what vehicle

Discussion in 'Fifth Wheelers' started by sean, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. sean

    sean Deleted User

    im thinking about buying a 5th wheel caravan next year . first i would like to get a vehicle suitable to tow it . thinking of getting a toyota hilux invinsible which is 3ltr turbo diesel . a friend says a nissan navaro is a lot cheaper to buy and will do the job and you can even have an engine chip upgrade . another friend says get a mitsubishi l200 . is 3ltr better than 2.5 . could someone with experience ie been there done that offer me some advice . the 5th wheel trailer would be an amerilite i think about 24 ft . im sure this question has been asked many times but im new to this . thanks sean
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2009
  2. zaskar

    zaskar Funster

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    You first need to decide which 5ver you want. There are very few which will be suitable for a Euro pick up to tow, and even then, from my limited experience so far, I would sugest that if you are planning major milage or a European tour, you should seriously consider a Yank pickup. The engine wont have to work as hard and you will get a good a consumption figure (depending on 5ver size and driving style). I got 14.6mpg at a steady 58mph when we bought our KountryLite back from Scotland to Cheshire. Having said that, 1. my engine is still very tight with just 10K on the clock
    2. My 08 D40 Euro 4 spec engine is not as economical as the earlier Euro 3 spec engine as its pretty strangled due to emissions.
    3. My chip wasn't set up on the best setting for Auto Navs. I've since re-set it myself and there is already a definate improvement in consumption.

    There is NO one stop answer for ALL scenarios and contrary so what some yank tug owners on here will blart about on and on, the Navara, or other Euro pick up CAN be a suitable tow vehicle given the correct driving style and correct size of 5ver.
    It's up to you.
    If you're a steady driver and will be happy with one of the smaller 5vers, a Euro will do.
    If you want one of the larger 5vers, or think it's cool to be able to "out drag a Porsce", buy a Yank tug.
    HTH
    The reason I stuck with a Navara (which incidentally, has the best power of all the comparable Euro pick ups) was that I knew my milage would be limited and given that scenario, was prepared to give a Nav a chance as i didn't want a yank pick up as an everyday vehicle.
     
  3. Jim

    Jim Ringleader

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    Hi Sean, we have a number of 5th wheeler Funsters, so I'm sure you'll get your answer soon. Meanwhile welcome to the Fun:thumb:
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  4. sean

    sean Deleted User

    thanks for the reply i would be doing uk miles mainly from north shropshire to angelsey . have also look at a kountry lite as a 5th wheeler regards sean
     
  5. zaskar

    zaskar Funster

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    Having now re read (properly!:Doh:) your first post, i see that you were looking at an Amerilite.
    Give the size/weight of these rigs (comparatively lightweight), I would say that the Nav or similar Euro would easily haul that rig, tho' I would definately recomend a chip for extra muscle on the hills and better fuel consumption.
    If you decide to chip, be carefull which one you use. A lot (if not most) of the available chips are prone to throw the Nav into limp mode because they plug into the fuel pressure sensor on the end of the fuel rail.
    By far the most reliable chip (so far!) is the D.T.E systems chip which plugs onto each individual injector and it is reconed that this is what is stopping the engine going into limp mode. (more info on Nissan Navara Forum and Blog ).
    I currently have a KountryLite and without doubt, you really know the engine is working, even in chipped form. It is (IMHO) the largest rig which could sensibly be towed by a Euro tho given a sensible driving style, it copes well. Yes, it's working, but thats what it's there for, so long as you not thrashing the backside of it to keep up sensible progress and again (IMHO) you do not need to thrash a chipped D40 to do just that.
     
  6. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

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    Hello and welcome to the forum,
    I agree with all that has been said so far, the one thing that I would do is to put a tape measure across the width of the amerilite, include such things as any awnings, then refer to this web site

    NTTA - Trailer Law - Trailer Maximum Dimensions

    And then decide if you are legal or not.

    European vs US< matter of choice IMHO.

    Rob
     
  7. zaskar

    zaskar Funster

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    Do you have to?
    Supposedly, the max allowable UK width of RV's either has been, or is about to be, re-written stating that awnigs do not have to be included in the width.

    Does the same apply to 5ver width measurment?

    Note that the issue I'm asking about here, is purely about the inclusion (or not) of awnings in trailer/5ver width measurments.
    I realise that there are different allowable widths for RV's and trailers/5vers.
     
  8. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Hi Zazkar

    With these restrcitions ..

    Towing vehicle up to 3500kg GVW
    Length (excluding the coupling and drawbar) 7.0 m
    Width Maximum 2.3 m

    Seems a bit academic .. there can't be many 5ers with European pick-ups that are 'legal'

    or do 5ers not count as 'trailers' ?

    jim
     
  9. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi sean i use a mitsubishi canter 6.2 ton . i know the pic shows my vw lt 50 but i like the pic. have another on my profile. think weight of trailer ,then train of tow truck .whats the weight of truck .how much is the pin weight.if the pin weight is too heavy you need a bigger truck. might be an idea to make enquiries on the weights ,come back to us with figures it helps to get it right also some use a goose neck hitch some similer to a normal 5th wheel . do your home work ,its too late if you get it wrong. have fun, we do . cheers alan
     
  10. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi jim .mine is . my trailer is 7.6 but i use a truck over 3.500 so if nec. can pull wider trailers. width length most seem to flaunt the rules it will happen that one day vosa go to town n clamp down. there.l be some tears then i think.
     
