Purewateronline. As pure as they make out?

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Members duped by Purewateronline 

Customers of Purewateronline bought expensive equipment and thought they were filtering their drinking water for bacteria and viruses. However, they were being lied to.  The Filter Canister supplied by Purewateronline was not capable of filtering bacteria; it was a limescale filter.  

Lots of motorhome owners have seen horrendous things at fresh water taps across the world; such as people using it to wash dog poo off a shoe to rinsing their toilet cassette.  We are all susceptible to bugs that might live in dirty water supplies, this is especially so for the old, unwell or the very young. For this reason many of us have relied on a water purification system to filter out the nasties.

The leader in the field by far, has been the filters and systems supplied by the well respected General Ecology in the US and distributed in the UK latterly by Purewateronline.   Details about how purewater on line its were discovered cheating our members is outlined below.

Suspicions about the efficacy of the filter canister supplied by Purewateronline .

Back in April 2016, after purchasing one of the new Quick Change systems from Purewateronline one of our members expressed some concern here when he said…

Today I have had to replace the filter cartridge after just over a year. This is extremely disappointing given how little it is used. The flow rate had become pitiful and so not a realistic proposition. Changing the cartridge has immediately restored flow rate but I cannot believe it has filtered anywhere near its service life claims. Considering the price of this new breed of filters it is not acceptable IMHO so I cannot recommend it.

Techno noticed issues with the replacement and posted this .

The filter I removed and the replacement are part number 420420. The one I have left and most recently purchased is part number 420422 Oddly there is a significant weight difference between the old and the new of 195grams? Question has this been redesigned due to length of service issues? I feel short changed.

The inferior filter supplied by Purewateronline

In December 2016 someone asked Techno for and update, and he posted this .   He is happy with the flow rate but still suspicious the filter might be inferior.

Water flow is still fine from the lighter filter but I don’t believe it offers the same level of filtering as the one originally supplied that was accredited by an official body. The lighter filter that looks identical is the one that is supplied now across the board and there is no published evidence that it has the same level of protection.

Discovery that the canister supplied was not as described

Subsequent trawling the web by @Techno and @Robert Clark uncovered evidence that the replacement filter was longer lived and had a faster flow for a good reason.  It did not filter to the .4 of a micron as promised; rather only provided a barrier of 3 microns which reduces the bacteria filtration ability considerably.  The reduced effectiveness of this particular filter canister and its inability to filter bacteria and viruses was confirmed by the maker General Ecology when in reply to an email they said..

P/N 420422 is our Nature Pure SC2QC canister. It has a particle retention rating of 3 micron. It is rated to remove cysts but not bacteria or virus. It will remove organic chemicals and aesthetic contaminants in a similar manner to the RS2QC canister but not as efficiently. The SC2QC canister will also mitigate the formation of scale deposits in downstream appliances. (The red highlighting is ours)

A lot of members checked their systems and found that they too had the 420422 filter canister.  They had bought a system to protect them from bacteria and viruses but were supplied a system incapable of doing this.

For some customers the claim above from purewateronline was not true because of the canister they were supplied.

Users need to check their filters, but don’t just look at the box. One member, pandj, found after a delivery from Purewateronline that he had the correct number on the box but the filter within was the inferior 420422 . Inspection of the box showed a sticker hid the fact that the inferior filter was within!

If you find that you have been supplied with a 420422 canister and you thought you were purchasing protection against bacteria and viruses then contact us here 

General Ecology supply first class filtration systems but to stop bacteria and viruses you need the correct filter canister in place.   Why Purewateronline, the UK distributor has supplied the wrong canisters and left customers in the UK unprotected against bacteria and viruses is not yet known and an investigation by the manufacture is under way.     SUFFICE TO SAY; CHECK YOUR FILTER  and see that you have what you paid for. If your canister has a part number of 420422 then it is not protecting you against bacteria and viruses.  

