Purewateronline Lose Distribution Rights as Members Refunded

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Members who were supplied ineffective filters by Harald Charters while he worked as an employee of General Ecology or later, as an independent distributor known as PureWaterOnline Ltd; are to be refunded and compensated by General Ecology the filter manufacturer.

Those who purchased the Nature Pure QC system, expecting to be protected from bacteria and viruses but were supplied the wrong canister; will receive a full refund at todays price of £288 for the system and receive 4 filters of their choice, approx value £350, free of charge.  Members will need their receipt and or serial number to receive the cash and canisters

Please contact General Ecology  directly with the information requested to claim your payment and canister choice, or with any questions, at info@generalecology.com or +1 844 441 8166 (toll free). 

General Ecology have also said in a press release that as of today Purewateronline Ltd no longer have distribution rights for their products. For full details see Press Release >> Nature Pure QC Customer notice- 1.26.17

Jim Brown

Jim Brown

Jim is a long time motorhome enthusiast travelling extensively in the UK and Europe. Averaging 12000 motorhome miles a year. He has owned many motorhomes both British and Continental. His present motorhome is a 27ft C class RV.
Jim Brown
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I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

129 Comments

  1. This is the difference.  The magazines would have hidden this for fear of upsetting a regular advertiser.

    Also as the magazines take Weeks, if not Months to publish anything newsworthy, it's not news by the time it is published, allowing the miscreant time to put "plans in place"  Issue statements like "We've learnt from this" "This must never happen again"

    The "Pen may be mightier than the Sword" but the keyboard exposes deceit

  2. Well done to everyone who was involved in the successful resolution of this issue. It just shows how much power this forum is able to exert in such circumstances.

    I believe that General Ecology have been very honourable in their efforts to compensate members, Fiat could learn a lot from them, their reaction to Jddergate was the polar opposite.

  3. Wonder who will become their UK distributor now – maybe an opening for you there Jim. Id always had my reservations about Harald as far back as 2000 when were building our narrowboat and fitting out.

  4. Well to everyone involved and a special well done to Andy (Techno) for spotting this anomaly .

  5. I have – I would have thought a condition of his demise would have been removal of any GE references on his website. To anyone who doesn't know he is still their sole European distributor.

  6. Excellent result. The customer is always right and the sharpster gets his come uppance!

    No doubt the manufacturer will sue him for what he has been doing!

    Good riddance!

  7. I have – I would have thought a condition of his demise would have been removal of any GE references on his website. To anyone who doesn't know he is still their sole European distributor.

    Hopefully its just because it takes time for his web guys to get onto it.

    Martin

  8. I have – I would have thought a condition of his demise would have been removal of any GE references on his website. To anyone who doesn't know he is still their sole European distributor.

    Wouldn't he be given a certain length of time to alter his publicity material & stationery?

    I presume though, he wouldn't be allowed to complete existing orders or take new ones & any 'stock' to be returned to the manufacturer.

    Assuming he's being "honourable" :cautious: ?

  9. Haralds website makes no mention of them being cast adrift by General Ecology, in fact just the opposite.

    http://www.purewateronline.co.uk/files/TRANSITIONLETTERPWOL.pdf

    Well GE are pretty clear he's not their distributor as of midnight last night.  I'm guessing, but I'd have thought Harald only learned of this in the last 24 hours or so. I would think that the website is outsourced, so changes will take time and likely he'll be given a bit of grace to remove GE Products.

  10. It's realistically unlikely that this would have come to a resolution without you Jim

    So under direction from Jacs any money we receive back from general ecology will also be donated to myaware as and when they pay it (y)

  11. I paused my imminent purchase when Andy @Techno first brought this to our attention, thank you Andy. Thank you also Jim for following through with this and liaising with General Ecology.

    Thank you GE for your Customer Care attitude, it just makes you stronger when your customer base sings your praises.

    Griff

  12. So when this system is working properly do you recycle your grey water?

    OMG – genius!  Chris either you could make a fortune or I'm reading this through Night Nurse induced hallucinating eyes…..

