just how good should my 2.8 fiat pull? (1 Viewer)

[friar tuck]

ok i know this is like how long is a piece f string. i have a 2000 year autotrail tag axle cheiftan,its fitted with a fiat 2.8 td engine no ecu or fancy electronics just a turbo.
i am pleased with the economy as last summer on a trip through france towing a small trailer and motorcycle i averagered 25mpg,however it does seem to struggle on very slight long motorway inclines even more so if theres a head wind and i feel im using 4 th gear far more than i should.i believe there are two 5 th gear ratios available as my van but as i have no rev counter im taking a guess that i have the long legged 5th as theres quite a gap between 4 th and 5th.im now pulling a bigger trailer with a 4x4 quad on it and i feel as if 5th gear is for downhill or tailwind situations only. has anyone else had experience with this engine,when in use my motorhome is weighing approx 4000kilo and the quad and trailer weigh 600kilo.the bike and trailer only weighed 250 kilo.
thanks in advance.

 

[Minxy]

To be honest you're pulling a heavy beast of a MH on an 'old' engine, so it's never gonna fly! Are you guessing at the real weight of your MH and trailer or have you actually taken the unit to a weighbridge? We used to have a 1.9td of around the same vintage on a 3,500kg Elddis and it wasn't bad but wasn't great either, however it was a lot better than the non-turbo 2.8 we changed it for!

Out of interest what's the top speed you get without a trailer at all?

 

[Boringfrog]

We have the "newer" 2.8jtd and I think we have the same 5th gear as you, if we hit a hill doing 65-70 I will have to drop to 4th gear. We don't tow anything and are under 3.5t. So with your weight I'd say dropping to 4th gear is normal.

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[Bill and Shell]

Im in the same position, a late registered 2002 fiat cab on 4500 chassis.
Brought here home through storm desmond, literally hated the bloody thing by time we got home.
Much better out of the wind but still find myself changing down to 4th on long hills, even with no kit on board.
Was worried that I bought myself a lemon but its probably just how they are.
There is a low ratio upgrade kit available and I also considered a tunit box, but I may just hold off a while for now

 

[friar tuck]

minxy girl i would say top speed is about 80-85 but only with a tailwind the weight is weighbridge for the motorhome in holiday mode and guessing the quad and trailer the quad specs say 350kilo . im guessing the trailer at 250 as its a caravan chassis and aluminium bodywork.i think the tunit box is for the later ecu controlled engines.as i understand it the early ones like i have all you can do is tweak the injector pumps.sadly it seems i have all shes got to give.
maybee just got to save my pennies for a 3.0 engined later model. i do hope they are better?????

 

[wizzer59]

Yep had the same on my Hymer, so I had her tweaked a little much better now

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[DP+JAY]

I know there are 3 different ratio 5th sets for the 2.8 jtd but can only see 1 for the TDi.
These are the people to ask, i found them very helpful.

https://www.axel-augustin.de/shop2/..._78320.html?XTCsid=2etcvfpa7ge2p8a056o55uo4a7

 

[Bill and Shell]

Yep had the same on my Hymer, so I had her tweaked a little much better now

Any tips for what works?

 

[Theonlysue]

I had my 2006 3.9t fiat remapped by wow as it was very sluggish.
Made a huge difference in overtaking, much more spritly, and a new fifth gear, 60mph at 2000 revs rather than 40mph.

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[dave newell]

It sounds about right, my Iveco Daily camper has the same engine albeit without an intercooler so only 100BHP but it pulls my 1500KG trailer well enough. Camper weighs in around 3700-3800KGs and on the flat its fine, it would almost certainly be capable of exceeding the national motorway speed limit with the trailer on the back but I stick to 50MPH cruising when towing. Show it a hill and it runs out of breath though, coming up the Ironbridge bypass its down to 3rd gear and working hard to get up. Yours should have the intercooler as well so I think is about 110BHP but it is a 15 year old motor now.

D.

 

[gus-lopez]

I know there are 3 different ratio 5th sets for the 2.8 jtd but can only see 1 for the TDi.
These are the people to ask, i found them very helpful.

https://www.axel-augustin.de/shop2/..._78320.html?XTCsid=2etcvfpa7ge2p8a056o55uo4a7

Excellent link, hadn't seen them before.

 

[wizzer59]

Any tips for what works?

We haven't had her that long and I had noticed on our tour of France this year that on the Motorways she struggled on every incline and having to come out of cruise to change down was a pain, so when we got back I did a little research and found out there was actually a guy in the village who did remaps so I told him what the problem was and he gave her a little tickle to give her a little more oomph

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[Boringfrog]

I had my 2006 3.9t fiat remapped by wow as it was very sluggish.
Made a huge difference in overtaking, much more spritly, and a new fifth gear, 60mph at 2000 revs rather than 40mph.

How much did you pay for the new 5th gear?

 

[teensvan99]

We had the Burstner tag with 2.8jtd. Bought the lower 5th gear set for £150 and had it fitted by local gearbox garage for further £ 150. Made it run along at 45mph very happy and made hills a lot better to climb. Also fitted a chip to boost bhp by 30 bhp. This made it a different van to drive. Also got another 2mpg out of it. This is the best 2 mods to do.

 

[Figaro]

Yep had the same on my Hymer, so I had her tweaked a little much better now

May I ask what the tweak was and how much it cost please ?