Jim Brown

Jim Brown

Jim is a long time motorhome enthusiast travelling extensively in the UK and Europe. Averaging 12000 motorhome miles a year. He has owned many motorhomes both British and Continental. His present motorhome is a 27ft C class RV.
Jim Brown
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80 Comments

  1. Rip Off Britain at its worst. Putting customers health at risk by switching ‘purifying’ water filters for cheaper ‘limescale’ models.
    Will General Ecology sort out their sole UK agent or turn a blind eye?

  2. So, I am slightly confused – is there any cartridge that DOES protect against bacteria and viruses?  Am going to check what part number I have in my nature pure system when I am next in the vehicle

  3. So, I am slightly confused – is there any cartridge that DOES protect against bacteria and viruses?  Am going to check what part number I have in my nature pure system when I am next in the vehicle

    The one and only one that Harald lists at purwateronline is the 420420 @£88 (yes that does protect). The one he has accidentally:whistle: been giving out is a 420422 (no it does not) which is inferior and probably cheaper but even General ecology would not divulge pricing to me,rather refer me to the UK agent.

  4. So, I am slightly confused – is there any cartridge that DOES protect against bacteria and viruses?  Am going to check what part number I have in my nature pure system when I am next in the vehicle

    Yes, if you have the correct canister then you are well protected to bacteria and viruses down to 0.4 of a micron.  That you have the correct canister should be a given, that we have all this confusion is a shame.  The company in the US has promised to get back to me as soon as they are sure what has happened over here with Pure Water Online Ltd.

  5. I bought my replacement last year at Peterborough and put it in a couple of months ago.  Will check it

    The easiest way to check is to unscrew the canister and look for the ref number which you will find in the bottom plug.

    Like this

  6. Clean the Tank. Drink the tap-water. So far NEVER had an Issue?. Just DON'T leave water in the Tanks when Parked up without using it or draining down?. As my old granny used to say. Water is for Washing, ALCOHOL is for drinking!!.

  7. WELSH WATER the water of the GODS no need to filter ray xx lol still lol but makes you a mad as a march hare :drinks:

    In Parts of the USA it is called "Mountain Dew". AKA "White Lightening"?:D2

  8. We use these, never had any bother and no taste as far I can tell.

    http://www.towsure.com/aqua-clean-tabs-water-purifying-tablets?gclid=CjwKEAiA48fDBRDJ24_imejhwUkSJAAr0M5k_QGnd7CLcrbihhhqTlCAzst02sR4hbNi4FRhCwzkexoCCSvw_wcB

    Plenty use those tabs but I'd rather not drink a liquid that has chemicals in it that kill bugs, I want to keep the bugs in my gut. ' For me, filtration is by far the best option.  .4 of a micron is a great compromise. In a motorhome that uses a pump then filter smaller and you'll likely struggle with flow. Any bigger and the bacteria will pass though.

  9. Plenty use those tabs but I'd rather not drink a liquid that has chemicals in it that kill bugs, I want to keep the bugs in my gut. 😀 For me, filtration is by far the best option.  .4 of a micron is a great compromise. In a motorhome that uses a pump then filter smaller and you'll likely struggle with flow. Any bigger and the bacteria will pass though.

    Must admit , hadn't thought about the gut bit.

  10. water yes there are micro bacteria in it do not drink it ,but if boiled for a cupper then all the bugs die ray xx lol still lol only use the wet stuff :drinks:

  11. Plenty use those tabs but I'd rather not drink a liquid that has chemicals in it that kill bugs, I want to keep the bugs in my gut. 😀 For me, filtration is by far the best option.  .4 of a micron is a great compromise. In a motorhome that uses a pump then filter smaller and you'll likely struggle with flow. Any bigger and the bacteria will pass though.

    The 3M E2 has a 0.2 micron filter.

    It will be interesting to see how it compares with the NP cartridge.

    The quotes flow rats is 4l per minute which is higher than the quoted figure for the NP, so it will be interesting to see what the 'real' flow rate is in a MH

  12. That's really bad isn't it?

    It is putting people's health at serious risk.

