will there be a change of attitude (1 Viewer)

[GJH]

Some just out of town filling stations that have been closing in recent years are ideal spots for aires.......they have all the facilities needed and could turn rundown areas into productive sites again....just one idea.....where theres a will theres a way.

If the proposition were that attractive then at least one company would have snapped up and converted at least some of the sites

Toby Carvery offer Motorhome parking at all of the sites

They may offer parking but they can't offer camping (unless restricted to a single van and no more than 28 nights in a 12 month period) without a licence for each site. I doubt that M&B have taken such steps.

 

[GJH]

Well nobody will listen to him unless he gets enough signatures. All those naysayers out there - nothing happens unless people get off their arses and make it happen. It only takes a few seconds to click on and sign it. I did it as soon as I read this thread. What have you got to lose? Other than the ability to moan for the next 20 years about it "never happening".

Rant over ........ and breath.

The problem is that if people simply sign such petitions they may be duped into thinking they have done something which has a chance of success and be deterred from taking any action which really does have such a chance.

 

[colinw]

It may be a lot easier to develop the britstop idea further , I can heartily recommend the two I stayed at last weekend .

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[peterc10]

The problem is that if people simply sign such petitions they may be duped into thinking they have done something which has a chance of success and be deterred from taking any action which really does have such a chance.

So why not do both?????? At the moment nothing else has worked!

 

[colinw]

I would happily sign the petition if I thought that this one would make any difference. Time and time again people get all excited about getting onto their local authority and it always goes to nothing.

People where I live ( including myself ) have been moaning about the litter and general untidiness of an alleyway off the estate into the village. Nothing happened . I emailed the council and the alley was cleaned the next day !
Its like the lottery you can't moan about not winning if you don't buy a ticket .

 

[Granjan]

I have signed

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[irnbru]

Toby Carvery offer Motorhome parking at all of their sitesQUOTE]

Good to know Thx

 

[irnbru]

I just signed it anyway. Only takes a minute. Might not do any good but doesnt do no harm either.

 

[32143]

We stayed at Canterbury park and ride, great for us crossing on tunnel and I'm sure others do a night stop and visit Canterbury, would like to see this idea rolled out to other park and rides, certainly where we live in Scarborough would recoup some of the money spent on the park and ride as hardly any cars use the place.
Plus the services are already there, all the ones we have used with cars, have toilets and an office of some sort for the bus drivers, wouldn't be a huge job to allocate an area for MH and connect a service point.

Lin

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[GJH]

We stayed at Canterbury park and ride, great for us crossing on tunnel and I'm sure others do a night stop and visit Canterbury, would like to see this idea rolled out to other park and rides, certainly where we live in Scarborough would recoup some of the money spent on the park and ride as hardly any cars use the place.
Plus the services are already there, all the ones we have used with cars, have toilets and an office of some sort for the bus drivers, wouldn't be a huge job to allocate an area for MH and connect a service point.

Lin

The thing to do then is to put together some figures of the extra business that would be brought to Scarborough, using Canterbury as an example, and lobby North Yorkshire County Council to extend facilities at the P&R.
See Here for a template I have used in the past.

 

[GJH]

So why not do both?????? At the moment nothing else has worked!

Because it is a waste of time doing something which hasn't a chance of success.
It is wrong to say nothing else has worked. St Annes shows that.

 

[Scout]

two sigs from our household..

the other day we had the local candidate for the "whateverparty" knocking on our dooor for support, he was trying to glean favouritisium by saying "oh you have a motorhome" I then pigen holed him telling him all about aires, and asked why we could not have one on our (mostly unused) park n rides or even on unused land around the dome complex

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[scotjimland]

the local candidate for the "whateverparty" knocking on our dooor for support, he was trying to glean favouritisium by saying "oh you have a motorhome"

ah.. the old salesman's tactic .. was taught this technique many years ago when I was selling Farouche Kitchens in Scotland to keep the wolf at bay..

It goes like this....
as you walk up the drive, look for something in common to talk about . ... his/her car, the rose bed, the caravan, anything.. everyone says something about themselves by what they have on display .. ... if you don't see anything you know about, make it up, .. find common ground then praise them for having good taste .. get them on your side.. .. something like... "Ah good good evening sir.. beautiful caravan on your drive.. had it long .. ? "

I bet he said he had one .. or knew a friend who did

 

[magicsurfbus]

At toll barriers in France you have the Telepeage system, whereby a gizmo on your vehicle is detected, the barrier goes up, and your bank account is debited.

