what weight can i tow.... (1 Viewer)

[vwalan]

does look like towing your car is a no,no.
its a shame you and many others didnt know about the limits before purchase . many get caught out. seems like bad news for you .sorry.

 

[knokinonabit]

Out of interest I went outside and checked the plates under the bonnet.

Fiat plate : Nothing stamped on it regarding any weights as they only supply the cab end and nothing else, so they can't specify anything.

Auto-Trail plate : Same as Certificate of Conformity that I have already posted.

AlkoKober plate (chassis manufacturer) : Same as Auto-Trail plate.

So if everything is now kept on computer a roadside check would show my maximum towing capacity as 1000kg.

 

[pappajohn]

You could, of course, forget the trailer and tow the car on an A frame.

That'll start another debate, hard hats on everyone.

that'll work.....providing you dont board a cross channel ferry

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[sean n maggie]

i was told they are stopping the use of A frames in this country too,,thats why i bought the trailer....:Sad::Sad::Sad:

 

[tonka]

i was told they are stopping the use of A frames in this country too,,thats why i bought the trailer....:Sad::Sad::Sad:

OK... It's a crappy rainy day (well it is here) so here is the good news..
You can now go out looking for a NEW VAN with better towing capacity.. :thumb:

 

[pappajohn]

i was told they are stopping the use of A frames in this country too,,thats why i bought the trailer....:Sad::Sad::Sad:

i believe the law is changing in as much as over-run braking can only be used on a centre axle trailer which will exclude towing a car......but nobody yet knows if it will apply retrospectively or only from the laws implimentation date.

Centre axle means a number of axles (1, 2 or 3) within a certain distance of the centre of the trailer....currently 1mtr i think.

Hopefully it will not be retrospective.

The manufactures will probably do away with the sliding hitch/over-run brakes and use an electric over hydraulic actuator directly on the brake pedal so A frames can still be used legally.

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[PaulyP]

I have just been and checked mine, under the bonnet there are 2 plates one marked Fiat and one marked Alko.
Both have the same weights stamped on them:-
3500kgs
5500kgs
1- 1850kgs
2- 2120kgs

Will need at some point to get to a weigh bridge with MH and toad.
Dont know when i will get the time though, of the Aberdeen tonight the offshore tomorrow till tues, wed the toad goes for mot then thurs 2 nights at Overbrook caravan park at thornton le dale, then sat/sun at st helens caravan park outside oc scarborough, back home on mon19th appointments on tues/wed then off to Dave Newell on the friday for solar panel and air assist.
MH in for mot on the 27th and finally fly to Majorca on the 29th for a week.
MH insurance is due at the start of June so will need to sort it before the holiday.
Knackered just thinking about it.

 

[estcres]

OK... It's a crappy rainy day (well it is here) so here is the good news..
You can now go out looking for a NEW VAN with better towing capacity.. :thumb:

Crap day here in Dorset as well,

 

[Wildman]

No one has mentioned driving licence entitlements what you can tow depends on your licence plus the limits of the vehicle. No C1+E and you are in trouble anyway.

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[sean n maggie]

No one has mentioned driving licence entitlements what you can tow depends on your licence plus the limits of the vehicle. No C1+E and you are in trouble anyway.

i have C1+E now looking at a towing system / A frame from Armitages,,the system that fits to front on car......:Sad:

 

[tonka]

i have C1+E now looking at a towing system / A frame from Armitages,,the system that fits to front on car......:Sad:

Yes but be awara as mentioned above, changes to that are coming Oct/Nov this year.. !!! It's a minefield....oh:

 

[PaulyP]

i have C1+E now looking at a towing system / A frame from Armitages,,the system that fits to front on car......:Sad:

I got mine from Armitages, works well and easy to put on/off, bit on the heavy side though.

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[Larrynwin]

I got a down rated plate of 1120kg for my Micro Max trailer from Brian James trailers , this allowed me to tow my Peugeot 107 (800kg kerb weight) on the Micro Max (300kg kerb weight) total weight 1100kg .

 

[vwalan]

No one has mentioned driving licence entitlements what you can tow depends on your licence plus the limits of the vehicle. No C1+E and you are in trouble anyway.

b+e allows a greater trainweight than a c1+e
b+e allows any upto 3,500kg gvw vehicle to pull any weight trailer so long as the train weight of the towing vehicle isnt exceeded .
pre97 licence.
could be 11-12 ton trainweight .

 

[cmcardle75]

just to confuse you even more

If the plate on the trailer shows more than 1120kg you cant even tow the trailer without a load.

You could get a 1500kg trailer downrated to 1120kg by the manufacturer....its only a phone call away and they will send a new modified plate but once the car is loaded it cant exceed 1120kg or its classed as overweight.