    Perhaps a report to the local environmental health department might encourage the manufacturer/ supplier to sort out their "issues"  a bit quicker?

  13. Just a point the old one has been removed from the system so the filter medium contains liquid, the new one I assume is dry so would this not be the reason for the weight difference?

  14. It would but,  as i read it,  Techno used two brand new filters for the comparison test

    1 x old type

    1 x new type

     Both new and unused

  15. They've all been weighed new & dry.

    Just a point the old one has been removed from the system so the filter medium contains liquid, the new one I assume is dry so would this not be the reason for the weight difference?

  16. And just as another comparison, our removed, emptied, and weighed 420422, with not a lot of use over the last 16 x months, weighs in at 644g.

    Cheers,

    Jock. 🙂

  17. If this is true, why have our local standards authority not prosecuted them for their potentially dangerous and misleading advertising, both in published form and quoted in their sales pitches at Motorhome Shows?

  18. If this is true, why have our local standards authority not prosecuted them for their potentially dangerous and misleading advertising, both in published form and quoted in their sales pitches at Motorhome Shows?

    Firstly I guess they would have to know about it.

  19. If this is true, why have our local standards authority not prosecuted them for their potentially dangerous and misleading advertising, both in published form and quoted in their sales pitches at Motorhome Shows?

    It hasn't reached that stage Alan……………………..yet. 😉

    Cheers,

    Jock. 🙂

  20. Whilst the “Pozzani is probably a very good filter in its price range
    It does not offer the same level of protection as the Item in question “When supplied with the correct cartridges
    As Indicated in some posts the Microbe and virus function is why so many have bought this filter,.only to be badly let down by being supplied with inferior products than are being paid for.
    I find it incredulous that companies rarely, if ever send out superior products by mistake.
    G

  21. Whilst the "Pozzani is probably a very good  filter in its price range

    It does not offer the same level of protection as the Item in question "When supplied with the correct cartridges

    As Indicated in some posts  the Microbe and virus function is why so many have bought this filter,.only to be badly let down by being supplied with inferior products than are being paid for.

    I find it incredulous that companies rarely, if ever send out superior products by mistake.

    G

    Geo

    The E2 filter  is 0.2 micron

    Why do you believe this is not as effective as the NP Biological one?

    http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/757200O/e1-e2-caravans-marine-1.pdf

  22. Because they make no such claims in what i have read

    The best twin filter system on their Drinking Water page states

    Option 1: Scum and Limescale Filter

            Option 2: Anti Fluoride Filter

            Option 3: Nitrate Reduction filter

    No mention of bacteria viruses or cysts removal

    Call me cynical but if there systems did, they would be shouting about it surley

  23. Because they make no such claims in what i have read

    The best twin filter system on their Drinking Water page states

    Option 1: Scum and Limescale Filter

            Option 2: Anti Fluoride Filter

            Option 3: Nitrate Reduction filter

    No mention of bacteria viruses or cysts removal

    Call me cynical but if there systems did, they would be shouting about it surley

    Check out the table at the bottom of the PDF

    http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/757200O/e1-e2-caravans-marine-1.pdf

  24. The difference in description between 3mE2 filter and the NP that caused me to ponder was that the NP talks about water purification, whereas 3M makes no such claims. The main stats for 2 are comparable.  

    We do not have NP, but have had 3M at home for 8 years and now have had it in the van using the higher spec E2 for the last 2 months.  At home the lower spec cartridges last about 7 to 8 months, used constantly.  I am expecting the van cartridges to last at least that long.

  25. The difference in description between 3mE2 filter and the NP that caused me to ponder was that the NP talks about water purification, whereas 3M makes no such claims. The main stats for 2 are comparable. 

    We do not have NP, but have had 3M at home for 8 years and now have had it in the van using the higher spec E2 for the last 2 months.  At home the lower spec cartridges last about 7 to 8 months, used constantly.  I am expecting the van cartridges to last at least that long.

