Winter or mud n snow tyre (1 Viewer)

[knokinonabit]

I have just found the video - have a look:

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[DBK]

After just watching the video that JeanLuc posted I would have to disagree with that.
The Merc at the end of the video with winter tyres only on the rear was all over the place.

If you listen to the commentary it says the car initially under steered then "viciously" swapped to oversteer. The inference is the initial under steer from the non-winter tyres unbalanced the car.

But the advice to fit the best tyres on the rear is well established - but unfortunately not so well known!

 

[knokinonabit]

If you listen to the commentary it says the car initially under steered then "viciously" swapped to oversteer. The inference is the initial under steer from the non-winter tyres unbalanced the car.

But the advice to fit the best tyres on the rear is well established - but unfortunately not so well known!

It still doesn't alter the fact that the car was hard to control with the best grip tyres on the rear.
When I was a lad, back in the day working in a garage, the advice used to be to fit the best tyres on the front to make steering and braking that much safer.
That was before Sir Alec Issigonis gave us the front wheel drive mini.

So I suppose the best advice is to do as the video says.
Equal and same tyres all round.


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[DBK]

Do a bit of Googling and you will find many references to fitting the best tyres on the back, irrespective of whether it is front or rear wheel drive. Here is just one.
http://www.tyresafe.org/media-centre/latest-news/69-motorists-get-their-tyres-“back-to-front”

 

[knokinonabit]

Do a bit of Googling and you will find many references to fitting the best tyres on the back, irrespective of whether it is front or rear wheel drive. Here is just one.
http://www.tyresafe.org/media-centre/latest-news/69-motorists-get-their-tyres-“back-to-front”

That's it then.
The front tyres are going to stay where they are until they aren't legal and then it will be new tyres all round.
Oh, the expense

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[SteveandSue]

Snow flake is not mandatory whereas M+S is (in countries that require 'winter tyres).

Are you certain about snowflake symbol? It was my understanding that the snowflake symbol was introduced several years to denote that they were winter tyres - as required in Austria -As opposed to just M + S that were a more general use - - - - except of course maybe M + S if they had a snowflake symbol? It is the snowflake symbol that is of relevance not the M + S
I could be wrong though

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[SteveandSue]

Well - There are 2 posts running on similar subject - and as always there are lots of differing views and interpretations - Both posts are mentioning the M + S Tyres, and the snowflake symbol. So I will stick by my understanding - that in Austria winter tyres must have snowflake symbol - M & S fine but need the symbol - So - if transiting through or going to Austria then you need the snowflake symbol (i think???) Link below is mentioning this change (I hope!)
http://drive2ski.com/index.php?mod=show_winter_tyres&id_tpsp=7
I know our first season skiing we went to Austria and at over 3.5 tons we were informed that we had to have the snowflake symbol on the tyres for them to be classed as winter tyres.

 

[JeanLuc]

Here is Continental's explanation of the symbols. Basically, the M+S mark is a statement that the tyre is designed for use in mud and snow but the Alps symbol requires the tyre to pass specific tests which are recognised by the EU and conform with USA requirements.
http://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/car/technology/tyre-knowledge/marking-laws/markings-article

 

[Dafydd]

I can second JeanLuc's recommendation of reading the Continental website info about winter tyres. They are not just for snow!! They are designed for more secure driving in *cold* conditions (7c and under) as well as being more effective on snowy/icy surfaces (or mud).
In countries with regulations stipulating use of winter tyres most people have two sets of tyres (or tyres on rims) and pay to store them in a "tyre hotel" between change-overs.

The advice from Continental is that if you're only going to have one set of tyres then use winter ones year round. There may be increased wear in hot conditions but that's the only downside and not a particularly bad one. Even in warmer months an early morning start will frequently be in temperatures only a bit above zero and the softer compound of winter tyres will provide noticeably better driving security.
As I understand it all-year use of winter tyres is a better compromise than using "four-season" tyres.

From my research the two best winter tyres for MHs are Continental VancoWinter2 and Michelin Agilis Alpin. As I will be long-term touring around Europe I will be having just the one set of winter tyres, either the Continental or Michelin.

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[Cavs]

After considerable thought, I chose Continental Vanco AllSeason, which carry both M+S and the snowflake symbol and are specifically designed for year round use. The only downside there seems to be is a slightly worse rolling resistance figure on the grading label. In terms of motorhome use, I judged this difference to be insignificant.

We don't do skiing, but we do use the van a lot in the winter, so we went for M+S for grip (including on grass) and the snowflake for confidence when abroad in winter.

 

[Jac Sprat]

I think this has persuaded me to use winter tyres and summer tyres
We will be full timing so not light usage.

 

[Dafydd]

@Jac Sprat
Using two sets: you will need to pay for a set of tyres to be stored (permanently) and two charges for fitting (usually April & November). When you do your costing you need to ask yourself if the outlay for the second set + tyre hotel cost + 2xfitting is a greater or lesser cost than wearing out winter tyres 5000km earlier than summer ones. And you have the inconvenience of having to make your way to your tyre hotel twice a year from wherever you are (if you are touring about Europe). Or you have to carry a set of tyres permanently in the MH and have them changed over wherever you are twice a year...

The advantage of two sets is significant for a car that is driven much harder than a MH with much higher tops speeds. But it's less of a disadvantage using winter tyres during hot weather for a MH because the speed, acceleration/braking and cornering are all much gentler.