This is not necessary. It is actual weight that has to be under the trainweight, not the total of all the MAMs making up the vehicle. It is perfectly safe, legal and common to have a 3500kg MAM trailer pulled behind a large family car, provided that the actual weight of the trailer, car and load doesn't result in the GTW being exceeded.

Basically, the following must all be explicitly followed:

1. Car + Load must be below car MAM
2. Trailer + Load must be below trailer MAM.
3. Car + Trailer + Loads must be below car GTW.
4. Trailer nose weight must be below that specified on the trailer connector.
5. Trailer nose weight must be below that specified for the car.
6. If unbraked, trailer and load weight must be below half car kerb weight.

Then, this is not strictly a legal requirement, but is sensible and might be prosecuted under general safety laws.

7. Do not exceed the car manufacturer's recommended maximum towing limit.
8. Do not tow a heavier vehicle behind a lighter one unless you have a towing system designed for it, such as a 5th wheel arrangement.

There is absolutely no requirement for car MAM + trailer MAM to be below car GTW. There are few reasons to de-rate a trailer of 3500kg or less.

The above doesn't include licence restrictions which is a whole different can of worms.

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[sean n maggie]

This is not necessary. It is actual weight that has to be under the trainweight, not the total of all the MAMs making up the vehicle. It is perfectly safe, legal and common to have a 3500kg MAM trailer pulled behind a large family car, provided that the actual weight of the trailer, car and load doesn't result in the GTW being exceeded.

Basically, the following must all be explicitly followed:

1. Car + Load must be below car MAM
2. Trailer + Load must be below trailer MAM.
3. Car + Trailer + Loads must be below car GTW.
4. Trailer nose weight must be below that specified on the trailer connector.
5. Trailer nose weight must be below that specified for the car.
6. If unbraked, trailer and load weight must be below half car kerb weight.

Then, this is not strictly a legal requirement, but is sensible and might be prosecuted under general safety laws.

7. Do not exceed the car manufacturer's recommended maximum towing limit.
8. Do not tow a heavier vehicle behind a lighter one unless you have a towing system designed for it, such as a 5th wheel arrangement.

There is absolutely no requirement for car MAM + trailer MAM to be below car GTW. There are few reasons to de-rate a trailer of 3500kg or less.

The above doesn't include licence restrictions which is a whole different can of worms.

so as long as my MH, trailer with car on doesnt ecxeed my GTW, it is alright to tow ?

 

[cmcardle75]

so as long as my MH, trailer with car on doesnt ecxeed my GTW, it is alright to tow ?

Provided you also comply with all the other restrictions.

This list does NOT include licence restrictions, which can be much more severe. For example, if you have a B licence only, the total of car and trailer MAM must not exceed 3500kg, unless the trailer is 750kg or under. This is done on MAM, NOT actual weight. This would mean that a fully loaded car with 2300kg MAM and 3500kg GTW towing a 1300kg MAM trailer weighing only 1100kg would be legal for B+E, but illegal for B, even though it weighs only 3400kg.

 

[sean n maggie]

Provided you also comply with all the other restrictions.

This list does NOT include licence restrictions, which can be much more severe. For example, if you have a B licence only, the total of car and trailer MAM must not exceed 3500kg, unless the trailer is 750kg or under. This is done on MAM, NOT actual weight. This would mean that a fully loaded car with 2300kg MAM and 3500kg GTW towing a 1300kg MAM trailer weighing only 1100kg would be legal for B+E, but illegal for B, even though it weighs only 3400kg.

my licence is for C1+E so should be ok there,,,,fingers crossed when i hit the weigh bridge on monday......:Sad:

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[vwalan]

but you will be driving on the b+e of your licence c1+e is for two vehicles over 3,500kg gvw.

 

[sean n maggie]

but you will be driving on the b+e of your licence c1+e is for two vehicles over 3,500kg gvw.

So my licence isnt a problem,,just checked on GOV.UK,,,its all down to the GTW now.....

 

[vwalan]

the sticker in your wardrobe holds the secret. if you didnt have that then it would be down to the plate under the bonnet.
are you lucky no one as removed that sticker? or not ?

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[sdc77]

But the B element is that the towing vehicle is no more than 3500kg..
Mine and others is over 3500kg mam so I would need c1e.. Which allows me a total weight of up to 12000kg.. Although my licence has the 107 condition with c1e.. Which restricts me to 8750kg (I think) max train weight
(trailer can't weigh more than towing vehicle)

 

[cmcardle75]

So my licence isnt a problem,,just checked on GOV.UK,,,its all down to the GTW now.....

Actually you may well be OK. The smart car is about 800kg which includes a (admittedly quite svelte) driver, so you would have about 400kg left for the trailer before you need to dip into the motorhome weight and start removing contents.

A car trailer for a smartcar could be found around the 400kg mark, I would think. A full size one suitable for normal cars is around 600kg.