  13. I congratulate MHF on a well researched, very helpful and very well presented example of consumer lobbying.

    It would have taken 6 months longer to have dealt with this in any other way

  14. Well done to Jim, MHF and especially Eagle Eyed Andy for bringing it all to light – an amazing result – just REALLY glad that no one seems to have suffered any ill health effects from this, and that the situation hopefully can never happen again. (y)

  15. The time and efforts of Jim in regards to this matter are greatly appreciated, I believe Jim has gone above and beyond for all those concerned.

     :thanks4:

    And of course a virtual larger on me for @Techno for bringing this matter to our attention(y)

  16. So when this system is working properly do you recycle your grey water?

    You can do.  The demonstration they do at the Crick boat show is to pump dirty water straight from the river and filter it and allow people to drink it

    They are that good (When your supplied the correct filter of course)

  17. I paused my imminent purchase when Andy @Techno first brought this to our attention, thank you Andy.


    Thank you also Jim for following through with this and liaising with General Ecology.


    Thank you GE for your Customer Care attitude, it just makes you stronger when your customer base sings your praises.


    Griff

  18. The strange this, I probably would never have considered buying one before I read this. Now I am interested (with the correct filter of course)

  19. I reckon you should filter your black waste through them as well.

    Just think no more visits to the chemical disposal(y)

  20. I reckon you should filter your black waste through them as well.

    Just think no more visits to the chemical disposal(y)

    If you get one Chris I will personally come round and wee in your fresh water tank every morning – FREE !

    I normally reserve this service for any French Motorhomes that we come across, but am happy to make an exception in your case.

  21. The strange thing is, I probably would never have considered buying one before I read this. Now I am interested (with the correct filter of course)

    I was a recent convert when I changed my van last time

    It will be one of the first things to be fitted on the next one

  22. I was a recent convert when I changed my van last time

    It will be one of the first things to be fitted on the next one

    Thanks Eddie. Whilst we're never on the road that long, carrying around bottle water all the time adds to weight and takes up valuable storage. I just need to be sure I get the correct filter, installation looks like a doddle

  23. I reckon you should filter your black waste through them as well.

    Just think no more visits to the chemical disposal(y)

    Chris, I was with you on the grey water recycling, but I think this may be a filter tooooooo far…… :sick:

  24. Don't worry Dave, they mention in their Press Release that they are looking at appointing a new distributor, I doubt they'll want to leave it too long before doing so yy

  25. OldAgeTravellers on

    We have one of the original filters, did they have two types of cartridge? Some time ago we bought a replacement filter from Harold and I got ill when filtering well water, he was very rude and only replaced the faulty one when I threatened to use the media, but the new one just doesn’t seem as good as the original one. I am now wondering if he was up to the same game with the original units!
    Steve

  26. If you get one Chris I will personally come round and wee in your fresh water tank every morning – FREE !

    I normally reserve this service for any French Motorhomes that we come across, but am happy to make an exception in your case.

    I wondered what that bloody taste was when you parked next to us in France that time!  😀

  27. The strange thing is, I probably would never have considered buying one before I read this. Now I am interested (with the correct filter of course)

    And me

  28. We have one of the original filters, did they have two types of cartridge? Some time ago we bought a replacement filter from Harold and I got ill when filtering well water, he was very rude and only replaced the faulty one when I threatened to use the media, but the new one just doesn't seem as good as the original one. I am now wondering if he was up to the same game with the original units!

    Steve

    I have used the old type filters for quite a few years, the last one has always left a lot of muck on the tea cup but always tastes o.k.Phoned any moaned but just fobbed off.I was going to peterboro show to put it to him in front of customers, no good now though

  29. Thank you so much to all concerned in raising this issue and acheiving this fantastic outcome! We have just checked our current filter, purchased at Peterborough last year from Harland. It's the wrong one, so I've just sent email to the Company in USA as instructed. I'll update her once I hear from them. Thank you again!!

  30. Last year we bought a new cartridge to carry as a spare. Following the information raised by Techno I checked it and found it to be the wrong item. I contacted General Ecology UK who promised to send a replacement free of charge. It was sent out to Spain by airmail and following a three week journey from the Spanish airport it has arrived.