  11. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

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    I agree Alan, VOSA will eventually get round to having a purge on this sort of thing, it is an inevitability as there is revenue to be had in the form of fines :Angry::Angry:

    It will be, for all the wrong reasons I hasten to add, interesting to see how one of these "illegal" units fare when Insurance companies start considering claims against their insurance policies.

    One of the reasons why I did all I can to make sure that I am legal.:BigGrin:

    Rob
     
  12. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

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    Hi Jim

    Iwas under the distinct impression that as the 5'er is not motorised then it is trailing behind the tow vehicle, therefore it must be a trailer. Maybe I am missing the point here but somehow I don't think so. In which case the width as you say is academic, 7 metres by my reckoning is about 22ft 9 ins. Oops, guess they didn't see that one coming.

    Rob
     
  13. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    We looked at 5er's a few years ago.

    we were told by all the dealers bar one that our 2.5 hilux invincible isnt powerful enough.....they hadnt brought out the 3ltr then.

    the only dealer that said 'yes..just' was niche marketing and that was for the amerilite, 26ft and around 2 ton.

    the 3 ltr hilux will also be 'chip-able'

    for the cost of a new hilux 3ltr you could buy something like a 1 or 2 year old dodge ram or a Ford F250/350 and have the 5th wheel plate and electrics done in the price:thumb:
     
  14. matamoros

    matamoros Funster

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    5er is a semi trailer not A frame, different beast.Regarding awnings etc I would think it debatable whether they are permananently attached which I believe is the criteria for being included in the overall width.
    I tow a Calder Leisure Ultralite low profile with a Mazda BT50 2.5 litre, 153 bhp engine and have been round Spain and France over the winter averaging about 19 mpg whilst towing, 31mpg on urban running.I have recently changed the tyres to a slightly lower profile but higher load rating because of problems obtaining american sizes in Europe and the rig seems to pull better and use less fuel but I have not really done enough miles in different conditions to be sure.
    As far as performance goes, when towing at near the maximum train weight for any commercial vehicle, which after all is what a pickup is, you will have to use the gears and expect to slow down when climbing hills. I have just moved the rig from Manchester to Durham and came up Windy Hill on the M62 at 45 mph in 3rd gear keeping the revs to 2400 which is the maximum torque point, could have gone faster by putting the pedal down but IMO this will use a lot of fuel and only save seconds on the journey.I have yet to fuel up after this trip but from past experience I think over 20 mpg has been achieved, the weather was good with little wind.
    Overall I have been very pleased with the Mazda and Ultralite combination, the Ultralite by the way has a max weight of 3450kilo which makes it out of scope for MOT regs which is another issue that has been debated on this forum
     
  15. tink

    tink Read Only Funster

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    Hi Sean welcome to the Fun, I like Alan have gone the light commercial route though not as big as Alan's,started pulling my Sun valley 26' with a L200 did one trip with it from Derbyshire to New Forest that was enough got a 05 Dbl cab Transit now spot on for the job.I know a Transit doesn't suite everybody for every day transport but as well as being a truck driver we also run a smallholding so it doubles up as work horse,still got L200 though if you really really want one,only keep it in case I need to recover myself if Transit goes sick. With the Transit I have no fears of Vosa getting their tape measure out ,I was having a conversation with Alan about this the other day both of us coming from a trucking back ground now just what it's like when Vosa get their teeth into you & impound your vehicle,about 15 years ago before the U.K adopted euro truck measurements they impounded a Dutch wagon & drag at Michael Wood services for being over U.K length the only way they could move it was to send a shorter truck over from Holland,but I don't want to put you off like Alan says have fun we do,just do your home work first & dont believe everything these people selling 5vers tell you about what will pull what:Wink::thumb:
     
  16. Ant&Debs

    Ant&Debs Read Only Funster

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    Hi vwalan

    Just a quickie, regarding your canter, did you buy it just as a chassis \Cab then have it converted?

    Regards Tony:thumb:
     
  17. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi tony, i bought it as a tipper . it was our local grave diggers truck. i took the tipping gear off shortened the chassis .made a second chassis rail to mount the 5th wheel ,mudguards etc. respray .all on my front lawn. just bought another trailer bit bigger pulled by a transit ,pick it up nx week. the dearest bit is the change from hydrolics to air for the trailer. a small converter valve goes in brake lines . new air tanks,pressure switches etc cost about 3 grand to convert. not difficult really.
     
  18. zaskar

    zaskar Funster

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    Photo's please!:thumb::BigGrin:
     
  19. Ant&Debs

    Ant&Debs Read Only Funster

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    Cheers vwalan

    Many thanks for the info:thumb:
     
  20. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    i only fix vehicles .putting photos on is beyond me. i dont even have a diggy camera cept on phone. there is a pic of the mitzy on my profile page.i had just been pulled out of a river n my mates thought it incredibly funny . i do now. nice pic though . prefer my avator pic 3,800 mtr up in the atlas, beautifull.
     
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