrical measuring tool they are ok.. Also dont understand why working perfectly day before installation of new solar, then suddenly day after both cab battery and leisure batteries operate as mentioned but this has been going on for 2-3 months now. I hadn't noticed immediately due to amount of daylight hours, but over a few weekends began to notice draining far too quick.

But i do agree that if my batteries continue to drain like they are doing then it cant be doing them any good..

"To give you an idea my batteries fully charged will sit at 12.7/12.8 or better for 5 or 6 hours under load ( drawing 5/7 amps ) and as soon as I remove any load (bed time) they recover and in the morning before sun up they read 12.7volts. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news."

This is what I was expecting with my batteries and solar panels. Even without solars in my prior motorhome I was getting far more use out of my 2 x 110ah batts than what I have now.

So its definitely a solar panel installation issue, and I agree its not doing my batteries any good longer term. They have been going down more than normal due to darker nights, so less daylight for them to recover...

Well I can not help you any more. Let me know when you buy new batteries.

 

[tonka]

Hard to help without knowing how its all wired...
If there is any connection between the new regulator and the Sargent it could throw up all sorts of issues...

When I looked at doing something similar the advise from Sargent was to have Max 120w connected to their unit via the plug in connection BUT control unit over door needs changing so that solar only did the engine/cab battery...
Then other panel(s) via a separate regulator and fed direct to leisure battery(s).

Another factor if you have the coloured control panel is that you can select different amp settings for the charger. May or may not have some bearing on it ..

http://sargentshop.co.uk/epages/esh...tPath=/Shops/eshop328964/Categories/TechData/"Product%20Information"

 

[themountaintiger]

Well I can not help you any more. Let me know when you buy new batteries.

That may still need to be done.. ill report back when I find out more..

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[Don Quixote]

That may still need to be done.. ill report back when I find out more..

I'm 100% sure you will replace them.

 

[Stealaway]

Had telly on for 3 hrs 8-11pm

That would flatten my 2 x 110A battery's
I would need to drive for at least 3 hours to top them back up.
I think you are over estimating the power the solar panels at this time of year.
Have you tried isolating the solar from the Sargent and testing it.
I installed a separate system with an amp meter for my solar to be able to monitor charging amps.
The most I see from my 250 W panels on my amp meter is 2-3 amps, during the winter.

 

[walburga]

I've got 100 watt panel on the roof, and the max I've seen in bright sun over the last few days, at mid-day, is 0.7 amps. Battery volts approx 13 volts.

Also got a stand alone 60 watt folding panel which was angled at 90 deg to the sun and that was giving me 2.7 amps. Again, Battery voltage approx 13 volts.

Allen

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[Don Quixote]

I've got 100 watt panel on the roof, and the max I've seen in bright sun over the last few days, at mid-day, is 0.7 amps. Battery volts approx 13 volts.

Also got a stand alone 60 watt folding panel which was angled at 90 deg to the sun and that was giving me 2.7 amps. Again, Battery voltage approx 13 volts.

Allen

13 volts at the battery means that your solar folding or roof mounted is only topping up your batteries and not charging them. So they will after 3/4/5 days without getting a voltage of 14.4 will soon be dead.

 

[walburga]

13 volts at the battery means that your solar folding or roof mounted is only topping up your batteries and not charging them. So they will after 3/4/5 days without getting a voltage of 14.4 will soon be dead.

Disagree....after a couple of weeks of no sun, and battery volts being down to 12.5 volts, it was always going to take time for them to rise up to 14 + volts. I measured them probably at mid charge. I'm sure as soon as the sun comes out for a reasonable amount of time the batts will be at 13.8 + volts

Allen

 

[Don Quixote]

Ok Allen

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[andy63]

reading this thread with interest...and trying to understand a bit more about solar..
from the little ive read so far it sounds like you are trying to make the best of a far from ideal situation, ie connecting two 60w panels and a 150w.. whatever way you choose ie parallel or series or a combination it looks like the panel electrical characteristics will be different and the system will not be as efficient as choosing panels with the same specs...
this link covers it briefly... http://solarpanelsvenue.com/mixing-solar-panels/
think id be trying to not use the sargent charge controller either if that's at all possible... ie totally separate installation with dedicated charge controller straight to batteries..
hope you get sorted
ta andy

 

[jonandshell]

That would flatten my 2 x 110A battery's
I would need to drive for at least 3 hours to top them back up.
I think you are over estimating the power the solar panels at this time of year.
Have you tried isolating the solar from the Sargent and testing it.
I installed a separate system with an amp meter for my solar to be able to monitor charging amps.
The most I see from my 250 W panels on my amp meter is 2-3 amps, during the winter.

Your batteries are knackered too!

 

[Don Quixote]

Your batteries are knackered too!

Your wasting your time. I have given up.

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[themountaintiger]

That would flatten my 2 x 110A battery's
I would need to drive for at least 3 hours to top them back up.
I think you are over estimating the power the solar panels at this time of year.
Have you tried isolating the solar from the Sargent and testing it.
I installed a separate system with an amp meter for my solar to be able to monitor charging amps.
The most I see from my 250 W panels on my amp meter is 2-3 amps, during the winter.

flatten 2 x 110A batteries? Without solar panels on my prior motorhome I was getting 6-8 hours over 2-3 days.. (avtex 19inch tv)
I dont believe I am over estimating solar panel usage as again my 2 x 110a batteries were lasting 2-3 days in prior motorhome (no solar panels) and my current set up 2 x 100a batts and 270w of solar is lasting 20hrs.
On my amps in meter I do see your sort of reading, but sometimes less.
Re isolating etc I will write these comments down for me to ask installer

 

[themountaintiger]

Listen guys.. thanks for all your comments and I do appreciate your time. the installer is coming round to try and sort out for me so I will report back.. yes even if the batteries are dead..

