Which driver was to blame (1 Viewer)

[buttons]

I witnessed a prang this morning, Two BMWs collided on a mini roundabout. Mini roundabouts are a real bone of contention with some but not me.
This mornings situation was that BMW 1 entered a clear roundabout area he got half way across when BMW 2 entered the roundabout area and hit BMW 1 in the side. The lady got out of BMW 2 and remonstrated that BMW 1 should have given way to her before she entered the roundabout area. My understanding is that we give way to the right but only if the vehicle to your right has already entered the roundabout.
What do you think who was to blame BMW 1 or BMW 2 .

 

[Southdowners]

Mini roundabouts are the same as larger ones - you give way to traffic coming from the right

 

[Ber090]

As above!

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[Khizzie]

No.2

 

[Encantador]

I would say BMW 2 is in the wrong, mainly because she ran into BMW 1.

We have lots of roundabouts controlled by traffic lights, if the lights are ever not working for some reason, it is chaos, a lot of drivers seem totally lost and have no idea what to do. All of the normal road markings are in place, no lights, it's a roundabout like any other.

 

[gus-lopez]

2 once on any roundabout you always have right of way.

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[Zigisla]

BMW 2. You cannot enter the roundabout if a car is already on it to you right, but nothing says you have to be clear. Busses, lorries or coaches etc can enter a roundabout clear of traffic, but may not be clear when another approaches from the right.

 

[Boycie]

BMW 2 as mentioned above. BMW 1 does not know the HIGHWAY CODE.

 

[buttons]

Mini roundabouts are the same as larger ones - you give way to traffic coming from the right

Correct but mini roundabouts are different in respect that they are much smaller, (maybe just two car lengths across),some think that they have right of way long before they have reached the roundabout. I think you should give way to vehicles that are already on the roundabout area.

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[Southdowners]

Correct but mini roundabouts are different in respect that they are much smaller, (maybe just two car lengths across),some think that they have right of way long before they have reached the roundabout. I dont, I think you should give way to vehicles that are already on the roundabout area.

Yes, I agree. Obviously cars already on any roundabout have right of way. Of course if they were on the roundabout they'd be coming from the right, so the give way to the right rule applies wherever the vehicle is.

 

[Frentchy]

I would imagine for an actual collision to occur there was some fast aggressive maneuvering, especially as there are two BMs and at leased one woman involved.

 

[Emmit]

Comment by Buttons at start of thread;
My understanding is that we give way to the right but only if the vehicle to your right has already entered the roundabout.
Correct.
Comment by Oriel;
Mini roundabouts are the same as larger ones - you give way to traffic coming from the right.
Incoorect because the comment is incomplete (See Buttons comment)

There is a common misconception by the modern motorist that, as he approaches the roundabout he can enter it and damn the consequences as occured here.

Just for devilment I regularly enter a roundabout when I can see quite clearly a motorist on the right WHO IS NOT ON THE ROUNDABOUT, bearing down on it at a speed. He/she does not have right of way purely because he/she is to my right. He/she isn't ON the roundabout.

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[buttons]

Yes, I agree. Obviously cars already on any roundabout have right of way. Of course if they were on the roundabout they'd be coming from the right, so the give way to the right rule applies wherever the vehicle is.

No Oriel BMW 1 did not come or was not coming from the right, however BMW 1 did enter a completely clear roundabout as BMW 2 at this point had not entered the roundabout area. BMW 2 should have given way to BMW 1 simply because he was already on the roundabout.

 

[Minxy]

No 2 for not driving with due care and attention ... regardless of whether she was 'first' in the pecking order if they had both been at the roundabout at the exact same time, she drove onto it whilst the other car was half way across which means that she wasn't ready to react to the actual 'conditions' on the road at the time. It sounds like she hadn't been looking forward and instead sideways to see if anything was approaching her on the right and/or had just 'assumed' that she would be able to go straight across it without slowing down.

 

[2657]

Yes, I agree. Obviously cars already on any roundabout have right of way. Of course if they were on the roundabout they'd be coming from the right, so the give way to the right rule applies wherever the vehicle is.

Not necessarily, it is possible to pull out on any roundabout as a vehicle approaches from the right, usually at speed, and be on the roundabout before the approaching vehicle reaches the roundabout. The critical words are 'give way to vehicles already on the roundabout' be it a mini roundabout or normal size.

As @buttons says far too many people approach roundabouts at speed with the assumption that no one will pull out and they have automatic right of way.

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[jonandshell]

It doesn't matter, they are both BMW drivers and should both be imprisoned!

 

[KeithChesterfield]

Now this type of crash is where a Dash Cam comes in very handy .......

 

[Dorwyn]

I totally agree that once you're on the roundabout you have right of way, even if a
vehicle is coming from the right but not actually on it. BUT many people assume that they can enter at speed from the right, using the car as a battering ram as on this occasion. It is therefore wise to be circumspect if someone is approaching fast from the right. The driver coming from the right obviously was travelling too fast if a collision occurred. The insurance companies will probably treat it as a 50/50.

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[mjltigger]

Have another look at the highway code.. Mini roundabouts are different.. Sort of..

