Will the EHIC still be valid if the vote is out (1 Viewer)

[mariner]

But we still know what it contains - which is a lot more than we know about the other side (i.e. nothing). Not forgetting, of course, that nothing to replace EU membership would be the subject of discussion/ratification until after the referendum either (it can't be any other way).

We do know though, that most of the ex Eastern Europe MEPs have said that they will vote down any attempt by Britain to change Benefit and Immigration legislation!
So it looks like CMD's amendments will probably never be ratified!
This is why Government position is to keep all information under wraps!
The Great British Public are being conned, by the current Government, who honestly believed before CMD went cap in hand to them, that the EU gave a s**t for him and his amendments! Now they know the truth!
They Government are in a corner and will do absolutely anything to get out of it!

 

[Malcolm Bolt]

Unless your family had blonde hair and blue eyes you may not have even existed without USA, You would however been fluent in German.

Yet again I have obviously failed to communicate well. I am very glad that USA came to our aid. I will be forever grateful to them and fully recognise the terrible outcome for me and the whole of this country had they not entered the war when they did. (It was of course also in their own interest to do so.)

My concern is not that we have a "special relationship " it is more the nature of that relationship. We increasingly seem to jump to their tune because we are obliged to rather than because we freely choose to.

I suppose that could be as much to do with our various leaderships as anything else.

 

[GJH]

This is why Government position is to keep all information under wraps!

Another myth debunked time and again but which keeps being raised in the absence of anything concrete to say.

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[johnp10]

The vote is on 23rd June so why should there be any mad rush to decide or express an opinion when that date is 3 months away?
Where did I advocate staying in to reform from the inside (as opposed to saying it was one of the alternative choices?).
Where does my sentence which includes "blindfold and blinkers" mention either side?

Blindfold and blinkers....post #84 is an undisguised dig at Brexit.
I simply asked if it applied equally to both camps.
No answer.

"Where did I advocate staying in to reform from the inside"

Post #49.
You say there is
"An argument, therefore, for staying and building a viable alternative through careful alteration rather than demolition and uncertain redevelopment."

"I have no opinion, but my opinion is.....??"

 

[mariner]

Another myth debunked time and again but which keeps being raised in the absence of anything concrete to say.

So what about answering the bit about the EU Parliament voting down any British amendments?
Or are you like the Government, trying to keep that under wraps?

 

[mariner]

Another myth debunked time and again but which keeps being raised in the absence of anything concrete to say.

So what's all this about then?
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-02-23/brexit-seeking-ministers-denied-access-to-eu-papers/

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[johnp10]

@GJH,

With apologies to @mariner for nicking and annotating his post:

FACT
We do know though, that most of the ex Eastern Europe MEPs have said that they will vote down any attempt by Britain to change Benefit and Immigration legislation!

PROBABILITY
So it looks like CMD's amendments will probably never be ratified!

THE BLEEDIN OBVIOUS (SEE ABOVE)
The Great British Public are being conned, by the current Government, who honestly believed before CMD went cap in hand to them, that the EU gave a s**t for him and his amendments! Now they know the truth!
They Government are in a corner and will do absolutely anything to get out of it!

 

[busby]

Well one thing is certain you cannot believe any thing a politician says,,bit like reading The Sun Mail or Express. You can only go with your gut feeling. I know for one thing we produce many goods in our country that Europe will always want,,i.e. some of the best cars in the world,,,(probably our biggest export) Some excellent plant and machinery,,Whisky etc etc. One tier of government is enough for me. Don't forget The EU accounts have not been verified and signed off for many years,,their economy is iffy and always will be supporting Greece Italy and Portugal and when and it won't be very long before they admit TURKEY,,it can only get worse,,Its a lame duck economically. BUSBY.

 

[Khizzie]

Been an eye opener with the debate in or out ..but still need more time to digest info befor I can make a rational and considered vote .. Sorry buttons that your thread on the ehic card got highjacked ,but I think it has been included as part of the debate sensibly. Roy

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[DuxDeluxe]

you are forgetting the EU election ukip won more seats than any other party.

........which of course they repeated in the general election - the election that matters.

 

[Scout]

back to the o/p question.

I allways take out full insurance when travelling outside the uk, I just wish thoose comeing into the uk would do the same.

 

[mariner]

back to the o/p question.

I allways take out full insurance when travelling outside the uk, I just wish thoose comeing into the uk would do the same.

I cant get Insurance to cover me for the time I spend in Spain, not at any price!!