The same technology could be applied to an automated height barrier/rising bollard on existing car parks to permit pre-paid overnight parking by taller vehicles like MHs. If necessary it could be on a timer. Any inventors out there?

 

[Jaws]

Errr..
I have just signed it but have to say that I knew before hand it would be a complete waste of effort and time.

The petition closes in THREE DAYS time and has a massive 14 signatures so far !

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[buttons]

We have just worked our way up from Spain as far as Limoges and we have not seen an abused one either

I agree it will never happen in England as there is too much pressure and value put on land

I would hope that any tourist facility would look at its best in March.

 

[irnbru]

I'm now a bit confused as to why the person started 2 petitions?

 

[Scout]

. "Ah good good evening sir.. beautiful caravan on your drive.. had it long .. ? "

I bet he said he had one .. or knew a friend who did

how did you guess that

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[GJH]

I'm now a bit confused as to why the person started 2 petitions?

Presumably he has realised that starting a petition on Change.org was a complete waste of time so has tried to retrieve the situation by putting a link to it on the official government petition page.

 

[Bertie Bassett]

it will never happen until the local councils have genuine teeth on their use------they will be taken over by 'travellers' and everyone knows it----------sorry for the reality check--------but we would love to see them in the UK----bring us inline with the rest of Europe.

If that were the case Powys Council would be unable to run the scheme it has run succesfuly for a number of years allowing MHomes to overnight one night in eight..............mostly for free and often with access to fresh water.

 

[mentaliss]

It wont happen, and to be honest looking at the state of some of the abuse in the French ones, I wonder how long the French ones will continue in their current format

Sadly

Eddie

True, but some french local authorities are charging 7.00 euro's .. but for that you get water, some of the revamped Aires also supply hook up and in the last two years and 16 French Aires later we have never come across a 'shabby' one

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[Daniel]

My opinion on one night stop over would be that Supermarket put in use they car park in use during the night.
coin operate electric meter? over night fee system with deposit if no dumping rubbish? free water point?
only small number would be good i don't say turn the full car park to a camp site but 5 to 10 would be great this would be lots safe that wild camping and we all need to do our shopping at one point, so maybe a £10 charge with a £5 coupon if you shop would be for them a way to measure the benefit.....But that would be to job for the MMM or motorhomefun or similar organization to take on.

 

[msyd]

It's frustrating that so many councils don't get it. When returning from a European trip last year (we live in NZ) we were encouraged to try the MH parking in Canterbury, rather than make our way up to our old home town of Banbury (very MH-unfriendly). Brilliant stop, good facilities, free park-n-ride with free wifi. Guess what, we spent £200+ on clothes, plus coffee, lunch etc, so Canterbury is better-off and Banbury loses. We've seen huge changes in NZ over the last 3-4 years since central government leaned on the local authorities, and now there are many towns, large and small, who are officially MH-friendly. It's a no-brainer. The problem we don't have is travellers... our local authorities have the b*lls to deal with them!

 

[mjltigger]

It's frustrating that so many councils don't get it. When returning from a European trip last year (we live in NZ) we were encouraged to try the MH parking in Canterbury, rather than make our way up to our old home town of Banbury (very MH-unfriendly). Brilliant stop, good facilities, free park-n-ride with free wifi. Guess what, we spent £200+ on clothes, plus coffee, lunch etc, so Canterbury is better-off and Banbury loses. We've seen huge changes in NZ over the last 3-4 years since central government leaned on the local authorities, and now there are many towns, large and small, who are officially MH-friendly. It's a no-brainer. The problem we don't have is travellers... our local authorities have the b*lls to deal with them!

The problem is I bet you spent most of that £200 in next or some other chain stores who don't actually care which of their stores you shop in and so won't put pressure on a LA to do anything.

There are actually plenty of facilities in the UK. Lots are free, lots are very cheap. They are harder to find than on the continent I admit, but they are there.

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[Puddleduck]

So can anyone define "camping"? Is it staying overnight, cooking, having awning / table / chairs out? A combination of two or more of these?