The rule is the same.. the size makes it different.. In this case it is both drivers at fault, one for failing to give way, one for failing to take action to avoid an accident. I predict the insurance companies will split liability close to 50/50

Rule 185
When reaching the roundabout you should

• give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
• check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
• watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
• look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.

 

[Southdowners]

Mini roundabouts are the same as larger ones - you give way to traffic coming from the right.
Incoorect

Well that's a new one on me. So are you saying that you don't give way to the right?

Just for clarification.... Whenever I approach a roundabout I slow down and check to the right... if nothing is coming from the right off I go. Surely no entry onto a roundabout has the right over another entry as all vehicles are giving way to those approaching from the right. If I pulled up and at the same time that another vehicle was doing the same in the lane to my right I'd expect them to pull out and so wait for them to do so.

I'm not talking about the BMW scenario - no idea as I wasn't there.

 

[buttons]

Comment by Buttons at start of thread;
My understanding is that we give way to the right but only if the vehicle to your right has already entered the roundabout.
Correct.
Comment by Oriel;
Mini roundabouts are the same as larger ones - you give way to traffic coming from the right.
Incoorect because the comment is incomplete (See Buttons comment)

There is a common misconception by the modern motorist that, as he approaches the roundabout he can enter it and damn the consequences as occured here.

Just for devilment I regularly enter a roundabout when I can see quite clearly a motorist on the right WHO IS NOT ON THE ROUNDABOUT, bearing down on it at a speed. He/she does not have right of way purely because he/she is to my right. He/she isn't ON the roundabout.

Bingo emmitdb I award you driver of the month. Why is it that other drivers just cant understand this too. Nothing irritates me more than someone tooting me for already being on the roundabout before they enter it. I also share your devilment at times, they really give me the hump.....

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[Charlie]

2

How is driver 1 going to demonstrate where or what the actual position was of car 2 ?

Its generally considered we give way to vehicles approaching form the right and that is the way the insurance will treat it UNLESS there is solid proof that car 2 was in the wrong position.

 

[peterc10]

No 2 was to blame. You give way to traffic already on the roundabout.

 

[mjltigger]

Bingo emmitdb I award you driver of the month. Why is it that other drivers just cant understand this too. Nothing irritates me more than someone tooting me for already being on the roundabout before they enter it. I also share your devilment at times, they really give me the hump.....

Have a look at my post. Being on the roundabout is irrelevant. You should gid way to traffic approaching from the right. On a large roundabout that usually only includes traffic already on the roundabout but on mini roundabouts it includes traffic approaching the roundabout.

Careful about that high horse, its a long way down.

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[buttons]

Well that's a new one on me. So are you saying that you don't give way to the right?

Just for clarification.... Whenever I approach a roundabout I slow down and check to the right... if nothing is coming from the right off I go. Surely no entry onto a roundabout has the right over another entry as all vehicles are giving way to those approaching from the right. If I pulled up and at the same time that another vehicle was doing the same in the lane to my right I'd expect them to pull out and so wait for them to do so.

I'm not talking about the BMW scenario - no idea as I wasn't there.

If you enter a clear small roundabout, get half way across then someone hits you in your drivers door. Who's fault is it Oriel. Dont forget that no other vehicles were on the roundabout or waiting to get onto the roundabout when you entered it.

 

[golly]

From Highway Code
Rule 185
When reaching the roundabout you should

• give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
• check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
• watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
• look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.
• Rule 188
  Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.
  

 

[Southdowners]

Not necessarily, it is possible to pull out on any roundabout as a vehicle approaches from the right, usually at speed, and be on the roundabout before the approaching vehicle reaches the roundabout. The critical words are 'give way to vehicles already on the roundabout' be it a mini roundabout or normal size.

As @buttons says far too many people approach roundabouts at speed with the assumption that no one will pull out and they have automatic right of way.

Not sure what you mean... Why would a vehicle accessing the roundabout once you're on it be of any consequence?

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[Charlie]

Every one is quoting rules. Its going to down to proving who is in the wrong.. Car 1 will simply say that its car 2s fault as he will say the car was on the roundabout. .

A dash cam in car 1 wont show what happened and IF there is one in car two the driver better be pretty sure before submitting the tape.

 

[peter marshall]

Give way to the right is the normal rule. 3rd exit or more outside lane surprising how many cut you off by going in the inside lane. ( there is one roundabout in Blackpool where you give way to the left which is marked that way.)

 

[buttons]

Have a look at my post. Being on the roundabout is irrelevant. You should gid way to traffic approaching from the right. On a large roundabout that usually only includes traffic already on the roundabout but on mini roundabouts it includes traffic approaching the roundabout.
Careful about that high horse, its a long way down.

What distance has to be clear to your right tigger befor you may enter a roundabout 10-20-100-1000mtrs or a mile. Who says when it is clear to enter a small roundabout. If a car is doing 60mph then perhaps we should give him a mile and a half of clear road before we enter a clear small roundabout.
All mini roundabouts have GIVE WAY signs with a picture of a roundabout before the roundabout why is this if it is not to give way to cars already on the roundabout.

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