On board gas tank. Advice required (1 Viewer)

[gus-lopez]

On my Mh it was originally built with an on board gas tank. There is no way using refillable cylinders externally as there are no lockers & nowhere to even install one. A previous owner obviously finding out that in Spain LPG filling stations are few & far between & certainly so back in 1990 when this was constructed , disconnected the tank & installed a 907 camping gaz cylinder in the only available space under the sink. He installed a vent through the floor & sealed , sort of , the cupboard door . I modified this whilst in the UK to enable me to use the 6.9kg UK propane cylinders.
I was hoping that on my return I would be able to use the similar sized repsol/cepsa cylinders but unfortunately they are to big in diameter for the locker as they have fancy plastic coats on. I can actually get the full size cylinders in but before I go down that route I was wondering about reusing the original tank ?
Now, firstly I've no idea when it was disconnected . It was manufactured in 1990 as that is embossed on it in 2" high figures . It has a capacity of 20L it says . It has a secondary smaller tank on the outlet ,I assume to flash off any liquid that may carry over, & this then feeds the regulator. Now the only thing disconnected/missing is the pipe from the regulator to the isolating valve before the manifold block.
I have thought of replacing the missing pipe & trying it but am concerned about whether the tank might have deteriorated, have rust inside , will regulator work, etc. I have even considered removing it & dismantling to see the condition , although this would entail remove the side panels as it is not possible to drop out from underneath.
I'd normally just think about buying a new tank & installing similar to what Tecno has just done but A , times are hard & B, it would have to come from the UK to be cost effective.
I'm leaning towards having it all off for a looksee but it is the regulator & whether it will function that is my main worry. Ideas & suggestions please & thanks in advance.

 

[Mikeco]

When I fitted my tank 2 years ago I did notice that they are supposed to be inspected and checked every 10 years. For that reason alone I would be a bit wary of using a tank that was installed 24 years ago without it being checked out.

 

[gus-lopez]

Yes , that is what made me ask as i was discussing it with a friend ,also an engineer, this morning & he was querying on that aspect of the testing. My head tells me that it needs inspecting at the very least ,which would then mean that it would be cheaper to obtain a new tank & install as the side panels would only need to be removed/replaced once that way.

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[martin1485]

Your life is worth more than the cost of a new tank

 

[tonyidle]

Or another view: most pressure vessels are tested / inspected in case there is visible external damage or internal corrosion. LPG tanks suffer no internal corrosion and the outside can easily be checked for corrosion and pitting. There are no doubt numerous elderly Hymer vans in use that have tanks installed when the van was new. I doubt very much whether the owners have had the LPG tank renewed or tested. It's easy to talk up the possibility of a disaster and each user has to make his own decision but if it were mine and the tank and fittings were visibly sound and in good condition I would make use of it.

If you decide to renew it a number of tanks available in the UK were sourced from the Netherlands: it might be worth searching the internet for suppliers (only slightly!) more local than the UK.

 

[bobandjanie]

If you can get a 6 kg calor bottle in, why not just get a 6 kg refillable bottle job done, they have a lot more places selling autogas in Spain now.
We got ours from Gas it.. Bob.

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[Taran_Las]

Link to Gas-it.​

 

[gus-lopez]

If you can get a 6 kg calor bottle in, why not just get a 6 kg refillable bottle job done, they have a lot more places selling autogas in Spain now.
We got ours from Gas it.. Bob.

Very true. I can actually get in the cepsa/Repsol 12.5kg bottles.What concerns me is that if I installed a refillable it would not be able to be accessed from outside. I haven't looked in to whether that would be ok/legal ?

Or another view: most pressure vessels are tested / inspected in case there is visible external damage or internal corrosion. LPG tanks suffer no internal corrosion and the outside can easily be checked for corrosion and pitting.

If you decide to renew it a number of tanks available in the UK were sourced from the Netherlands: it might be worth searching the internet for suppliers (only slightly!) more local than the UK.

Yes it was the testing aspect that we were discussing yesterday along with the fact of all these small air compressors that get sold & no one has tests on them.
I will have a look around in the EU to see what is available. I can't see that I would actually obtain one here in Spain for a sensible price.

 

[tonyidle]

Very true. I can actually get in the cepsa/Repsol 12.5kg bottles.What concerns me is that if I installed a refillable it would not be able to be accessed from outside. I haven't looked in to whether that would be ok/legal ?