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[f6c]

Frier Tuck get the engine re-mapped. Works wonders

 

[gus-lopez]

Frier Tuck get the engine re-mapped. Works wonders

He hasn't got an ecu to 'remap'

 

[Irishrover]

My Adria has the 2.8 idtd engine ( 5.8 metres ). Pulls well in all gears but on very steep motorway hills, will have to drop back to 4th every now and then.

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[ambulancekidd]

I'd suggest fitting a bigger performance intercooler & having the injection pump tweaked. I always did this to my TDI Land Rovers to aid motorway performance on long climbs whilst towing our caravan or horse trailer. Its about the only way you'll squeeze more out of an old school Turbo diesel while these engines will never be a ball of fire, it can certainly take the hard work out of motorway driving.

 

[Spade]

My Adria has the 2.8 idtd engine ( 5.8 metres ). Pulls well in all gears but on very steep motorway hills, will have to drop back to 4th every now and then.

I also have a 2.8 idtd engine
Can I just ask do you find that the engine in fourth gear is revving loudly enough to change up to fifth at too low an actual speed for the van not to labour when in fifth.my van sound ready to change at about 65 kph but needs to be at 80 kph so as not to labour.
I normally drive at 70 to 90 kph so am changing between fourth an fifth a lot

 

[rolandrat]

There used to be a company in Lancaster called TB Turbo who were experts with Fiat gearboxes. I've heard that the guy who fronted it has moved to another in Lancaster, maybe someone on here has further info. Another guy who can give advice is Big John's Auto Centre 0116 251 9700. John or Simon. They are gearbox experts as well but situated in the midlands.

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[Irishrover]

I also have a 2.8 idtd engine
Can I just ask do you find that the engine in fourth gear is revving loudly enough to change up to fifth at too low an actual speed for the van not to labour when in fifth.my van sound ready to change at about 65 kph but needs to be at 80 kph so as not to labour.
I normally drive at 70 to 90 kph so am changing between fourth an fifth a lot

Yes, 4th gear can feel very high revving and it does make you want to change up to 5th too early. After I read about the 5th gear failures on these models I now never change up to 5th gear below 80 kph.

The 5th gear on these boxe's were an " add on " They were originally a 4 speed box. They could have got the final 5th gear ratio better sorted....feels more like going from 4th to 6th gear in reality. On the plus side.....the 2.8 idtd engines are supposed to be bullet proof.....I drove all over Europe and it never missed a beat...1999 model.

 

[rolandrat]

Just a follow up, what ever you increase the engine power output to there's always a chance of clutch slip resulting in premature failure when pulling extra weight. A friend of mine did it with his double rear axle and he started having clutch slip soon after. He replaced it and it went again so he traded it in. It was a 2.8. I run a 3ltr. it's my third, they are well on top as far as power goes and I would never consider a remap.

 

[Spade]

Yes, 4th gear can feel very high revving and it does make you want to change up to 5th too early. After I read about the 5th gear failures on these models I now never change up to 5th gear below 80 kph.

The 5th gear on these boxe's were an " add on " They were originally a 4 speed box. They could have got the final 5th gear ratio better sorted....feels more like going from 4th to 6th gear in reality. On the plus side.....the 2.8 idtd engines are supposed to be bullet proof.....I drove all over Europe and it never missed a beat...1999 model.

You described it better than I could. I had not heard of fifth gear failure. I must research that.
I found that it it was only on a motorway or some national routes that fifth was usable. I seemed to be changing down coming out of every corner on any standard road
Is there no problem leaving it in fourth besides fuel consumption?

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[rolandrat]

They only changed over from IDTD to JTD because of new exhaust emission regulations. The IDTD is a very good engine, bomb-proof and will last forever.

 

[Spade]

Hope so,there is 140000 kms up on mine!

 

[Irishrover]

You described it better than I could. I had not heard of fifth gear failure. I must research that.
I found that it it was only on a motorway or some national routes that fifth was usable. I seemed to be changing down coming out of every corner on any standard road
Is there no problem leaving it in fourth besides fuel consumption?

I think everyone with these models have the same issue you describe, 5th gear is too tall coming from 4th unless you are high up the rev range when changing, i.e 80 - 100 kph.

I read a thread on here that leaving it in 4th and driving at 80 kph has little effect on consumption, there has been funsters who have had 5th gear failures whilst in Europe and had to drive home at 80 kph on motorways....a bit noisy yes, but they reckon fuel consumption wasn't too bad. These engines are tough....

Not to scare you but here's thread on 5th gear failures....
http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/ducato-5th-gear-popping-out.67830/

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[Spade]

Thanks very much for the link.I will have a read of that.
I am delighted to hear that.travelling on a bendy road was terrible because of trying to drive and change gear so often
The gear shift is very soft, I often thought the gear stick would come out of the dash.

 

[Irishrover]

Thanks very much for the link.I will have a read of that.
I am delighted to hear that.travelling on a bendy road was terrible because of trying to drive and change gear so often
The gear shift is very soft, I often thought the gear stick would come out of the dash.

It's a great read with a great write up and pics

Mine is fairly tight and positive...maybe you need linkage/bushings adjusted??? Should not be soft as you describe...

 

[Spade]

She is due in for a service. I will say it to my mechanic.
Thanks again For the information

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