 

[Don Quixote]

Listen guys.. thanks for all your comments and I do appreciate your time. the installer is coming round to try and sort out for me so I will report back.. yes even if the batteries are dead..

Ask the installer to do a load test on your batteries ( ONE at a time not linked together ) and if he says they don't need it PLEASE find another installer.

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[Stealaway]

Oh no they're not. Is this becoming a pantomime?

 

[Don Quixote]

Comment: Had telly on for 3 hrs 8-11pm
@Stealaway You posted: That would flatten my 2 x 110A battery's
I would need to drive for at least 3 hours to top them back up.
I think you are over estimating the power the solar panels at this time of year.
Have you tried isolating the solar from the Sargent and testing it.
I installed a separate system with an amp meter for my solar to be able to monitor charging amps.
The most I see from my 250 W panels on my amp meter is 2-3 amps, during the winter.

Now 110 amps divided by 5 amps (fully charged battery) = 22 hours before they reach 50% discharge. So by your comment alone your batteries at dead as not holding the charge. Then there is your 3 hour drive, unless your alternator is pushing out 20amps+ per hour then really it would take 6/8 driving. Why? because the charging system on motorhomes work in a way that when the vehicle is charged the relay charges or should charge the leisure batteries, but after a very short period of time they charge is reduced from 40ish amps to 4 or 5 or 8 amps. If you do not believe me put an amp meter across the +lead from the alternator and while driving ask the other half to give you a reading and you will see this happen. Thats why a B2B works as it "bluffs" the alternator into think doh...... the battery is not charged yet........
You are 100% correct about the overestimating the power the solar panels at this time of the year in the UK.

This is not a "pissing contest" to see who know more than the other and if I'm wrong I happy to say so.

 

[Stealaway]

Your batteries are knackered too!

Oh no they're not - Is this turning into a pantomime?

flatten 2 x 110A batteries? Without solar panels on my prior motorhome I was getting 6-8 hours over 2-3 days.. (avtex 19inch tv)
I dont believe I am over estimating solar panel usage as again my 2 x 110a batteries were lasting 2-3 days in prior motorhome (no solar panels) and my current set up 2 x 100a batts and 270w of solar is lasting 20hrs.
On my amps in meter I do see your sort of reading, but sometimes less.
Re isolating etc I will write these comments down for me to ask installer

I meant flattening my battery's to level at which I was still happy I not damaging them.
They would also have kept power to the my 240V TV for a couple of days but that would quickly knacker my (new last October) battery's. The TV takes about 7 amps an hour and I watch the voltage drop to a level (12 and a bit volts ?) where I switch the TV off. Ignoring all the other power demands I've determined that if I watch the TV for 3 + hours of an evening it takes three hours (probably a bit less actually) of running the engine before the voltage on my gauge is back at maximum.
All this was before I fitted the solar panels, so next year will be another learning curve.

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[Mother Ship]

Just to add another spanner in the works we experienced leisure batteries draining quickly as well as other electrical faults on a new motorhome and we had an EFOY and solar panel!! Efoy kicked in every day to top up batteries even when touring and doing several hours driving a day. We spent a year (and a lot of unnecessary money was spent) going back to converter who built van to try and sort out, and not being satisfied with all his testing saying leisure batteries were fine we went to Motorhome electrical specialists who did further testing and could not find the fault. We had isolators fitted to leisure batteries so at least when left in storage there was no drain on them and we were not using litres of methanol. 2 years down the line we discovered that a lead to the engine battery was loosely connected and once fixed all our problems have gone. So check all cables are connected securely!

 

[themountaintiger]

Update.. installer has wired fuses, one for the 150w solar panel and another for the 2 x 60's. I can then remove a fuse from a solar panel and see its effects overnight/first thing in morning on the level of the batteries. After driving for an hour, and with both batts at 12.9/13.0v ive taken out the 150w solar panel fuse. Normally in the morning id see cab and leisures being at around 12.2/12.3v, sort of hoping that I might see 12.8 cab and 12.9 leisure.. lets see. If both batts reduce down to 12.2v/12.3v as it has been normally, then ill try removing the fuse for the 2 x 60w solars. Will report back what happens..

 

[peterc10]

The TV takes about 7 amps an hour

Does it? Seems very high. 12V TVs should normally run at about 35W maximum which equates to about 3 amps. Time for a new one?

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[Stealaway]

Does it? Seems very high. 12V TVs should normally run at about 35W maximum which equates to about 3 amps. Time for a new one?

It's a 240v 24" smart TV so it is on the high side. We also tend to watch it with a hard drive with recorded TV series and films

 

[themountaintiger]

problem resolved but I dont understand how. I did take out the fuses for each solar in turn, but still the same issue arose. Batteries drained overnight.

The one thing I had never done though whilst having the problem was to turn off the ECU. I had always left it on in storage. I thought why not try turning it off, perhaps it will stop 0.1amp of drain, or whatever it was by having it on. I went back to the motorhome a week later, turned on ECU and was surprised to find my cab battery at 12.7 and leisures at 12.9 whilst it was dark.. for the past 3-4 months the figures have been 12.2v and 12.4v

been out in it and usage is now as it should be. batteries no longer drain to 12v overnight with next to nothing being on..

I dont understand though why having the ECU off, then turning it back on would resolve the issue...