    Interesting.  One of my worries is lack of flow rate for filters as small as 0.2 microns.  How was the flow rate through the filter in the motorhome and what pump does your motorhome have please?

  26. A quick look around shows more BS about these things than than a Farmers field

     I have quoted a Samsung product  called  "Pozzani"

    You send me a 3M Data sheet

    Hows that work?/

    I since found the Ceramic Samsung  is 1 micron anti bacteria / virus

    So I'll see your 2 Micron and raise you 1 micron

    Does anyone know what there talking about here

    Pozzani is the name of a UK company that sells all types of water filtration equipment for all sorts of applications from different manufacturers and includes equipment and filters marketed under their own names.  Their website is at http://www.pozzani.co.uk  The 3M product that Robert linked to is sold by Pozzani but made by a very reputable US company that has all sorts of divisions and these filters are aimed specifically at the marine, caravan and motorhome industry.  There is a lot of difference, in terms of bacterial filtration, between 1 micron, and 0.2 micron, which is what the 3m E2 cartridge provides.

  27. A quick look around shows more BS about these things than than a Farmers field

     I have quoted a Samsung product  called  "Pozzani"

    You send me a 3M Data sheet

    Hows that work?/

    I since found the Ceramic Samsung  is 1 micron anti bacteria / virus

    So I'll see your 2 Micron and raise you 1 micron

    Does anyone know what there talking about here

    Calm down Geo

    Pozzani is also the name of the company selling the 3m filter (E1 and E2)

  28. Interesting.  One of my worries is lack of flow rate for filters as small as 0.2 microns.  How was the flow rate through the filter in the motorhome and what pump does your motorhome have please?

    Initially a big concern, I even bought a little device to measure the water pressure, did not get an accurate measurement but was confident it was adequate. 

    The pump is a Flojet 3406 Series (I think).

    Since fitting with the E2 filter inplace the flow has I think reduced but marginally, to be honest it was not great before fitting, hence why I tried to test it.

    In the van fitted it to just the main tap in the kitchen sink, not a seperate tap, we keep the tank clean and do drink from the tap (resent paying for bottled water).

    Best thing it has given us much more confidence when debating water drinking with those who buy bottled water all the time :D2.  Initially I had though that depending on our planned trips we may even use the lower grade E1 filter and then switch to the E2 microbial when venturing further afield, but after the current threads I think we shall just stick with the E2.

  29. If this is true, why have our local standards authority not prosecuted them for their potentially dangerous and misleading advertising, both in published form and quoted in their sales pitches at Motorhome Shows?

    Firstly I guess they would have to know about it.

    Secondly Trading Standards are pretty much toothless. They don't have the power to go around prosecuting at will.

  30. For the record, a Stellaologist is known as 'a wife beater' and Bacardiologist is just known as a B&C lover. ;)(y)

    Stella is no longer called wife beater since they removed the alcohol :ROFLMAO:

  31. Received two 40420 canisters as promised today flow rate considerably slower than the 40422 originally supplied but still acceptable. Tastes very pure,  I do hope that when I have to renew in  a year or so that this will all be resolved by General Ecology.

  32. Yes I do.  In another life I was a qualified Ginologist

    I always recommend drinking Gin whilst away in the van

    I am studying hard at the moment to become a qualified StellaOlogist as well

    My wife is a BacardiOlogist!

    I am just a commoner Alcoholigist. 😉

    BTW, watch this space re the filter thingy. 😉

    Cheers,

    Jock. 🙂

  33. BTW, watch this space re the filter thingy. 😉

    ?????????

    I have just received two new 420420 cartridges … have weighed one which shows approx 510g .. still a lot lighter than the one weighed by @Techno !!

  34. I have a meeting tomorrow with a Representative from General Ecology. Thankfully they appear to be taking this situation very seriously. I'll report back with what they have to say about their UK representatives actions.

    I will make sure that they recognise the efforts of @Techno in discovering Harald Charters disgraceful conduct.