    Well done General Ecology.

    (Pathetic Correos)

    Having got the replacement I checked the original cartridge supplied with the original unit. It was also the wrong cartridge.

    Cathryn is now in communication with General Ecology UK about the compensation arrangement secured by FUN.

    Thanks Techno and Jim.

  31. Last year we bought a new cartridge to carry as a spare. Following the information raised by Techno I checked it and found it to be the wrong item. I contacted General Ecology UK who promised to send a replacement free of charge. It was sent out to Spain by airmail and following a three week journey from the Spanish airport it has arrived.

    Well done General Ecology.

    (Pathetic Correos)

    Having got the replacement I checked the original cartridge supplied with the original unit. It was also the wrong cartridge.

    Cathryn is now in communication with General Ecology UK about the compensation arrangement secured by FUN.

    Thanks Techno and Jim.

    I think it's the US company you need to be in contact with.

  32. I sent an email to the US company yesterday evening and received the following reply this afternoon:

    Thank you for your e-mail, we can confirm that we have received your claim and we will be arranging for payments and initial shipment of replacement canisters this week.

    We will notify you by e-mail when your payment and canisters ship.

    Thanks and regards

    General Ecology Inc

    Keeping everything crossed that they are true to their promises!

  33. I think it's the US company you need to be in contact with.

    Quite correct. UK have notified USA who have emailed asking for relevant info. That has now been sent.

  34. You didn't need to do that @Techno, but thank you very much, you are most kind.  (y) 😀

    It's money we did not expect nor need Jim,I'll be happy to get free filters.

    I hope others will give a bit

  35. I think this only goes to show what a good organisation the American company is, and how badly they were let down by their previous UK distributor.

  36. Great work @Techno and also very well done to the US company.  (y)

    They've responded to this mess not really of their making admirably.  Not all companies would have done.

  37. Fantastic result. We bought at the Peterborough motohome show in good faith. It turns out we were sold an inferior product. What makes it all the more worrying is that we believed it filtered to a level that protected us from a cryptosporidium outbreak which affected the water supply in Lancashire last year, so we drank the water from our van!!! It seems it didn't and I'm fuming about that!! How dare they put our lives at risk ? However, thankfully, we've lived to tell the tale.

  38. @Techno

    Just ran a test to compare the 620 Bacterial cartridge with the 622 Limescale cartridge.

    Flow rate on the 620 Bacterial cartridge was just 2 litres per minute – not the 3 litres promised in the literature. The flow was very poor and would not be acceptable if used through the kitchen tap.

    Flow rate on the 622 Limescale cartridge was better at 3.5 litres per minute. (3 litres quoted performance)

    I'm guessing that's maybe the reason why Harald was switching the bacterial cartridges for the limescale ones.

    I've also got a 3M – E2 filter system at home which I will connect and test after the weekend, when I've got a bit more time. The 3M E2 filter promises 4 litres per minute and over 99.9% bacterial, cyst and algae reduction, with a 0.2 micron filter.

    Will post more details of the test if anyone is interested.

  39. I've also got a 3M – E2 filter system at home which I will connect and test after the weekend, when I've got a bit more time. The 3M E2 filter promises 4 litres per minute and over 99.9% bacterial, cyst and algae reduction, with a 0.2 micron filter.

    Will post more details of the test if anyone is interested.

    I'll be interested in seeing how that 3m filter goes (y)

  40. I've also got a 3M – E2 filter system at home which I will connect and test after the weekend, when I've got a bit more time. The 3M E2 filter promises 4 litres per minute and over 99.9% bacterial, cyst and algae reduction, with a 0.2 micron filter.

    Will post more details of the test if anyone is interested.

    Do you know if the .2 is nominal or actual?

  41. I've also got a 3M – E2 filter system at home which I will connect and test after the weekend, when I've got a bit more time. The 3M E2 filter promises 4 litres per minute and over 99.9% bacterial, cyst and algae reduction, with a 0.2 micron filter.

    Will post more details of the test if anyone is interested.