 

[vwalan]

pre 97 b+e allows vehicles 3,500kg gvw pulling any weight trailer as long as the train weight of towing vehicle isnt broken .
c1+e orc1 is for vehicles over 3,500kg gvw they have the 8.250 trainweight restriction .

i build tow vehicles from 7,500kg gvw and down plate to 3,500kg gvw specially to get this .
but then you have a fifth wheel as a hitch .
pre 97 licences kept their old categories .the weight ratio doesnt count on pre 97 licences .
i pull a trailer that could be twice as heavy as the tow unit .

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[pappajohn]

This is not necessary. It is actual weight that has to be under the trainweight, not the total of all the MAMs making up the vehicle. It is perfectly safe, legal and common to have a 3500kg MAM trailer pulled behind a large family car, provided that the actual weight of the trailer, car and load doesn't result in the GTW being exceeded.

Basically, the following must all be explicitly followed:

1. Car + Load must be below car MAM
2. Trailer + Load must be below trailer MAM.
3. Car + Trailer + Loads must be below car GTW.
4. Trailer nose weight must be below that specified on the trailer connector.
5. Trailer nose weight must be below that specified for the car.
6. If unbraked, trailer and load weight must be below half car kerb weight.

Then, this is not strictly a legal requirement, but is sensible and might be prosecuted under general safety laws.

7. Do not exceed the car manufacturer's recommended maximum towing limit.
8. Do not tow a heavier vehicle behind a lighter one unless you have a towing system designed for it, such as a 5th wheel arrangement.

There is absolutely no requirement for car MAM + trailer MAM to be below car GTW. There are few reasons to de-rate a trailer of 3500kg or less.

The above doesn't include licence restrictions which is a whole different can of worms.

agreed, individual gross weights have no bearing on the train weight but if the van is loaded to its gross weight then the trailer cannot weigh more, or be plated higher, than 1120kg....loaded or unloaded.

For VOSA purposes the trailers gross weight is the only consideration, whether its carrying a load or not

Van plus trailer whether loaded or not = train weight....train weight is an absolute limit.

I have no knowledge of ANY family car (large 4 x 4 excluded) with a train capable of a 3500kg trailer.

 

[cmcardle75]

agreed, individual gross weights have no bearing on the train weight but if the van is loaded to its gross weight then the trailer cannot weigh more, or be plated higher, than 1120kg....loaded or unloaded.

For VOSA purposes the trailers gross weight is the only consideration, whether its carrying a load or not

Van plus trailer whether loaded or not = train weight....train weight is an absolute limit.

I have no knowledge of ANY family car (large 4 x 4 excluded) with a train capable of a 3500kg trailer.

Incorrect. The MAM of the trailer matters for licence purposes. However, for vehicle purposes, it is the actual weight that counts towards the GTW. In fact, almost all family cars can legally tow a 3500kg car transporter, provided there is no car on it.

 

[pappajohn]

Incorrect. The MAM of the trailer matters for licence purposes. However, for vehicle purposes, it is the actual weight that counts towards the GTW. In fact, [HI]almost all family cars can legally tow a 3500kg car transporter, provided there is no car on it.[/HI]

i have a ride on mower more than capable of towing an unladen 3500kg ifor williams general purpose trailer.....it only weighs 640kg unladen...it means nothing.

I'll stick to my interpretation as i know that is fully legal.

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[estcres]

Can I offer some advice for when you visit the weighbridge on Monday.

Ensure the van is loaded with everything you would normally take when going away for a break, including fuel and the number of people you are going to carry, IE adults and children.

This should then give you the actual weight of the vehicle when travelling. In your case this should not exceed 3500Kg,

You will need the Front Axle Weight, this should not exceed 1850Kg

You will need the Rear Axle Weight, this should not exceed 2000Kg.

You will also need the total weight of your trailer loaded with the Smart car,

Add the Total weight of the Trailer to the Total weight of the van and this should not exceed 4620Kg. GTW of your van

If the GTW is exceeded, you will have to remove some of the vans load. Until your GTW is equal to 4620Kg.

This towing lark is a real minefield.

 

[sdc77]

I posted this the other day.. But here it is again.. B+be licence info
Obviously the c1e licence is required for a towing vehicle with a mam over 3500kg

 

[cmcardle75]

Ensure the van is loaded with everything you would normally take when going away for a break, including fuel and the number of people you are going to carry, IE adults and children.

An excellent idea. It is also important to make sure they are loaded in the normal places. I.e. put the passengers in their normal seats and the habitation load where it normally lives. This won't affect the MAM, but could have a major impact on the axle loads. This is particularly important for bikes on rear mounted carriers. These put significantly more than their weight on the rear axle and are a common cause of exceeding the rear axle load.

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