Mac Leopard & 10.5.1 update - Page 2

camcondor · 20-11-2007, 12:12 AM

Olley

You get what you pay for, generally. Windoze hardware is of variable quality, much of it poor, the OS is often unstable (esp Vista) , mIcrosoft software hugely overpriced, policed by Big Brother Gates' mates, and the experience is generally, well, functional rather than a pleasure. Plus attacks by virusses and other nasties are far more prevalent on the Windows platform than on a Mac. Lots of Windoze towers look absolutely tasteless and cheap, and many laptops fall apart rapidly after purchase. Not that Apple is perfect by any means - but the quality of the hardware and the OS ensures that its fanbase is expanding solidly. And the various mac platforms do not date for years - you can still use old G3 equipment quite well in todays world - while Windoze hardware is more or less out of date when you buy it and it needs upgrades far more often to run the bloated software packages than Macs do.

You can travel many miles in a Ford Fiesta as sure as can in my Audi S8, but I know which ride I prefer

Macs are not cheap - but then the best quality items rarely are. I believe I'm pretty impartial as I run both platforms and do all the support for two networks containing both Macs and Windoze units. Macs win every time. However, you can accomplish similar aims with either platform, so if you spend £400 on a cheap Windoze unit or £1500 on a Mac Book, whose to say either purchase is "right" or "wrong"?

I think people should try Macs - esp now when you can buy older hardware at bargain prices - if you want to compare the two platforms. Windoze users tend to change their laptops / towers every 2 years; for Macs the upgrade hardware times are longer - so prices are perhaps not as disparate as you would think, if you look at the computing experience over say a 10 year period.

Laurie

G2EWS · 20-11-2007, 07:00 AM

Great comparison Laurie, if a little harsh on the Windows world!

For me, the greatest saving I can see in my new found Mac world, will be the time saved in not having to re boot, re install or check out why something is not running properly.

As a Manager at the time for the company who originally sold Apple in the UK, I saw the amazing changes that the product brought. This was before MS produced Windows, which strangely enough was almost identical to Apples'! I still have the Mac SE with 9" mono screen in my loft that revolutionised the printing industry.

I should add that but for some great advice of people from the other forum, I may never have gone down the Apple route again, but thank goodness I did! The remaining 5 computers will be replaced with Mac's as they slowly meet their demise!

Regards

Chris

Jim · 20-11-2007, 07:41 AM

I think Windows suffers a bit like Brownhills, They sell so many and whilst the comparatively few complaints about them are loud, the vast majority of the customers are very happy.

The combination of XP Pro and IE7 is as stable a platform as I have seen since my old Amstrad 9256 and logoscript. I have XP loaded machines running continuously and with weeks between re-boots, and then those reboots are only to reclaim a bit of leaked memory. Wild horses would not drag me from it, not to vista or to mac. XP Pro is just too good.

ScotJimland · 20-11-2007, 09:01 AM

I find it strange that people who have never used, let alone owned a Mac, are so loyal to Windoze and so outspoken in there defense, how do they make a judgment ?
I'm not a computer geek, I don't need to be, no more than I need to be a motor mechanic to compare two cars.. but I need to at least test drive to make an objective decision, I might prefer the look and style of a BMW compared to a Ford but it tells me nothing about how they both perform, how reliable they are, service costs, longevity etc etc , I could read road reports but this would still tell me nothing about how it actually feels to own and drive one...
I did just exactly that with Macs, I took a test drive about 7 years ago and the rest as they say is history, I promptly sold my two desk top family PCs and bought a 10" iBook..
That was my fist Mac, Jan got one soon afterwards, I've now got a 17" Power Book, Jan and Paul use 14" iBooks. The only issue I've ever had is the power adaptor, they are very delicate and the cords can be easily broken, I had one replaced under warranty.. other than that.. nothing, not even a service call to Mac..
Until I retired I used XP Pro at work, but couldn't wait to get home to use my Mac.. I love it, something I never said about my PC..