    Robert, did the 3M kit come with everything you needed to fit it to the motorhome plumbing or were there bits missing that you needed to add.

  42. Robert, did the 3M kit come with everything you needed to fit it to the motorhome plumbing or were there bits missing that you needed to add.

    I needed to get a few bits – they did email asking what I wanted, but I gave them the wrong pipe size.

    Will post a full spec when I switch the filters over and run the test – most likely on Monday

  43. After being a "read only" guy for a few years now, I thought it only fair to pay up so I could personally thank @Techno and Fun for finding out about this filter debacle. We bought our filter from Harald at the NEC October '15 ready to fit in our new Carthago when it was delivered. After reading about incorrect filters being supplied by Harald I checked ours to find it to be the wrong one. I contacted him to tell him and I got a " sorry for the mix up" and a replacement correct filter.

    I also contacted General Ecology in the US and I received the refund and filters as per this thread.

    So, thank you to Andy for spotting this, only he could go to such lengths to find a solution to what many would just think was normal. I have donated to the charity and become a Funster as well.

    Looking forward to meeting up with new and old faces at rallies, kept the same user name from "the dark side" so some may remember me.

     

    Colin

  44. It will be interesting to see if Purewateronline will have a stall at the upcoming NEC show and, if they do, what they are selling.  I suspect they may be quieter than in previous years.

  45. After being a "read only" guy for a few years now, I thought it only fair to pay up so I could personally thank @Techno and Fun for finding out about this filter debacle. We bought our filter from Harald at the NEC October '15 ready to fit in our new Carthago when it was delivered. After reading about incorrect filters being supplied by Harald I checked ours to find it to be the wrong one. I contacted him to tell him and I got a " sorry for the mix up" and a replacement correct filter.

    I also contacted General Ecology in the US and I received the refund and filters as per this thread.

    So, thank you to Andy for spotting this, only he could go to such lengths to find a solution to what many would just think was normal. I have donated to the charity and become a Funster as well.

    Looking forward to meeting up with new and old faces at rallies, kept the same user name from "the dark side" so some may remember me.

    Colin

    Hello and welcome:wb:

  46. Just fitted and tested the E2 Bacterial Filter by 3M

     

    Was pleased to discover that the performance a smidge under 4 Litres per minute, compared with 2 litres per minute for the General Ecology bacterial filter at 2 litres.

    I've contacted General Ecology to ask why their filter failed to deliver 3 litres per minute, and will post their reply when it arrives.

  47. Robert, did the 3M kit come with everything you needed to fit it to the motorhome plumbing or were there bits missing that you needed to add.

    Here is a link to the 3M – E2 filter

    https://www.pozzani.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1686

    Here is a link to the AP3 head unit

    https://www.pozzani.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=515

    The head unit has standard push fit 3/8" pipe connectors on each side. You can order an optional connection kit, which included piece of 1/4" pipe and a little self cutting tap, but I didn't use these as I wanted maximum flow, and was planning to fit the filter in-line to the cold supply of the sink tap.

    I ended up purchasing a short length of John Guest 3/8" Speed Fit pipe of Ebay

    A few John Guest Speed Fit 3/8" elbows

    A couple of adaptors to connect onto the 15mm (outside diameter) pipe. Again found 15mm to 3/8" John Guest Speed Fit reducers on Ebay.

    Fitting was VERY quick and easy – Hope this helps?

    Edit; Picked up this cheap pipe cutter of Ebay

    Made cutting the pipe, quick and easy and gave a nice clean cut

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=pnumatic&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xpnumatic+tube+cutter.TRS0&_nkw=pnumatic+tube+cutter&_sacat=0

  48. Here is a link to the 3M – E2 filter

    https://www.pozzani.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1686

    Here is a link to the AP3 head unit

    https://www.pozzani.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=515

    The head unit has standard push fit 3/8" pipe connectors on each side. You can order an optional connection kit, which included piece of 1/4" pipe and a little self cutting tap, but I didn't use these as I wanted maximum flow, and was planning to fit the filter in-line to the cold supply of the sink tap.

