X244 (and others) Oil Seals (1 Viewer)

Jean-luc

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My 2005 X244 got its second replacement timing belt last year, end of second 5 year period.
Earlier this month while getting the underneath treated and Waxoiled a 'bit of dampness' (oil) was noticed below the crankshaft pulleys so I took it to my local FIAT Professional service centre for an opinion.

Diagnosis on inspection, after removing the belly pan:
Very slight oil leak from either camshaft seal and/or crankshaft seal, which was being collected by the belly pan, hence no telltale oily spot on my driveway.

Remedy:replacement of seals.
This requires the same dismantling and labour costs as replacing the timing belt. As the belt may be contaminated it was recommended that it might as well be replaced and a new five year period started from now, a year and a half after it was last done :(

Perhaps those seals should be routinely replaced when doing the second belt change as a preventative measure. In hindsight I would have spent the extra few Euro to have them replaced last year while the engine was stripped for the cam belt change, they are after all wearing parts which are also affected by time as they harden with age.
 
Aug 6, 2013
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Probably another effect of (as MMM would have it) 'sleepy van syndrome'. If not used for even a shortish period minor corrosion occurs on exposed parts of the engine. Which if they happen to be rotating parts can wear seals more than would otherwise be the case.
 

dave newell

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Assuming (a sometimes dangerous thing to do) it is the 2.8 engine I'd suggest the most likely bit to leak is the cambox gasket, I've seen lots with a slight weep from that joint. Its a much easier job to change than a crank seal which in my experience very rarely leaks.

D.

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Geo

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I would agree 100% with Dave's observations changing cam and crank seals is a risky job in itself, 95% of jobs they go well.
If it aint broke dont fix it fits really well in the world of oil seals as a leak may be caused were there previously wasn't one,
From a commercial view seals are best fitted on assembly with all new clean parts.when being built up,
or if they had to be disurbed during repair never in my opinion just as a preventative move
If you are DIYing knock yourself out, change whater you like learn the hard way we had to:xwink:

But when fitted to cure an actual leak itself, then the risk has to be lived with, its a no Brainer as they say.

The only other comment I would make is Fiat should know better than to "Recommend" a new cam belt as they should never be re fitted once removed.
here it would be compulsory if we were doing that particular Job, or if you insisted we re use your old belt (and it has happened)
we would invalidate any warranty remaining if we had fitted the last one, and noted on your invoice your instructions.

The reason? if you want to know
New belts are made with give in them and when fitted to the correct fitting tension they then stretch a little in use, and then relax if you like
A used belt will be fitted again with the correct fitting tension for a new belt cost there aint one for a used belt. and no way of knowing what allownce to make.

Result
It's already used all its stretch last time round, so no relaxing can take place, result is your tensioners and pullys are now running over tensioned for the remainder of the 5 year period
the likely result will be premature failure of belt and or pulleys.
Point is my a**e is covered :xcool: i did it by the book
G
 
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Jean-luc

Jean-luc

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Just a few clarifications.
'Sleepy Van Syndrome', over 120,000 kms in 11 years and never left for more than a few weeks parked up.
The dealers 'recommendation' to change the belt was not given as a matter of unqualified choice but more of a 'not a good idea to not do it'

Dave's observation that the cambox gasket could well be the culprit is noted, thanks Dave. I will ask the dealer to investigate this before stripping to get at the oil seals. The engine is a 2.8 JTD Power version

Thanks also Geo for your input.
 

The Nomad

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Seen a lot of these. In my experience the weeping/ leakage is often the result of using much less viscous oils than originally specified. These old chugger engines and seals were never designed to cope with later lower viscosity oils. Make sure you and anyone who changes your engine oil always sticks to the old mineral 20w50, or semi synthetic 15w40 or 10w40 oils. Lots of comments to this effect over the years from mechaics on the Fiat forum and on Preloved too.

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dave newell

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Seen a lot of these. In my experience the weeping/ leakage is often the result of using much less viscous oils than originally specified. These old chugger engines and seals were never designed to cope with later lower viscosity oils. Make sure you and anyone who changes your engine oil always sticks to the old mineral 20w50, or semi synthetic 15w40 or 10w40 oils. Lots of comments to this effect over the years from mechaics on the Fiat forum and on Preloved too.


10w40 semi synthetic is the correct oil for this engine, 5w30(or40) will almost certainly lead to leaks. I stand by my earlier comment, my money is on the cambox gasket. No more than an hours job (unless its one of those godawful A class motorhomes with terrible engine bay access) so should be a fairly cheap fix.

D.
 
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Jean-luc

Jean-luc

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Seen a lot of these. In my experience the weeping/ leakage is often the result of using much less viscous oils than originally specified. These old chugger engines and seals were never designed to cope with later lower viscosity oils. Make sure you and anyone who changes your engine oil always sticks to the old mineral 20w50, or semi synthetic 15w40 or 10w40 oils. Lots of comments to this effect over the years from mechaics on the Fiat forum and on Preloved too.

Vehicle has been serviced at local FIAT Professional service centre since new, so I would expect the recommended oil has been used.
As regards being 'an old chugger' this end of series 2.8 JTD with its variable geometry turbo, larger intercooler and upgraded software qualifies for a green Umwelt-Plakette and will give its 3.0 successor a run for its money.
 

The Nomad

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Vehicle has been serviced at local FIAT Professional service centre since new, so I would expect the recommended oil has been used.
As regards being 'an old chugger' this end of series 2.8 JTD with its variable geometry turbo, larger intercooler and upgraded software qualifies for a green Umwelt-Plakette and will give its 3.0 successor a run for its money.

Therein often lies the problem I'm afraid.....bitter experience has shown I would not trust Main Dealer servicing as far as I could chuck it.

I've lost count of the number of times I've had to put right wrongly adjusted, wrongly filled, untouched, unserviced, overtightened, undertightened, damaged or bodged items after a "Full Service" has been done by some main dealer chimp.

The YTS trainee apprentice who actually does most basic service stuff may well in practice have chucked in any oil they've got knocking around.

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andy63

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I know it's not the best time to be messing on engines without the right facilities but surely it shouldn't be too hard to establish whether it's a high level leak or from lower down.. clean and dry the area and keep checking to see where it appears from...I seem to remember dusting the area with powder to try and locate leaks from seals before.. there isn't usually any urgency...
Andy..

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Aug 18, 2014
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20/50 what that? Coal ??:xrofl:

Steady on , there's still some of us with proper engines you can throw chip fat/rapeseed/sunflower/anything in & it will perform flawlessly having to use the old coal tar 20/50 stuff.:xlaugh::xThumb:
 

The Nomad

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One would expect the service centre mentioned in my earlier post who also holds a Toyota franchise would not have 'any old oil knocking around' which could be used in place of a recommended oil.

I have come across this post http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk...orhome-Matters/Ducato-2-8JTD-oil-leaks/23026/ which adds another dimention to the issue


Indeed you should be able expect them not to; but in my experience, sadly that doesn't actually mean that the YTS trainee didn't do it.
They'll have big 100 litre drums of the modern thin, fully synthetic oils with handpump dispensers in the service area, and that's perhaps what the spotty teenage lad will be used to using in mostly everything he's told to put engine oil into......
 

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