Yes it was the testing aspect that we were discussing yesterday along with the fact of all these small air compressors that get sold & no one has tests on them.
I will have a look around in the EU to see what is available. I can't see that I would actually obtain one here in Spain for a sensible price.

Air compressor receivers are in much greater need of testing. Although they aren't usually subject to external damage or corrosion the insides are a different matter. They collect water because the compressed air cools in the receiver after being compressed. They should be, but rarely are, drained daily. They tend to corrode & I've seen some fairly horrific examples. LPG tanks don't corrode internally so removing your tank and thoroughly examining the outside of it including any connections would, if it is not damaged or corroded on the outside, be enough to give me confidence that all was well. And I would therefore be happy to use it.

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[Techno]

As pointed out by Jock in my underslung tank thread.
The 10 years certification is only relevant to LPG tanks used for vehicle propulsion and not for domestic use.
As Tony said tanks don't corrode inside as corrosion requires Oxygen.

If there is any rust due to being empty and disconnected I'm sure it will be very light and fitting an inline filter before the regulator would be the answer to that.

 

[Peter A Forbes]

We run two Discovery V8's on LPG, both have sill tanks.

Mine are 10 years old next year and a recent check showed them to be in pretty good nick, considering they are getting a fair bit of road dirt etc thrown at them.

At their 10th Anniversary we will take them out an check the straps etc., possibly repaint them.

Peter

 

[gus-lopez]

Well it has taken a while what with having to do other things but finally removed side panels & inspected the existing tank last week. Looked ok as did the small anti-liquid flash vessel on the discharge side.
Replaced the 'o' rings on the filler tube & repositioned the filler in the side skirt supported behind by the original substantial bracket.
New regulator & flexible hose connecting to new insulated pipe run across underneath & in to the manifold. I chose to install an additional valve allowing me to use a portable cylinder if it became necessary for any reason. I'll probably modify this again at a later date to become a barbecue point.
Pressure tested using bottle & all ok so this morning went over to the local caravan place where they have lpg & he put in 7 or 8 litres which is/was adequate for testing & everything is A1 . Well happy !
Tried everything individually & all working ok
So now I can get on & do some other things.lol

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[DJP]

I have tried a search on this topic without much success "refillable gas bottle pressure testing"
My Aluminium MTH Autogas refillable bottles are or were 10 years old this year and I understand they needed to be pressure tested.
The issue I had was finding a company to carry out the pressure test. I had no success from the major suppliers, Calor gas said yes, if it was a Calor bottle, they weren't so no. Gasit, Autogas 2000 and Gaslow don't offer the service either, not even to their own bottles!
I did find a company in Birmingham who said yes, but wanted the bottles sent by carrier and they would check and return them in 7/10 days. Not good as we are full time. The cost was also a staggering £162 EACH plus carriage to test them.
I have now invested in new Gasit bottles and pipes which should see us ok for the next 10 years.
I am only posting this now as an after event as I only became a subscriber yesterday, so please be gentle with me in your replies

 

[tonyidle]

You can have the integrity of all fittings and connections tested as you can with any other part of your LPG system - usually a basic leak test - but the tank? How would you propose that anyone could test it? The cost of doing so would very much outweigh simply replacing it. If deterioration hasn't occurred externally then it hasn't occurred at all. The only possible non-destructive test of a pressure vessel is to pressurise it hydraulically to a manufacturer-specified safe limit then to examine it for dimensional change. I can't imagine that the manufacturer does that with every brand new tank once the materials and dimensions have been tested on a prototype.

 

[DJP]

Hi, thanks for replies. We do use the BBQ point as gas supply whilst in Spain, it's not ideal and no doubt would be frowned upon in coutries who are more H&S aware.
A basic leak test does not comply with the regulation of a pressure test. The method is as you say to pressurise it to a very high pressure (unknown) to see if the bottle leaks. I think, but not certain that all new tanks must be pressure tested before they are put into circulation to check the integrity of the welds.
Regarding deterioration, I am told that aluminium bottles, which mine were can deteriorate from the inside due to the reaction of the propane gas and the aluminium. Another reason for wanting mine to be tested.
The point of this post was to make other owners or potential purchasers aware of the requirements of testing and the inability of suppliers, Gaslow, Gasit, Autogas currently to be able to carry out ant form of testing.
I ended up by a complete new instalation for peace of mind and to satisfy any insurance question should we experience an incident.

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