    I ended up purchasing a short length of John Guest 3/8" Speed Fit pipe of Ebay

    A few John Guest Speed Fit 3/8" elbows

    A couple of adaptors to connect onto the 15mm (outside diameter) pipe. Again found 15mm to 3/8" John Guest Speed Fit reducers on Ebay.

    Fitting was VERY quick and easy – Hope this helps?

    Thanks Robert.  Does the head unit allow you to take the filter off to change it without having to switch off or drain the water line?

  49. Thanks Robert.  Does the head unit allow you to take the filter off to change it without having to switch off or drain the water line?

    Yes it does Peter

    There is also a bypass bung, which I've contacted the suppliers about, as I'd like to have one.

    I'm going to test the filter over the coming months and see if it lasts the 6 months that 3M suggest

  50. The way it reads to me is if it only reduced 1% for example then it still fulfills their claim of UP to 99.99% but is in fact falling far below peoples expectations.

    PS @Chris your calculation should read 0.01%;):D2

  51. @Robert Clark The 3m filter claims "Reduces up to 99.99% of bacteria etc" so 1% would be ok then?;)

    The 3M filter does not claim to be 100%, but upto 99.9% is good enough for me.

    However my experience of the Nature Pure Filter is that it does not filter the 3 litres volume of water they claim it to.

    @Techno returned his because it did not filter the 3000 litres of water they claimed it to.

    I guess you pays your money and takes your choice.

  52. It's not claiming to reduce bacteria BY 99.99% only UP to 99.99% so therefore if it only reduced for example by 1% it still meets their claim.:?:

  53. I hate that "Up To" conditional statement.  Up to 78Mbps broad band speed.

    On that basis I am up to 99.99% as attractive as George Clooney :whistle::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

  54. The data sheets for these indicate that the reduce greater than (>) 99.99% of bacteria etc.

    The exact opposite of the claim on the side of the box.:?:

    Perhaps they should print up some labels to put over the box figures.:D2:D2:D2

  55. @Robert Clark The 3m filter claims "Reduces up to 99.99% of bacteria etc" so 1% would be ok then?;)

    It's virtually impossible to kill all bacteria. You might think boiling water would kill all the bugs – it doesn't.  There are things called "lethality tables" which show the percentage of bacteria killed.  About the best you can expect is heating something to 105°C for say three minutes. This will kill something like 99.999997% of bacteria (from memory 🙂  ) but the point is,  it isn't 100%.

    Filters will be less efficient but the body can cope with the reduced number of "invaders".

  56. Purewateronline would appear to be still in the business of selling as a distributer

    Yes I noticed, though he is out of stock of a few items so it looks like they are not supplying him.

  57. Purewateronline would appear to be still in the business of selling as a distributer

    Probably stock that they've already purchased from the manufacturer??

  58. Call me old fashioned but I just buy a couple of bottles of mineral water.

    With a predominant fluid intake of beer and tea I'm sure you are pretty safe Chris. '

  59. Would it be fair to say that the 0.2 micron filter of the E2 is twice as effective as the 0.4 micron filter of the Nature Pure?

    I'm not sure. The Seagull iV is 0.1 nominal. So it filters smaller that the 3M.  I don't know what the QC is Nominal we only know the .4 actual.  But if you read the GE  "Structured Matrix" literature it is not just the barrier. They use other technology such as Electrostatic Removal, whatever that is.

  60. Would it be fair to say that the 0.2 micron filter of the E2 is twice as effective as the 0.4 micron filter of the Nature Pure?

    Mathematically it has a quarter of the area so I guess it depends on your definition of efficiency.  This is a complex subject as I think you need to take into account the size of the bugs which are harmful to humans.  Bacteria may slip through 0.2 microns which are harmful to say slugs but not to humans.  It's a bit like the canning analogy I tried to use above.  I believe the bugs directly harmful to humans are generally all killed at lower temperatures but the ones which can spoil the food in the tin aren't.

    Caveat: I'm remembering things from over forty years ago when I worked in the food processing industry so my memory may not be reliable.   🙂

  61. They use other technology such as Electrostatic Removal, whatever that is.

    That might be the same technology that Mrs C uses to keep her hairy legs under control

  62. @Jim

    This is all so confusing!'

