Petition for Aires in the UK & something to be done about Dartford crossing (1 Viewer)

D

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I don't see any problem with the Dartford crossing. I've used it several times since it changed and never had any issues. Now the barriers have gone it's quicker than it ever was.

Not even going to comment on the other one :doh:
 

GJH

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The Dartford one might have a chance of success, as so many people use it, if there is really a problem. We've used it once each way, at the end of January. The bridge was a bit slow but that was because of high winds and the tunnel was no problem even though the barriers were still in place at the time.

As for the aires one, as usual the petition is based on inaccurate foundations. When I see such petitions I immediately think of the chorus to Seeger's Where Have All The Flowers Gone. I suppose, though, it's easier for somebody to start a petition with little thought than it is to actually put in the effort to identify a viable site for an aire and then work with a council involved.

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I don't see any problem with the Dartford crossing. I've used it several times since it changed and never had any issues. Now the barriers have gone it's quicker than it ever was.

Not even going to comment on the other one :doh:
Yes the queue was only 3 miles yesterday instead of the old 6 +.lol
 

Jabberwocky

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The bigger issue with dartford is that it's supposed to be toll free by now.
 

ianandkath

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if they took away the toll booths,, its toll free, or am i missing something?

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GJH

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Ive signed the aires one, they ought to be looking at this.

Im really surprised that GJH is anti.
Look back at my comments about previous, similar, wastes of time and you shouldn't be.

What government is going to try to compel councils to provide facilities for which no real demand can be demonstrated? As we saw from a recent post, the cost of provision in Portrush (where a demand had been shown) was just shy of £50,000; how could that be justified all over the country without real evidence that it would be money well spent?

I will support anyone who identifies a potentially viable site for an aire, draws up a prima facie case and makes contact with the council concerned with a view to showing how provision, in that place, would be beneficial to all.

Starting a petition like this, which will gain far fewer signatures than needed for any action, is a waste of time. Indeed, it could even damage the case in general because anyone wanting to argue against creating an aire could point to the lack of support which these petitions get as a reason why the expenditure would be a waste of time.
 

Allanm

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I've signed as well. As soon as people stop seeing Aires as potential money making schemes and provide them inline with other European countries guidelines, (and methods of funding) then we might be in with a chance of getting some.

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GJH

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I've signed as well. As soon as people stop seeing Aires as potential money making schemes and provide them inline with other European countries guidelines, (and methods of funding) then we might be in with a chance of getting some.
That got me thinking Allan. I've never actually seen written details of the guidelines and funding methods which govern provision of aires in other countries. Do you know if there are any (in English preferably) on-line? Are they the same in all other countries or do they vary between countries?
 
D

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That got me thinking Allan. I've never actually seen written details of the guidelines and funding methods which govern provision of aires in other countries. Do you know if there are any (in English preferably) on-line? Are they the same in all other countries or do they vary between countries?

There aren't any guidelines, it's another myth.

They are all different. They are all different sizes and have different facilities ranging from an identified area of an existing car park to places that are campsites in all but name. Some are provided by the local authority and are free or have a nominal charge, some are private and are run as commercial operations.
 
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2657

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There may not be universal guidelines regarding the facilities etc of aires (what exactly is an 'aire'?) but each country, possibly at regional level, has it's own rules and regulations about the setting up and use of 'aires'.

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There is probably a pot of money from European funding hidden away somewhere that our councils could get a grant to assist in the construction of aires, but probably very difficult to find.
 

johnp10

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Ive signed the aires one, they ought to be looking at this.

Im really surprised that GJH is anti.


Don't think Graham is anti, more like realistic.

To simply say "we want aires" is a non starter, as is to say that the provision of aires will boost the local economy.
How many posts do we see on this and other MH forums clearly stating many folk take all they need with them because Aldi is cheaper than a village shop?
The economy boost sermon cant be shown to stand up.
Also, quite a few don't seem to want to pay for anything, so free aires will become the norm?

The whole issue of providing aires in the UK is a non starter due to the authorities' lack of balls in preventing travellers setting up camp and turning parking areas into crap holes.
Not just travellers as such are guilty, the issue of piss takers is very much to the fore, with folk setting up for a fortnight's holiday, also turning car parks and the like into refugee camps.

The issue should be to compel Local Authorities and Police Forces to properly police parking areas, moving on over stayers, both travelers and MHers alike.
if Aires are required, that's the start point, surely?

I don't like the use of the term "compel" councils to provide.
Why should any council be forced to provide services other than those in the interests of its own council tax payers?
(Please don't come back with the usual garbage about how we pay council tax in our own areas...that entitles us to facilities in our areas, not globally.)
 

Allanm

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In many of the smaller, generally free Aires in France there are notices, usually on the service points saying where the funding has come from. It generally consists of funds and grants from EU, Marie, regional council, sports grounds ( if there are any) and local businesses ( if there are any).
 
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I didn't even know there was a charge for the Dartford crossing! Wasn't till we where almost on the crossing, managed to have a quick look online and seen charge was between 6 am to 10 pm, luckily I was crossing at 4.30 am, no doubt they'll be lots of outsider's getting caught out.
 

GJH

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There aren't any guidelines, it's another myth.