Please take time out and give them a try, go to a proper Apple store and ask for a demo or ask a friend .. you will not regret it..

Read the following for the geeky bits..

Common Myths About the Mac
Myth: Windows and Linux applications don’t run on a Mac.
Fact: You can run most anything on Macs, no matter what the platform.
Boot Camp from Apple, you can dual-boot your system into either Mac OS X or Windows XP. Alternatively, using virtualization software such as Parallels Desktop for Mac or VMWare, you can run Windows XP, Linux, or any other operating system simultaneously with Mac OS X.

Myth: Macs can’t run Microsoft Office.
Fact: Macs can run Microsoft Office, and the files you create on Mac are fully compatible with Windows.
Microsoft Office 2004 for Mac OS X gives you full-featured Word, Powerpoint, and Excel with the same familiar interfaces. And for any Microsoft application that’s not yet available for Mac — like Microsoft Access or Project — you can run them on Intel-based Macs using Boot Camp or virtualization software like Parallels or VMWare.

Myth: Macs won’t fit into my network.
Fact: Mac OS X can talk to every major file server protocol on every major server platform on the market today.
Mac OS X includes the major networking protocols for accessing every major server platform, including Windows, Linux, and UNIX. Mac OS X is the most compatible operating system available today.

Myth: Macs are expensive.
Fact: Apple hardware and software offer tremendous value.
Owning a Mac offers the scientist a cost-effective solution and great return on investment. The Mac is designed for optimal productivity with exceptional price/performance and minimal investment for the most innovative computing features offered on any platform.

Myth: Macs are proprietary.
Fact: Mac OS X is an open architecture, based on industry standards.
It’s based on an open source variant of FreeBSD UNIX and developed entirely with openness and interoperability in mind. Mac OS X incorporates the major open standards for directory services, programming and scripting languages, interprocess communications and arithmetic libraries.

Myth: New Mac users and IT staff face a steep learning curve.
Fact: The Mac — it just works.
Mac users are up and running quickly thanks to the well-designed, intuitive user interface of Mac OS X. On the IT side, the Mac makes system administration so easy you can expand your existing compute infrastructure without increasing your IT staff.

Myth: The Mac OS X operating system isn’t stable.
Fact: Mac OS X is based on UNIX, a platform renowned for its stability.
Beneath the surface of Mac OS X lies an industrial-strength UNIX foundation integrating a Mach 3.0 microkernel and state-of-the-art FreeBSD 5 variant.

Myth: You can’t develop cross-platform applications on a Mac.
Fact: Cross-platform development is one of the many strengths of Mac OS X.
Mac OS X is a superior development platform that includes a robust set of developer tools allowing you to develop and test cross-platform applications.

Myth: Apple only makes iPods.
Fact: Apple makes serious computers for serious science.
In addition to making iPods, Apple develops the technology to tackle the most demanding computational and visualization problems facing scientists today. In the MacBook Pro notebook, Mac Pro scientific workstation, and Xserve server, you’ll find the high-performance 64-bit computing, advanced graphics, and scalable memory and storage capacity needed to handle your big data requirements.

olley · 20-11-2007, 09:41 AM

Criky don't you mac guys get upset when someone suggests that macs aren't the best.

The fact of the matter is PC don't fall to pieces, they don't crash every 5 minutes, they do offer better value for money than macs. Why would I want to run my windows programmes on a mac? when I can run them for half the price on a PC?

I run 10 pc's 8 of which are on permanently on, 5 on one network 3 on another and 2 solo. After 3 years 1 now needs replacing. 2 years ago on the 5 network the server had a power supply failure, 30 mins to transferred the backup to another and we were up and running again. Drove down to PCWorld bought new power supply for £30, 2 hours after that all fixed. Can you do that with a mac? No. don't say they never go wrong, because that's bull.

XP is good stable system, it may not quite as good as the mac system, the computers may not look as flashy, but like a ford they keep going and when they fail parts are cheap.