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[DuxDeluxe]

Well one thing is certain you cannot believe any thing a politician says,,bit like reading The Sun Mail or Express. You can only go with your gut feeling. I know for one thing we produce many goods in our country that Europe will always want,,i.e. some of the best cars in the world,,,(probably our biggest export) Some excellent plant and machinery,,Whisky etc etc. One tier of government is enough for me. Don't forget The EU accounts have not been verified and signed off for many years,,their economy is iffy and always will be supporting Greece Italy and Portugal and when and it won't be very long before they admit TURKEY,,it can only get worse,,Its a lame duck economically. BUSBY.

The issue that I have ( and your reference to the accounts serves as a reminder) is that we are an Anglo-Saxon nation in a quasi Napolenic organisation. Combine that with the fact that our system of governance is fundamentally honest (yes it is!) and that continental politics is inherently corrupt, then we will always have political issues with Europe. If anything, that makes me lean toward leaving.....

 

[gus-lopez]

I cant get Insurance to cover me for the time I spend in Spain, not at any price!!

Why not ? My wife gets a yearly travel policy for health . She obtained it in Uk , even though she disclosed she is a Spanish resident, for a trip o Australia last year. It has the benefit of also covering her for travelling back/forward to UK for work even though she has healthcare in both.
Failing that if you are here that long then you can pick up private healthcare for 50-60€/month for a couple depending on age.

 

[mariner]

Why not ? My wife gets a yearly travel policy for health . She obtained it in Uk , even though she disclosed she is a Spanish resident, for a trip o Australia last year. It has the benefit of also covering her for travelling back/forward to UK for work even though she has healthcare in both.
Failing that if you are here that long then you can pick up private healthcare for 50-60€/month for a couple depending on age.

Depending on age is the stumbling block!

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[GJH]

So what's all this about then?
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-02-23/brexit-seeking-ministers-denied-access-to-eu-papers/

How many times does this have to be debunked? It has always been the case that elected members (whether national or local) have no more right to information than the rest of us except that they have a right to information which allows them to do their jobs. In the case of ministers, doing their jobs means arguing for government policy not against it. In the run up to the referendum ministers have been given the freedom to argue against government policy when they are not engaged in doing their jobs. As they are not doing their jobs they have no right to that information. Bernard Jenkin (Brexit campaigner) accepted that when the question was discussed by the committee he chairs - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35700813.

Blindfold and blinkers....post #84 is an undisguised dig at Brexit.
I simply asked if it applied equally to both camps.
No answer.

Yes, it applies to both camps. I thought I had made that clear at #80 "I am at a table seeking answers from those across from me." (reference to a post on another thread a few days ago when I said those across from me were both sides).

"Where did I advocate staying in to reform from the inside"

Post #49.
You say there is
"An argument, therefore, for staying and building a viable alternative through careful alteration rather than demolition and uncertain redevelopment."

"I have no opinion, but my opinion is.....??"

That is presenting the fact that an argument can be made, not advocating it.

To look at it another way, what is the problem with somebody asking questions? The only problem I can see any campaign supporter having is that there is a danger that the answers received would not support their cause. Perhaps that is where the fear factor comes in for some of those who have made up their minds (on either side). Perhaps they fear that their side may not be able to actually justify its case and that is why they don't like questions.

 

[mariner]

In the case of ministers, doing their jobs means arguing for government policy not against it.

Exactly, ministers against the EU cannot use any information to support their case to leave, but the government can use all resources to support their case to stay.
The fact that this protocol was used in 1975 does not make it democratic!
Bernard Jenkins reminds me of Sir Humphrey Appleby, you can see his lips moving, he seems as though he is revealing all and being honest, but somehow you are sure you're being hoodwinked, by "Whitehall Speak"!!!!

 

[wiljoy]

I dont really think it matters anyway. It is always pot luck if the hospital you visit will honour them anyway.
We've given up with them, just more junk to carry. Both our
experiences in France ended up with them not taking the card so we thought why bother with them at all. Plus they have one less way of selling on your so called private information.

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[GJH]

Exactly, ministers against the EU cannot use any information to support their case to leave, but the government can use all resources to support their case to stay.
The fact that this protocol was used in 1975 does not make it democratic!
Bernard Jenkins reminds me of Sir Humphrey Appleby, you can see his lips moving, he seems as though he is revealing all and being honest, but somehow you are sure you're being hoodwinked, by "Whitehall Speak"!!!!

Not just 1975. It is a standard procedure that applies through government (national and local) and is well known by those ministers who pretended it was unfair.

Interesting that you put forward that Bernard Jenkin is hoodwinking people when he speaks. If that is the case then, presumably, it extends to his support of Brexit does it?

 

[Chris+Tracy]

No but it will reduce the flow until somewhere in the future we have proper border control (something this government has drastically cut back on) ab
nd get back to good old visas, customs check points and legislation that allows us to stop murderers, thiefs, scroungers and uncle tom cobley n all from simply walking in, taking the p**s and abusing our very generous country.