There is a sign on a carpark I have seen locally that states "no camping" and just wondered how anyone would define that? I don't think it is enforceable

 

[DBK]

So can anyone define "camping"?... There is a sign on a carpark I have seen locally that states "no camping" and just wondered how anyone would define that? I don't think it is enforceable

Good point. My starter for 10 for the UK would be camping is sleeping in a vehicle equipped for living in. As opposed to having a kip in the front seat or leaving a car parked empty. Of course there are grey areas between these but that's why we have courts.

In France, for example, it seems different. Camping is having chairs and awnings out. Anything less is just parking - even with people inside asleep.

A legal beagle might draw attention to precedents that have left us with this situation.

 

[mjltigger]

I think sleeping in a parked vehicle, no matter how well kitted out, is overnight parking. Camping involves unpacking stuff

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[scotjimland]

@Puddleduck Graham has a lot of info on his web site .http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/roads.htm.. there is no specific law which prohibits sleeping in vehicles.

However, as far as the law is concerned, motrohomes are caravans and come under the The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 which regulates the stationing, for the purpose of human habitation, of vehicles constructed or adapted for human habitation.

Any laws that apply to caravans apply equally to motor caravans

LEGAL DEFINITION OF A CARAVAN
Section 29 (1) of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 a caravan is defined as

"... any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted but does not include:

a) Any railway rolling stock which is for the time being on rails forming part of a railway system, or

b) Any tent."

 

[GJH]

My opinion on one night stop over would be that Supermarket put in use they car park in use during the night.
coin operate electric meter? over night fee system with deposit if no dumping rubbish? free water point?
only small number would be good i don't say turn the full car park to a camp site but 5 to 10 would be great this would be lots safe that wild camping and we all need to do our shopping at one point, so maybe a £10 charge with a £5 coupon if you shop would be for them a way to measure the benefit.....But that would be to job for the MMM or motorhomefun or similar organization to take on.

For a supermarket to set up such a facility they would need to obtain a caravan site licence for each car park to comply with the 1960 Act as Jim mentioned. Individual store managers might allow an ad hoc arrangement, just as some pub landlords do, but the companies themselves will not put in place official schemes any more than breweries will for the whole of their pub estate.

So can anyone define "camping"? Is it staying overnight, cooking, having awning / table / chairs out? A combination of two or more of these?

There is a sign on a carpark I have seen locally that states "no camping" and just wondered how anyone would define that? I don't think it is enforceable

I think sleeping in a parked vehicle, no matter how well kitted out, is overnight parking. Camping involves unpacking stuff

Again as Jim mentions "camping" is simply any type of human habitation. It isn't necessary to unpack stuff to sleep for example. In some cases "camping" or particular actions such as cooking or sleeping may be defined in the parking order. Other cases simply rely on the 1960 Act. In a car park it is certainly enforceable but on the road (e.g. a lay-by) a legal order has to be in place (hence the current consultation by NYCC in the Scarborough area).

It's frustrating that so many councils don't get it. When returning from a European trip last year (we live in NZ) we were encouraged to try the MH parking in Canterbury, rather than make our way up to our old home town of Banbury (very MH-unfriendly). Brilliant stop, good facilities, free park-n-ride with free wifi. Guess what, we spent £200+ on clothes, plus coffee, lunch etc, so Canterbury is better-off and Banbury loses. We've seen huge changes in NZ over the last 3-4 years since central government leaned on the local authorities, and now there are many towns, large and small, who are officially MH-friendly. It's a no-brainer. The problem we don't have is travellers... our local authorities have the b*lls to deal with them!

The reason many councils "don't get it" is because nobody has given them a reason to "get it" by providing them with evidence of benefits which might accrue. After staying at Canterbury last year I drafted a template letter - http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/nstoplet.htm - which I have used as a base to send to about half a dozen authorities where I think there might be a chance. I'm hopeful one will come on board later this year or maybe next and two more may do so in future depending on costs. I'm happy for anyone to use that template to make their own approaches.

The problem is I bet you spent most of that £200 in next or some other chain stores who don't actually care which of their stores you shop in and so won't put pressure on a LA to do anything.

There are actually plenty of facilities in the UK. Lots are free, lots are very cheap. They are harder to find than on the continent I admit, but they are there.

Whilst it tends to be of more benefit where local independent businesses are supported, spending chains can also influence councils because those businesses employ local people and the increased trade helps the vitality of the town centre.

 

[olley]

Farouche Kitchens that's a name out of the past Jim, very high pressure sales technique, I employed two ex sales people back in about 1990.

Ian

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