  35. Thank You Jim for taking time to help sort this …but out of curiosity did anyone receive an apology for all the stress and discomfort with their replacement filter or am I old fashioned expecting one?

    Kath x

  36. Thank You Jim for taking time to help sort this …but out of curiosity did anyone receive an apology for all the stress and discomfort with their replacement filter or am I old fashioned expecting one?

    Kath x

    No appology here.:mad:

  37. The parent company are still investigating. They have already met a Funster who was duped.   I think we'll be hearing from them soon.

  38. Can we also find out if the part no 420460 is different to 420420, as they have the same product reference.

    GE have promised a spec sheet detailing the qualities of the 420620, in the same way that they have listed the 420420. The cartridges on their Versa Pure web page, although very similar looking, are purely for the Aircraft Industry.

    https://generalecology.com/images/files/pdf/aircraft_products/200532DVPQCselguide0313.pdf

    Things are definitely going to change, and…………….. they do read these forum pages. 😉

    More will be revealed without a doubt, in the coming days.

    Cheers,

    Jock. 🙂

  39. Thank You Jim for taking time to help sort this …but out of curiosity did anyone receive an apology for all the stress and discomfort with their replacement filter or am I old fashioned expecting one?

    Kath x

    No apology.

    No reply to my email to Jon Green either, asking for a refund.

  40. We've sent QC back for a refund. We've now got a Seagull iv, we figured they've been about for a while so should be ok.

    Just got to juggle the fittings about a bit.

    Got it on evilbay for £251 for complete system from Italy (y)

  41. I bought my filter kit at the Lincoln motorhome show at the end of 2015 .The guy demonstrating was filtering water from a glass tank which had Elson blue in it and the water came out clean and with no  taste .

    I said i wanted it to use in places like Morocco where water is delivered from unknown sources he said the water was fully filtered no bacteria etc . The filters are the same as the armed forces use.

     So i bought one. 

    I have checked and it is the inferior filter. …..

    I have emailed them via Jim and Techno's link asking if the morocan  filtered water would be safe to drink and that i felt i had been miss sold the filter unit but no reply as yet.

  42. Thanks to Techno and this site for highlighting this problem.

    I fitted this system last summer and on Wednesday, in Totana, I checked my cartridge number. It was the 420422 which doesn't filter down to 0.4 microns.

    After contacting PurWaterOnline, Sam apologised for "the confusion" and  indicated that a replacement would be put in the post.

    I hope this will resolve the problem.  Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and especially to Techno. You can't get much past him!

    Norman

  43. First up I do not have a filter system in my Elddis, but that does not mean to say I do not have an opinion.

    To me as I have been reading this there are a few issues here:-

    1/ miss selling by description

    2/ health issues caused by miss leading information by description

    3/ Possible fraud has been committed, by purchasing product/s not as advertised or as stated in said advertisement/s

    4/ EU fraud as saying in the EU the water is safe to use, hence the change of part sent. This can have other consequences that may have Eu legislation by law breathing down someones throat.

    I think there may be a legal case here, if what I have read is true, and I do not have any reason to think otherwise.

    I think this guy has committed a fraud, and if I had been affected by this I would have consulted a solicitor accordingly.

    Flook:censored:

  44. How is the flow and life of that canister been Dane? Are you happy with it?

    It's the same canister that came with the system in 2015 and the flow is about the same as when it went in. Well happy with it just a bit upset others may have bought the system on my recommendation here on fun and that they may have been tucked up, having said that I only expressed an opinion on my setup and dealings with Harald which was good.

    I am sure there will be a satisfactory resolution for those affected and then filtergate can be put to bed.

  45. I have been in contact with General Ecology.  They will be issuing a press release later this week but after the call today I can paraphrase what I was told.  

    Essentially they are very sorry their UK distributor was supplying their kits with the wrong canister. To make amends they would like to offer every person affected a full refund for what they purchased the filter system for. In the hope that those people will keep their filters, they will also be offering all the victims four filter canisters of their choice for those kits.   They will also be donating an as yet undisclosed sum to a charity of @Techno 's choice. 