    I have a pdf for the seagull iv quote

    'physically removes disease bacteria, pathogenic cysts like Giardia, Cryptosporidia, and other specific parasites and debris down to 0.4 microns. Removing pathogens also removes disease-causing toxins in the organisms.'

    So where do you get your 0.1 micron from?

    Ps how do you upload a pdf file?

  63. Sod that then.

    I am sticking to San Miguel

    Wise man.

    But on a serious note,  beer,  often "small beer"  was drunk in days gone by because it was much safer than water.  The boiling of the malt killed virtually all the bugs.

  64. Wise man.

    But on a serious note,  beer,  often "small beer"  was drunk in days gone by because it was much safer than water.  The boiling of the malt killed virtually all the bugs.

    It's why Siân drinks Gin 😉

  65. Operating Temperature ……………………………33° F – 100° F (0.5° C – 38° C)**

    Flow Rate ………………………………………………………1.0 Gallon/min (3.8 Liters/min)

    Cartridge Capacity*, Avg. ………………………………….1,000 Gallons (3800 Liters)

    Operating Pressure …………………………………………………………….25 psi – 125 psi

    Particle Retention……………………………………………………………………..0.4 – micron

    Seagull®IV X-1F Purifier, chrome faucet ………………………………….p/n 732000

    RS-1SG Replacement Cartridge ……………………………………………….p/n 788000

  66. The boiling of the malt killed virtually all the bugs.

    And those that were left were too hammered to do any harm, instead they just repeatedly stated how much they loved humans, not just a bit but they really loved humans.   😀

  67. Wise man.

    But on a serious note,  beer,  often "small beer"  was drunk in days gone by because it was much safer than water.  The boiling of the malt killed virtually all the bugs.

    Unfortunately some unscrupulous landlords then added water to the beer, which could be contaminated.

  68. Given the choice Jim, would you go back to the Seagul ?

    Looks like the flow rate is far superior to the Nature Pure, and it says it can be connected in line to the sink tap.

  69. Don't you think some of you guys are going just a little bit over the top? If your sourcing your water from a pond then I can see the point, but tap water in Europe is pretty pure and safe to drink, and if the human race was as susceptible to bugs and germs as some of you seem to believe, I think we would have died out a million years ago.

  70. Don't know what the flow rate is, we only use it for drinking. As long as we turn the tap on and water comes out and it's fit for drinking we're happy.

    The Seagull has been around for years, hasn't been tampered with, has more capacity and is cheaper, so we went for it.(y)

  71. Don't you think some of you guys are going just a little bit over the top?

    Some of us travel to Morocco and places where the water quality is not safe

    Others visit Aires and campsites where other people flush their toilet casettes with the same hose pipe that is used for drinking water

    Other people are immune suppressed and are more easily affected by water bourne contaminants

  72. Don't know what the flow rate is, we only use it for drinking. As long as we turn the tap on and water comes out and it's fit for drinking we're happy.

    The Seagull has been around for years, hasn't been tampered with, has more capacity and is cheaper, so we went for it.(y)

    Cheaper in what way?

    The head unit is £353

    http://www.purewateronline.co.uk/700008-X-1B-Seagull-R-IV-Basic.html

    Compared with the Nature Pure at £240

    http://www.purewateronline.co.uk/420430-Nature-Pure-Quick-Change-Basic.html

    Did I miss read something?

  73. My guess is that the tap does not have a microswitch, so would be no good for my water system.

     You are correct, we just "crack" the sink tap enough to switch on the pump on ours and it works fine.(y)

  74. Did the fittings pack include the threaded pipe inserts ?

    No, the fittings supplied are 3/8" NPT. The fittings in your photo are the QC ones which i've kept on the van but made brass reducers from 3/8" NPT down to 9/16-24 tpi which is the thread on the end of the nylon connectors in you photo.

    I couldn't source a nylon fitting with 38 NPT in the UK and the postage from USA was crazy.

    PS. I've kept the original QC system tap which meant an adaptor was required for that whereas if you use the supplied tap you only need one adaptor.

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