They are all different. They are all different sizes and have different facilities ranging from an identified area of an existing car park to places that are campsites in all but name. Some are provided by the local authority and are free or have a nominal charge, some are private and are run as commercial operations.
There may not be universal guidelines regarding the facilities etc of aires (what exactly is an 'aire'?) but each country, possibly at regional level, has it's own rules and regulations about the setting up and use of 'aires'.
28 Countries in the EU of which, if you are to believe the petition, 4 have Aires of one sort or another. This makes the UK the odd one out? I don't think so!
:cooler:
I thought it might be the case. that there is nothing universal or written. That would indicate, as previously mentioned in various posts, that each country has developed in response to its own national demands.
There is probably a pot of money from European funding hidden away somewhere that our councils could get a grant to assist in the construction of aires, but probably very difficult to find.
Probably? Hardly likely that there is a specific pot for aires. If there were then councils would soon have had their hands out.
In many of the smaller, generally free Aires in France there are notices, usually on the service points saying where the funding has come from. It generally consists of funds and grants from EU, Marie, regional council, sports grounds ( if there are any) and local businesses ( if there are any).
There are notices on all sorts of developments in the UK which point out that they are part funded by EU grants. The common factor is that the grant has been obtained when it has been shown that it will probably be money well spent. There are very few places in the UK where such a case has been made for aires.
Don't think Graham is anti, more like realistic.

To simply say "we want aires" is a non starter, as is to say that the provision of aires will boost the local economy.
How many posts do we see on this and other MH forums clearly stating many folk take all they need with them because Aldi is cheaper than a village shop?
The economy boost sermon cant be shown to stand up.
Also, quite a few don't seem to want to pay for anything, so free aires will become the norm?

The whole issue of providing aires in the UK is a non starter due to the authorities' lack of balls in preventing travellers setting up camp and turning parking areas into crap holes.
Not just travellers as such are guilty, the issue of piss takers is very much to the fore, with folk setting up for a fortnight's holiday, also turning car parks and the like into refugee camps.

The issue should be to compel Local Authorities and Police Forces to properly police parking areas, moving on over stayers, both travelers and MHers alike.
if Aires are required, that's the start point, surely?

I don't like the use of the term "compel" councils to provide.
Why should any council be forced to provide services other than those in the interests of its own council tax payers?
(Please don't come back with the usual garbage about how we pay council tax in our own areas...that entitles us to facilities in our areas, not globally.)
The only bit I would disagree with, John, is the travellers point. It isn't that LAs have a lack of balls but that they are hamstrung by national legislation. There are actually relatively few LA owned places which suffer the attentions of travellers, most illegal camp sites are set up on private land.

Your last point describes the crux - provision of aires does not, in most places, provide good value for taxpayers.

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Allanm

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As my last ( ish ) post, until the UK get rid of the idea that everything must make a profit ( good value for taxpayers) then we will never have many Aires in the UK.
The "traveller" excuse is always used as a scapegoat too. I am pretty sure there are very many travellers in France, and other parts of Europe, but you rarely see them clogging up the Aires.
Mainland Europe seems to be very forward thinking when it comes to providing leisure facilities whereas the UK is stuck in the past.
And for that reason, I'm out ( of the country, experiencing French hospitality)
 
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GJH

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As my last ( ish ) post, until the UK get rid of the idea that everything must make a profit ( good value for taxpayers) then we will never have many Aires in the UK.
The "traveller" excuse is always used as a scapegoat too. I am pretty sure there are very many travellers in France, and other parts of Europe, but you rarely see them clogging up the Aires.
Mainland Europe seems to be very forward thinking when it comes to providing leisure facilities whereas the UK is stuck in the past.
And for that reason, I'm out ( of the country, experiencing French hospitality)
"everything must make a profit" and "good value for taxpayers" are two different things, especially in the current financial climate. We have to remember that the systems in France, Germany &c have grown up over the years on parallel with the system in this country. Each has evolved to meet the needs of the population as a whole.
To expect every council in the land to create aires in at least one of the town/village centres they cover is not only laughable but it would cause a backlash from the far higher number of non-motorhomers who would see it for the waste it would be,
 

Weinsbergaman

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Don't like "Aires" or for better words "car park" "gravel park" "stick'em on top of each other park" and I've been over the Dartford a quite a few times this year with no problem at all & between 10pm & 6am it's FREE :)

Thanks Antony

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grumps147

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Irrespective of the rights or wrongs of tolling per se, my registration with the Dartford toll was simple. our journey south earlier in August was ok and for our 4500kg vehicle cost us £1.67. The WIDNES/RUNCORN bridge tolls when they start will cost far more for a much less strategic route. As for the Aires I am in Graham and Johns camp with this petition.
 
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D

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We always use aires in France and I guess if there was a network here we would use them in preference to pretty much anything other than Britstops but this isn't the way to get them.
 
D

Deleted member 29692

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Don't like "Aires" or for better words "car park" "gravel park" "stick'em on top of each other park"

Not a particularly useful or even accurate post.

This is an aire that we stayed on during our last trip.

IMG_0035.jpg

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2657

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Can't beat that, but looks like a site to me :)

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