 

[Bailey58]

Does anybody seriously believe that any "facts" will emerge before the referendum that will persuade anybody to change their view one way or another? It will be a series of claim and counter claim, arguement and counter arguement in typical electioneering fashion until the day we vote. Cameron can't offer anything more than the feeble promises he's negotiated on benefits and closer ties and the claim that we can change Europe from the inside, something which no government in memory has achieved unless you include Maggie's rebate which Blair duly handed back. The Out campaigners equally can make no promises on a deal with the EU nor how it will affect the economy, jobs, immigration or a multitude of other imponderables whilst such negotiations go on. Staying in will mean more of the same, leaving will be more of a step into the unknown, an interesting step but hardly a giant leap for mankind to pinch an expression from elsewhere.

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[mariner]

Not just 1975. It is a standard procedure that applies through government (national and local) and is well known by those ministers who pretended it was unfair.

Interesting that you put forward that Bernard Jenkin is hoodwinking people when he speaks. If that is the case then, presumably, it extends to his support of Brexit does it?

"The cabinet secretary said the guidelines were based on those that were used in 1975, when the Labour cabinet was allowed to campaign on different sides in a referendum on whether to remain in the European Economic Community".

The Whitehall Civil Service works on a "Need To Know" system, when it comes to Ministers MPs and the Public. If they think that you don't need to know then you wont be told, so they don't lie, they just withhold information that they think you don't need to know!
It's called Hoodwinking, making you think you know, when you actually don't.

 

[GJH]

"The cabinet secretary said the guidelines were based on those that were used in 1975, when the Labour cabinet was allowed to campaign on different sides in a referendum on whether to remain in the European Economic Community".

The Whitehall Civil Service works on a "Need To Know" system, when it comes to Ministers MPs and the Public. If they think that you don't need to know then you wont be told, so they don't lie, they just withhold information that they think you don't need to know!
It's called Hoodwinking, making you think you know, when you actually don't.

And the 1975 guidelines were based on the standard procedure which I described.

The rest of the post might be true of the TV comedy Yes Minister but we are talking about the real world where we have a Freedom of Information Act. These days there is no point in withholding information when officers know full well that it has to be disclosed in response to a FoI request

Given the lack of comment I assume that you agree that Bernard Jenkin is hoodwinking people when he speaks in support of Brexit then

 

[GJH]

Does anybody seriously believe that any "facts" will emerge before the referendum that will persuade anybody to change their view one way or another? It will be a series of claim and counter claim, arguement and counter arguement in typical electioneering fashion until the day we vote. Cameron can't offer anything more than the feeble promises he's negotiated on benefits and closer ties and the claim that we can change Europe from the inside, something which no government in memory has achieved unless you include Maggie's rebate which Blair duly handed back. The Out campaigners equally can make no promises on a deal with the EU nor how it will affect the economy, jobs, immigration or a multitude of other imponderables whilst such negotiations go on. Staying in will mean more of the same, leaving will be more of a step into the unknown, an interesting step but hardly a giant leap for mankind to pinch an expression from elsewhere.

I hope you are wrong about the facts Rob as I would much rather decide on a factual basis rather than gut feeling. If the latter is the case, though, it may well come down to who one distrusts the least rather than trusts the most.

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[mariner]

Given the lack of comment I assume that you agree that Bernard Jenkin is hoodwinking people when he speaks in support of Brexit then

Where do you get the idea that he has spoken in support of Brexit?

 

[mariner]

The rest of the post might be true of the TV comedy Yes Minister but we are talking about the real world where we have a Freedom of Information Act. These days there is no point in withholding information when officers know full well that it has to be disclosed in response to a FoI request

Not true there are any number of reasons why information can be with held and not released, not even under the 30 year rule!

 

[mariner]

And the 1975 guidelines were based on the standard procedure which I described.

You didn't describe, it you just made an unsupported statement!

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[GJH]

Where do you get the idea that he has spoken in support of Brexit?

This article do? Plenty more to find if you use Google.

So, does your statement "Bernard Jenkins reminds me of Sir Humphrey Appleby, you can see his lips moving, he seems as though he is revealing all and being honest, but somehow you are sure you're being hoodwinked, by "Whitehall Speak"!!!!" include his Brexit support then?

 

[mariner]

This article do? Plenty more to find if you use Google.

My mistake, I was of course referring to Sir Jeremy Haywood!

 

[PeteH]

by electing the parliaments which agreed to them,

And thereby hangs the problem. We elected the BRITISH parliament(s) NONE of which gave us the option to "opt out". So we have until now NEVER had a chance to say we do (or dont) wish to be "European". ONLY now are we getting a chance to say what WE prefer, and not having "those who believe they know what's best for us". making the decisions.

Pete

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