Mac's do get viruses, its just that as 90% of PC's are Windows so 90% of hackers target windows. I don't use computers because I love them, I use them as a tool, in exactly the same way as I use a car, I drive a 10 year old galaxy, sure I would like an Audi, but will it get me from a to b any quicker, no only at greater cost and in more comfort. So I will stick to the Ford.

Olley

ScotJimland · 20-11-2007, 09:53 AM

Ohh my ... who is getting his knickers in a twist..

Well, there are plenty of creationists still out there and for a while the flat-earthers held sway, despite all the evidence. It may be a geeky urban myth, but I understand from reliable sources that Bill Gates himself uses Macs at home.

nuff said

olley · 20-11-2007, 10:07 AM

Hi Jim, remember Betamax? it was the best system, but what happened to it? Ultimately what you and I prefer matters not a jot, its what the mass of people buy, and while most home PC's are bought because they can run ALL the latest games, PC's will rule the roost.

For anything but gaming most home users could get by with windows for work groups on a 486, and a similar old spec mac, but the power of advertising, hey.

Olley

Jim · 20-11-2007, 11:13 AM

Hi Jim, to try a mac would cost me money, I already have a very heavy investment in Windows Software and Hardware and because it works very well I am reluctant to change. Aesthetics and being slightly more user friendly for novices is not going to make me want to invest. Now if i was burgled and all my PC's and Software stolen I would look seriously at mac.

As an aside, would the Adobe Creative Suite, and Office 2007 etc that i have for windows install on a Mac or would I have to replace them with mac versions because just that software alone costs £2000+

olley · 20-11-2007, 11:42 AM

Hi if your computer does what you want and is reasonably reliable why change? For me I cannot see any overriding reason to, even if the mac was twice as good and never fell over. It ain't broke so why fix it??

Olley

camcondor · 20-11-2007, 03:01 PM

Jim
You can run Windoze software on the new Intel macs as the OS has built-in Boot Camp, allowing the use of Win XP on the Mac and all your Windoze software. However, older Macs may not be so seamless - there are however software packages like Parallel Desktop and suchlike that allow you to run Win XP on IBM based Macs though, so you would be able to use expensive software you have already purchased.
Microsoft will stop supporting XP at some future date, so your honeymoon with the most stable version of Windoze may have to come to end and when its time to upgrade hardware and/or software perhaps you may want to consider a Mac.

Olley and the rest of the Mac-bashers:

For me, a lot in life is about the quality of the ride, yes I could arrive in a Micra, but would I want to? No. I would like to enjoy my cars, computers and other nice material items, not just utilise them in a utilitarian and basic manner. I spend hours of my life with computers, so I strive to make it the best possible experience I can afford. That's why many people buy new cars / furniture / TVs etc etc, not because the old stuff didn't work. And it is important to a lot of people not to have cheap, bizarre-looking PC equipment which looks like it flew in from outer space-due to space constraints, computer hardware is taking on a mulimedia role in living rooms more and more, and PC tat in yucky or boring plastic just doesn't do it.
Yes, PC parts are easier for the general public to source, but I disagree that Macs are "difficult" to fix - they are not. I do both, so speak from complete experience. PC parts collapse a lot more often in my experience, too. Mac compatible parts are easy to find if you know what you need and know what you are doing with a Macs innards. I've never had a problem repairing or upgrading Macs - laptops or desktops. I look after two networks as well each containing Macs and PCs.

G2EWS:

Welcome to the happy and exclusive fold. Long may your Mac serve you. They are fine pieces of engineering and style if you can afford the premium - not everyone wants or needs the understated elegance provided by Mac hardware and software.

I'm really surprised at the angry retorts from some non-Mac users though, surely to speak from evidence-based experience is the only REAL way to compare the two platforms? Don't knock what you don't know!! Maybe the dark days are getting to everyone......roll on Spring!!!!!