    I'm told you should not worry if you cannot locate your receipt, as they will happily accept the serial numbers from the filter and canister as proof of purchase. 

    After meeting with their representative I'm satisfied that General Ecology were not aware of what their UK Distributor was doing.  I'm more than happy with the way they have dealt with it since it became public. Immediately flying here from the states to meet and speak to some of the victims.  To that end I am certainly satisfied with this offer and will be accepting it.   I'm sure plenty of Funsters will be happy with it too, but that is their decision to make.

  46. @Jim I am not affected by this.  But that sounds like a very generous offer and sounds like they are trying to get out ahead of this.  Nice work @Techno and @Jim

    Their UK guy has dropped them right in it.  But they are doing their best to make it right, they have not quibbled or tried to shift blame or muddy the waters.  They accept the situation as is and want to make it right.

  47. Jim, sounds good info to me. However, do you know if they will be dumping their UK agent, if so who have they have in mind to replace them. Possibly a funster who is already in the trade perhaps:D.

  48. Jim

    As said I am not affected but going forward where will we be getting our new filters from now?

    No idea right now Dane, I'm sure they'll let us know.  I need a filter swopped out right now, but I'm certainly not taking it to Purewateronline.

  49. It's good they are responding quickly but they are also probably extremely relieved it didn't happen in the USA.  It would have cost them millions.

  50. It's good they are responding quickly but they are also probably extremely relieved it didn't happen in the USA.  It would have cost them millions.

    Exactly.

  51. It's good they are responding quickly but they are also probably extremely relieved it didn't happen in the USA.  It would have cost them millions.

    Certainly one of the things I'll be suggesting going forward is they have a proper label affixed to each canister that tells you precisely what the filter does.  Presently there are just a couple of numbers and this has proved to be confusing.  I'd suggest something like;

    Filters Bacteria, Virus & Cysts to 0.4 of a micron. With details of certification.


    or


    Improves taste, reduces limescale.  Filters Cysts to 3 microns, does not filter bacteria

    That type of thing.

  52. Certainly one of the things I'll be suggesting going forward is they have a proper label affixed to each canister that tells you precisely what the filter does.  Presently there are just a couple of numbers and this has proved to be confusing.  I'd suggest something like;

    Filters Bacteria, Virus & Cysts to 0.4 of a micron. With details of certification.


    or


    Improves taste, reduces limescale.  Filters Cysts to 3 microns, does not filter bacteria

    That type of thing.

    It does strike me as odd they don't put the filter specification on the packaging.  It would probably have to be in several languages and would cost them a little extra but it would seem sensible.  Might be something you could suggest to them if you haven't already done it.

    Not quite the same thing but John Deere use symbols:

    https://t.jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/4977_fb_Filter_ISO_Symbol.htm

  53. It's good they are responding quickly but they are also probably extremely relieved it didn't happen in the USA.  It would have cost them millions.

    Exactly, a point which was raised with Jon Green last Thursday, and possibly reiterated by Jim on Friday.

    It's not surprising that they are keen to resolve this one so quickly. 🙄

    On the subject of the labels, I questioned Jon Green, as to why labels were placed over the numbers on the original filter boxes supplied, thereby making things look very suspicious. He said that he wasn't aware that labels were being affixed to to the filter boxes, and therefore could not answer my question, but did promise to look into it.

    Still not heard anything yet. 🙁

    Cheers,

    Jock. 🙂

  54. Is there any update on the press release and filter swap?

    We bought a QC2 system at Lincoln 2014. It still has the original filter which I have checked and is the “wrong” 420422. I ordered a replacement filter and a 420422 arrived so I rang their office and spoke to Sam and a replacement 420420 was sent out arriving the next day. The strange thing is that both the new 420420 and 420422 both weigh 550gm so I am still suspicious that I don’t have the right filter.

    Confidence in the system is now low.

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