On the other hand I have seen a few adverts for MHs in Germany that showed pics of the second set of tyres/tyres on rims in the MH garage so obviously there are MHers who use the two set system.
I did some fag-packet sums when I was thinking about this and figured the extra wear wasn't going to be significant enough to merit the inconvenience (and ongoing costs) of having two sets. I never considered carrying a set of tyres in the MH (6 tyres for me).
If I was going to be based mostly only in one country I might reconsider it I suppose (including in the UK where very few people - car drivers - use two sets even though lots of the country gets long periods of significant cold and it is for low temperatures that winter tyres are most advantageous, not just snow on the road...). If the two set system suits your travel plans and budget then it is the ideal from a driving security point of view.

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[JeanLuc]

If you want the benefit of winter tyres would not bother with summer tyres as well. As Dafydd says, the extra cost far outweighs the possibility of faster wearing winter tyres. When I spoke to Continental, they agreed that at typical motorhome speeds and mileage, higher wear in the summer was not an issue. In fact, most motorhome tyres need to be replaced due to age, not lack of tread. When I replaced Vanco2 standards with Vanco Winter2 this time last year, there was still plenty of tread left after 6 years. I had swapped them front to back about two years before as the rear tyres wear a bit quicker.

 

[Jac Sprat]

We would like winter tyres for maximum safety when driving icy maybe steeper roads when we go skiing. I am a novice at driving a motor home. Our concern is more with safety than economy on this one.

 

[Speve]

We have micheline Agilis campers they have M & S on them.

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[Dafydd]

There is a difference between M+S and winter tyres marked with the "alpine symbol" (a mountain with a snowflake).
M+S tyres (*usually "all season" tyres but sometimes only summer) satisfy the legal requirements in some countries during winter (usually with minimum tread depth of 4mm) but the performance is not measured or specified (it's a question of the tread design).
Alpine symbol tyres have to conform to (or exceed) specified performance tests relating to road surface conditions and, importantly, to (low) temperatures.
It's explained on the link that JeanLuc gave on the previous page: http://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/car/technology/tyre-knowledge/marking-laws/markings-article

See also the AA page on winter tyre 9and carrying chains) requirements: http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/snow-chains-winter-tyres.html

*note from AA: Check with the tyre supplier if you are in any doubt as some 'M+S' tyres sold in the UK are summer tyres. These would not meet the requirements even though the sidewall marking, ‘M+S’, might suggest that they do.

 

[Dafydd]

Michelin Agilis Camping, with M+S mark, are "summer" tyres according to the Michelin website (see the "sun" season symbol on the top right).

Whilst it is possible (but I don't know) that these would satisfy most of the country requirements for November-April, their efficiency in cold temperatures, regardless of surface conditions, will be significantly less than "snowflake" marked actual winter tyres. The difference between these and regular summer tyres is in the tread.
Broken Link Removed

Michelin Agilis Alpin are available in spec for motorhomes of various weights and are actual winter tyres as denoted by the "alpine snowflake" symbol on the Michelin page: http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-agilis-alpin

 

[Speve]

Thanks @Dafydd they quote alpine as Sep-April and camping April-Sept, So I no What to buy on next set then!

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[funflair]

I fitted new Michelin camping M+S tyres on the front of ours, when the rears were due for a change I decided to go for a full set of Continental Vanco fourseasons 2 with the mountain and snowflake which denotes them as a winter tyre but they are suitable for all year use Yes a full winter only tyre would be better but the fourseasons is better than M+S.

You can tell the difference between these two tyres just looking at the tread blocks, the fourseasons tyre has little cuts or "sipes" running across the block, this is what gives it the grip in snow and slush.

My experience of driving on both is that the fourseasons tyre on the front is not quite so direct and responsive on the steering as the camping M+S, it is quite normal that a full winter tyre will feel a little vague in the dry as the compound is softer and the blocks are not as stable and they move around more. For this reason I will run the camping M+S on the front during the summer and change over in the winter.

Martin

I will add that we have 4 wheels on the rear axle so,do not feel the back end moving at all with the fourseasons on.

 

[Jac Sprat]

Resurrecting this thread to ask if anyone can recommend anywhere in norfolk to order and have winter tyres fitted?
We take possession of our Hymer 654 in a few weeks and heading straight off to Scotland to ski followed shortly after by the Dolomites..
We have been advised it can be hard to find them as factories make only a limited number.

 

[Cavs]

I can't recommend anyone, but I think KwikFit, Oponeo and Black Circles can all arrange mobile fitting, and I believe the last two are showing stock.

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[bubble63]

toyo H09 mud and snow, I use them all year, excellent
they were recommend on here to go to the alps

 

[jockaneezer]

toyo H09 mud and snow, I use them all year, excellent
they were recommend on here to go to the alps

Another recommendation here for Toyo H09's all year round, cost me about £90 a corner at a local independant 225/65/16 load index 112

 

[GWAYGWAY]

What happened to the old Mud and snow tyres like I had on my old Anglia they looked like they has come off an Army landrover. The thread was about 9/16" at least. The ones I use on my car now are brilliant in winter but I haven't fitted them this year YET, it is still too warm here for the moment. PS the Anglia drove like a pig whatever the tyres except I did not get so stuck with the knobblies on.

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